Let's talk race balance...

[Lasci]

I rather dislike the god-like and garbage tier terminology for a game like this, since it frankly rather overstates the effect racial abilities have on the majority of builds. There are real differences to discuss but this isn't a Street Fighter II Akuma vs. Cammy scenario. Hell, it's not even O. Sagat vs Cammy.

 

This. I don't think they get it.

[dukefx]

Next thread will about which dye color is better... I think it's 1. red, 2. dark green, 3. light gray, 4. everything else, because *insert some BS about pixels, visibility and stuff here*

Arguing about that would be just as silly. I pick what I like or pick something that has +stat for what I want to pump if I feel like power gaming.

[mazeltov]

The shining point of Human race ablity is that once your endurance is below 50% and the ability is triggered, then when you are healed to above 50%, the buff is still there, not like Fire or Nature godlike, whom need to stay under 50% endurance to get bonuses.

 

Oh wow you're right. That does redeem it a bit, since you can attack your own humans in order to trigger the buff, then immediately heal them up with spells, potions etc. and they keep the buff for a long time. This makes it controllable and reliable, and effect itself is quite nice.

 

Relying on enemies to trigger the ability is still out of the question in my opinion, though. Another one for the abusive gimmick pile.

[Judicator]

Fire Godlike seems counter-intuitive for tanks. If you let your tank get to >50% Endurance then you're doing something wrong. Still, Godlike are all pretty good seeing as helmets in PoE are ass.

[gkathellar]

Fire Godlike seems counter-intuitive for tanks. If you let your tank get to >50% Endurance then you're doing something wrong. Still, Godlike are all pretty good seeing as helmets in PoE are ass.

 

wut

 

Helmets have attribute bonuses. Especially at early levels (i.e. when godlike really should shine) that's very useful.

[termokanden]

I'm glad to see a few people acknowledge that the moon godlike racial is quite good. I've read that the heal doesn't matter because "if you're getting hit that much, you're doing something wrong". Well, it happens, and I know for a fact that it saved my butt a few times already, for example in the lighthouse fights.

[Judicator]

 

Fire Godlike seems counter-intuitive for tanks. If you let your tank get to >50% Endurance then you're doing something wrong. Still, Godlike are all pretty good seeing as helmets in PoE are ass.

 

wut

 

Helmets have attribute bonuses. Especially at early levels (i.e. when godlike really should shine) that's very useful.

 

Yeah, but plenty of other items add attribute bonuses and they don't stack.

[Duncan]

Some buffs to dwarves wouldn't be bad. I was on the verge of making a dwarf but humans even though they aren't the best seemed much better overall. Just throwing it out there

(At least make one sub dwarf race competitive)

[Urthor]

The question is, for main tank/off tank, what's better.  Wild Orlan or Moon Godlike?

 

Like Will attacks from the enemy don't seem common at all relatively speaking, whilst the moon Godlike's proc, IS extremely common on the harder difficulties relatively speaking.  

 

 

Are you seeing Will attacks vs Spirits?  The Adra Dragon fight?  When are they coming up.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Urthor

[Hellraiser789]

So according to the wiki Nature Godlike get a boost to Might (+3), Constitution (+2), and Dexterity (+2) when below 50% Endurance. So here's the overall bonuses from that:

 

+3 Might

• +9% Damage
• +9% Healing
• +6 Fortitude

 

+2 Constitution

• +6% Health
• +6% Endurance
• +4 Fortitude

+2 Dexterity

• +6% Action Speed
• +4 Reflex

Resulting in a total boost of 

 

+9% Damage

+9% Healing

 

+6% Health

+6% Endurance

 

+6% Action Speed

 

+10 Fortitude

+4 Reflex

 

Are these bonuses just so small that they render the ability useless? I would think that a 7-point boost to attributes would have more of an effect than that...Are they really that terrible?

Edited April 3, 2015 by Hellraiser789

[dunehunter]

 

So according to the wiki Nature Godlike get a boost to Might (+3), Constitution (+2), and Dexterity (+2) when below 50% Endurance. So here's the overall bonuses from that:

 

+3 Might

• +9% Damage
• +9% Healing
• +6 Fortitude

 

+2 Constitution

• +6% Health
• +6% Endurance
• +4 Fortitude

+2 Dexterity

• +6% Action Speed
• +4 Reflex

Resulting in a total boost of 

 

+9% Damage

+9% Healing

 

+6% Health

+6% Endurance

 

+6% Action Speed

 

+10 Fortitude

+4 Reflex

 

Are these bonuses just so small that they render the ability useless? I would think that a 7-point boost to attributes would have more of an effect than that...Are they really that terrible?

 

 

Compare that to humans, they get +7 Accuracy, x 1.15 Damage from fighting spirit, and they can use helmet! Not to mention fighting spirit last even your endurance is healed to over 50%.

Edited April 3, 2015 by dunehunter

[Judicator]

They're not, it's just that you have to be bellow 50% Endurance to trigger it.

[dunehunter]

They're not, it's just that you have to be bellow 50% Endurance to trigger it.

 

What I mean is if your endurance is below 50%, your fighting spirit is triggered, but then if you get a heal, you still keep the buff.

[Hellraiser789]

They're not, it's just that you have to be bellow 50% Endurance to trigger it.

 

Okay, so if I am willing to go below 50% Endurance and accept that its going to happen, its fine? I was thinking a Nature Godlike Barbarian and combining the stat increase with Blooded. Sure, maybe a Fire Godlike might be better (and I plan to make a Fire Godlike Barbarian too at some point), but I just thought I'd try it out. Also, if its really that extreme where you either don't get hurt or you are already dead at 50% Endurance anyway, that's a bit ridiculous to me and needs to be tweaked. Although I guess what people are saying is that racial abilities arent everything to a class and that it shouldnt be built around those abilities? I dont know - I like the idea of the Nature Godlike Barbarian - He rages in combat and after he takes a certain amount of damage, his rage deepens, increasing his attributes accordingly as his body tries to protect itself. Kinda like an automatic berserk mode. Probably still going to play it, just wondering how it'll turn out and how useful/effective these racial abilities actually are. 

[Odd Hermit]

 

They're not, it's just that you have to be bellow 50% Endurance to trigger it.

 

Okay, so if I am willing to go below 50% Endurance and accept that its going to happen, its fine? I was thinking a Nature Godlike Barbarian and combining the stat increase with Blooded. Sure, maybe a Fire Godlike might be better (and I plan to make a Fire Godlike Barbarian too at some point), but I just thought I'd try it out. Also, if its really that extreme where you either don't get hurt or you are already dead at 50% Endurance anyway, that's a bit ridiculous to me and needs to be tweaked. Although I guess what people are saying is that racial abilities arent everything to a class and that it shouldnt be built around those abilities? I dont know - I like the idea of the Nature Godlike Barbarian - He rages in combat and after he takes a certain amount of damage, his rage deepens, increasing his attributes accordingly as his body tries to protect itself. Kinda like an automatic berserk mode. Probably still going to play it, just wondering how it'll turn out and how useful/effective these racial abilities actually are. 

 

 

Depends on difficulty setting. And it depends on whether you're a damage build or a tanky build.

 

For damage builds, on harder difficulty, intentionally staying at low endurance is a terrible idea. The bonuses from race are minor, and the risk of getting KOed is high. High risk, low reward = bad. You will want to be healing up and keeping strong defensive buffs on your party.

 

If you want to RP it, I'd play on normal difficult where it could be played that way - it's very far from optimal but normal is reasonably easy.

[Hellraiser789]

 

 

They're not, it's just that you have to be bellow 50% Endurance to trigger it.

 

Okay, so if I am willing to go below 50% Endurance and accept that its going to happen, its fine? I was thinking a Nature Godlike Barbarian and combining the stat increase with Blooded. Sure, maybe a Fire Godlike might be better (and I plan to make a Fire Godlike Barbarian too at some point), but I just thought I'd try it out. Also, if its really that extreme where you either don't get hurt or you are already dead at 50% Endurance anyway, that's a bit ridiculous to me and needs to be tweaked. Although I guess what people are saying is that racial abilities arent everything to a class and that it shouldnt be built around those abilities? I dont know - I like the idea of the Nature Godlike Barbarian - He rages in combat and after he takes a certain amount of damage, his rage deepens, increasing his attributes accordingly as his body tries to protect itself. Kinda like an automatic berserk mode. Probably still going to play it, just wondering how it'll turn out and how useful/effective these racial abilities actually are. 

 

 

Depends on difficulty setting. And it depends on whether you're a damage build or a tanky build.

 

For damage builds, on harder difficulty, intentionally staying at low endurance is a terrible idea. The bonuses from race are minor, and the risk of getting KOed is high. High risk, low reward = bad. You will want to be healing up and keeping strong defensive buffs on your party.

 

If you want to RP it, I'd play on normal difficult where it could be played that way - it's very far from optimal but normal is reasonably easy.

 

 

Okay cool. Probably going to play a lot more normal anyway - save my hard playthroughs for my more serious builds that I put more thought into (combat & stat-wise, rather than RP-wise). Thanks for the info!

[Zaruthustran]

What about the RP differences between the races? I'm talking in-game RP, here: dialogue and quest options.

 

I'm curious if Godlike pays off with some unique storylines. I think I've settled on a Cipher for my main, and Wood Elf seems like the best Cipher race... but it sure seems like the weird Godlike must have some kind of major story payoff, given the hints of what I've seen so far. Which is not far at all: just the first town, with the tree--which I've reachd with over a dozen characters (and counting). What can I say, I like experimenting with characters.

[Hellraiser789]

What about the RP differences between the races? I'm talking in-game RP, here: dialogue and quest options.

 

I'm curious if Godlike pays off with some unique storylines. I think I've settled on a Cipher for my main, and Wood Elf seems like the best Cipher race... but it sure seems like the weird Godlike must have some kind of major story payoff, given the hints of what I've seen so far. Which is not far at all: just the first town, with the tree--which I've reachd with over a dozen characters (and counting). What can I say, I like experimenting with characters.

 

Lol I do the same thing - start like 50 games until I find that one character I want to complete the game with. I'm curious as well, but from what i've heard there isn't much reactivity to your race, even if you're a godlike. I could be wrong, of course, but from what I've heard so far there isnt much. (I could be completely wrong though, anybody whos gotten decently far in the game want to throw out their experiences?)

[Daemonjax]

The biggest problem I have with race balance is how not every race/sex/subrace/headtype combo has a portrait.  Particularly Godlikes, which really sucks because the race is unique enough to prevent the possibility of finding a suitable portrait online somewhere.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Daemonjax

[PIP-Clownboy]

The biggest problem I have with race balance is how not every race/sex/subrace/headtype combo has a portrait.  Particularly Godlikes, which really sucks because the race is unique enough to prevent the possibility of finding a suitable portrait online somewhere.

 

Death godlikes in dire need of more portraits.

[Daemonjax]

 

The biggest problem I have with race balance is how not every race/sex/subrace/headtype combo has a portrait.  Particularly Godlikes, which really sucks because the race is unique enough to prevent the possibility of finding a suitable portrait online somewhere.

 

Death godlikes in dire need of more portraits.

 

 

Yeah, whatever # of hours work they put into some of the death godlike headtypes were wasted development time because there's no portrait for them.  Why would anyone pick that headtype if they'd then have to pick a mismatched portrait.  It's absurd.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Daemonjax

[gkathellar]

It's mostly terrible because you have to be at less than 50% Endurance.

[lionspaw]

Hearth Orlan's racial is strictly worse than Aumaua's might bonus for DPS. 

 

Hearth Orlan's Racial translate to a 2.5% increase in damage in the ideal situation and a 50% critical modifier. If you have some talents or skills that increase the critical modifier to 100%, then it's a 5% damage increase. 

 

+3 might is 9% damage increase flat, so Aumaua's are strictly better than Hearth Orlan's for DPS. 

 

For ranged DPS, Wood Elf's racial beats out Aumaua's. The math is also pretty trivial in common situations. 

 

For melee DPS, I think Aumaua's are the best race, because they also beat Death Godlikes's racial (The Death Godline racial is basically 5% damage increase in ideal situation, which is still less than 2 Might). 

 

The only other potential is Boreal Dwarves, but it's hard to valuate their accuracy racial without completing the game. I also prefer being consistently better than stomping two specific types of creatures and slightly worse at everything else. 

[Kelstrom]

Terrible or not if you are a melee class you will get bellow 50%. For instance if you are a barb or rogue you get bellow 50% almost every fight. Then IMO the human bonuses are the best - the accuracy is a very rare modifier.

[PIP-Clownboy]

Terrible or not if you are a melee class you will get bellow 50%. For instance if you are a barb or rogue you get bellow 50% almost every fight. Then IMO the human bonuses are the best - the accuracy is a very rare modifier.

 

Nope. My tanks/CC keeps my Barb and Rogues above 50% most of the time even on POTD. Besides, that Human bonus does not last very long at all. For a Barb, something Orlan/Death will most likely be used in the majority of encounters due to carnage.