Controversial Limerick Discussion

[lordgarius73]

To anyone offended by the censorship like me here is a mod that restores the text:

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity/mods/28/?

 

Better yet, it also gives you the option to have both the original text and the new limerick. Whoever made this mod is a hero.

 

You can't keep a game censored on PC no matter how many people you get to whine about it.

That was quick!  

[deuxhero]

 

I also, again, remind everyone that even if this was 100% Firedorn's choice, contacting him and implementing this got priority over literally every single bug that remains in the game

 

Dude, sending some emails doesn't take that long. Besides who's to say it was the programmers that did it? Maybe it was a PR guy.

 

 

Remember how they said it was moved to a different memorial spot because of issues with just changing it?

 

That's not something that just takes a PR guy.

 

Sawyer took time off from balancing (or whatever else he would do post release) AND from the other Obsidian execs to discuss it. Literally anything else Sawyer and any executives (we already know Urquhart AT THE BARE MINIMUM had to write the PR line) he discussed this with spent doing would have been a better use of time.

Edited April 4, 2015 by deuxhero

[Kveldulf]

New Internet Word -

 

Firedorn  - A person, act or thing inadvertently attracting bigotry by being perceived as a bigoted response or too insensitive.

 

[Firedorning, Firedorned]

Edited April 4, 2015 by Kveldulf

[Moirnelithe]

 is it dead yet?

[ChipMHazard]

 

One thing I dont understand is them saying officially that this was not vetted before (heavily implied it should have been), but would still allow it to stay anyway. This really makes no sense. Official confirmation from Obsidian further clearing this would be nice, especially now that Firedorn gave his 2 cents so there is no need to protect him or his choice (as he made it clear by now).

Who knows, probably slipped through the cracks.  I thought for sure they would have asked it to be changed prior to release.

 

 

Seems likely that they simply didn't think it was offensive enough to warrant a change or otherwise not in line with the tone they wanted. Obviously they were mistaken. A sad way to learn such a lesson. 

[ednanf]

Are we done yet?

No, this is internet circlejerk material for months

[DavidHansen]

 

They said that your content 'failed their vetting process'. How do you reconcile that? I struggle a lot to reconcile it myself. Why would they even say that if it meant nothing in terms of removing it?

It might suggest Obsidian just didn't notice it could be controversial. Which is a fail in their vetting process, because the current discussion is bad PR & hurting the game - no matter what specific opinion you might have on the subject.

 

 

"It's come to our attention that a piece of backer-created content has made it into Pillars of Eternity that was not vetted. "

 

"Prior to release, we worked with many of our backers to iterate on content they asked to be put into the game that didn't strike the right tone." 

 

"It is completely the backer's choice whether they want to include the text they originally submitted or whether they want to change it"

 

Is there any of the statements above that seem contradictory to the other?

[YourVoiceisAmbrosia]

 

 

They said that your content 'failed their vetting process'. How do you reconcile that? I struggle a lot to reconcile it myself. Why would they even say that if it meant nothing in terms of removing it?

It might suggest Obsidian just didn't notice it could be controversial. Which is a fail in their vetting process, because the current discussion is bad PR & hurting the game - no matter what specific opinion you might have on the subject.

 

 

"It's come to our attention that a piece of backer-created content has made it into Pillars of Eternity that was not vetted. "

 

"Prior to release, we worked with many of our backers to iterate on content they asked to be put into the game that didn't strike the right tone." 

 

"It is completely the backer's choice whether they want to include the text they originally submitted or whether they want to change it"

 

Is there any of the statements above that seem contradictory to the other?

 

 

The "vetting" might be super lax, they probably just posted that for people who were upset that they included it in the first place.

[Kimuji]

The people at Obsidian are not complete fools you know... if they really had the intention to remove Firedorn's first limerick in order to please the wackos who called them out on transgender phobia on Twitter they wouldn't have allowed him to write a new one that makes explicitly fun of their pathetic intimidation attempt.

[Serdan]

 

Regardless of why it is changed now.  Obsidian now has a huge target on their back for the professionally offended (or whatever you want to call them) after they smell the blood from this.  I expect they are going to get a lot more "problematic" complaints coming up in the future because someone is offended by something.  Josh should have never answered that tweet (then we wouldn't be in this mess now) and as soon as this happened Obsidian should have told them that the game is a harsh world were stuff like this exist and it no way reflects people who created the game beliefs.  Oh, and then flip them off for good measure.  

You've got it so backwards it's not even funny.  The very best way to paint the target is to engage in childish one-uppery.  Obsidian and Firedom responded rather perfectly.  The showed responsiveness to the issue but Firedom also got to express his feeling that this was an overreaction to what was intended as a harmless jest, but which unintentionally offended people.  The overall effect is an honest effort to keep the peace and nobody can fault Obsidian or Firedom for that.  Had they done what you suggest, it would only be throwing gas on the fire.

 

Firedorn knew it was offensive. He expected it to be rejected. He obviously did not intend it as just a harmless jest.

Why the hell are you so invested in making it seem like he is without fault?

[pstone]

 

 

They said that your content 'failed their vetting process'. How do you reconcile that? I struggle a lot to reconcile it myself. Why would they even say that if it meant nothing in terms of removing it?

It might suggest Obsidian just didn't notice it could be controversial. Which is a fail in their vetting process, because the current discussion is bad PR & hurting the game - no matter what specific opinion you might have on the subject.

 

 

Companies that give in don't get any respect.

 

Yes, and companies that don't give in also don't get any respect. Their vetting process failed simply by missing a potential controversy that cannot have a positive resolution for everyone: no matter how it is handled, people with a different opinion will be upset.

[TCJ]

 

To anyone offended by the censorship like me here is a mod that restores the text:

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity/mods/28/?

 

Better yet, it also gives you the option to have both the original text and the new limerick. Whoever made this mod is a hero.

 

You can't keep a game censored on PC no matter how many people you get to whine about it.

 

Called it!

[Evange]

 

"Asked". Meaning "change it or we simply remove it". There was no choice involved for the person.

 

Actually, there was a choice.  They asked me if I wanted to change in light of what happened.  I chose to change it so that they can concentrate on the game instead of this PR nightmare.  They weren't going to change it, they asked ME if I wanted to.  I can find another platform to write my controversial crap, and I will.  They, on the other hand, did the right thing and allowed me to decide the fate of the epitaph.  I chose to turn into something that made fun of the bitch-bastards that were complaining.

 

They went above and beyond what I would have expected them to do.

 

Upvote for this!

[luzarius]

 

To anyone offended by the censorship like me here is a mod that restores the text:

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity/mods/28/?

 

Better yet, it also gives you the option to have both the original text and the new limerick. Whoever made this mod is a hero.

 

You can't keep a game censored on PC no matter how many people you get to whine about it.

 

Called it!

 

 

I'm so impressed, I love modding

Edited April 4, 2015 by luzarius

[DavidHansen]

Well, if Firedorn asserts that he had a choice, contrary to what the "failed our vetting process" and "worked with many of our backers to iterate on content that didn't strike the right tone" statement implies, then I'm not going to call that a lie.

 

I still find Obsidian's post on it bizarre and heavily implying that they would have forced a change.

Edited April 4, 2015 by DavidHansen

[Longknife]

I have to rant here, because even just trying to bring about new info to the GamerGate subreddit was incredibly frustrating. Before I continue on I wanna make it clear that I would expect idiots both amidst GamerGate and opposed to it, so what I've encountered now and what I'm about to say shouldn't be interpreted as a diss to GamerGate as a collective, only to a fringe group of members that are far too overzealous:

 

 

 

Those of you that are still complaining about removal are freaking children.

 

 

 

Firedorn himself said he had the option to keep the line. Case Closed. That's exactly how Obsidian should've handled it. You do not get to sit here and baselessly accuse Firedorn of lying, this is the most reliable source we've got and he's got no pony in this race. Your conspiracy that the Obsidian devs convinced him to say that will remain just that: a conspiracy. You lack proof, you can go no further until you get some.

 

 

 

"But what about how feargus' comment doesn't align with what Firedorn said?!?"

 

Have you considered that CEOs and marketing departments are basically required to save face for the company as much as possible. Yes, Feargus was probably a tad dishonest with you, but:

 

1) You are unbelievably naive and ignorant if you do not expect the very same from ANY CEO or marketing department

2) Have you considered that if Feargus had said "FIREDORN CAVED, BLAME HIM," then you would all be screaming at Obsidian for throwing him under the bus? For Obsidian to disclose the information Firedorn provided us with would be unfair to Firedorn. Why? Because perhaps Firedorn wouldn't want people knowing how things went down or that he was the one that "caved?" You never know what people might say, so the best way to respect Firedorn is to not say anything in regards to him unless he himself decides to say how it went down. Obsidian could ultimately only hope Firedorn would wish for his motivations to be known public, because it's just as likely he would've wanted no details given as to what went down, since wtf, half of you are acting like you have pitchforks and are ready to march on Obsidian headquarters.

 

 

 

 

   If you are still complaining and rioting at Obsidian, it's painfully obvious you just want something to b**** about and someone to be mad at, in which case, please explain to me how you are ANY better than the person on twitter who got this whole ball rolling?

 

 

 

Please, kindly sit down and shut up until you have any proof for any conspiracies you may still harbor. You'll get no support from me, and I don't think you'll get any support from a lot of others who would share your concerns about censorship and overly sensitive SJWs.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Longknife

[mcmanusaur]

Certainly a lot of ****lords in here. Good job to Obsidian for handling this professionally.

[Kveldulf]

The fact is, obsidian's vetting process found a cleverly written Limerick to be unfitting for a setting in which people are lynched, babies killed, mental disorders are made fun of, and PCs have the choice to ravage entire cities via theft and murder.

 

Right, it was ill fitting and tasteless            /sarcasm

 

*cough* Obsidian = SJW  *cough*

[Cyphon]

The people at Obsidian are not complete fools you know... if they really had the intention to remove Firedorn's first limerick in order to please the wackos who called them out on transgender phobia on Twitter they wouldn't have allowed him to write a new one that makes explicitly fun of their pathetic intimidation attempt.

Of course, you miss the part that by in any way caving to a "pathetic intimidation attempt," they validate it and succumb to it.  You only bring down and insult everyone involved by trying to characterize it that way. 

 

Face it:  they considered the complaint and simply decided it needed to be changed to keep the peace.  That's not censorship, intimidation, caving, cowardice or whatever.  These are smart people who, as today's patch showed, listen to the community and want what's best for their game and it's fans, both in a business sense but also in the sense of having created something cool that they get to enjoy with everyone.  They simply wanted to keep the peace...it was changed to address the issue and, as a bonus, Firedom got to have some clever word play in there to express his disappointment at the overreaction to the unintended offense people took with his joke.  Seems like a happy medium to me.

[ChipMHazard]

The people at Obsidian are not complete fools you know... if they really had the intention to remove Firedorn's first limerick in order to please the wackos who called them out on transgender phobia on Twitter they wouldn't have allowed him to write a new one that makes explicitly fun of their pathetic intimidation attempt.

 

I would claim that it's rather obvious they made the request to have it changed because of said wackos, if for no other reason than to hopefully end the pointless crusade they were being subjected to i.e. they would probably never have asked Firdorn had the crazies not noticed it.

That they allowed him to make a jab at those that started it is most certainly welcome, especially since I don't see how the crazy people will be able to try and force the removal of that memorial as well. 

[mindswayer]

The people at Obsidian are not complete fools you know... if they really had the intention to remove Firedorn's first limerick in order to please the wackos who called them out on transgender phobia on Twitter they wouldn't have allowed him to write a new one that makes explicitly fun of their pathetic intimidation attempt.

Yeah, this is actually true. I don't believe they failed their "vetting" process again. It's all solved now, apparently. Back to the world of Eora, everone.

[Badmojo]

 

Regardless of why it is changed now.  Obsidian now has a huge target on their back for the professionally offended (or whatever you want to call them) after they smell the blood from this.  I expect they are going to get a lot more "problematic" complaints coming up in the future because someone is offended by something.  Josh should have never answered that tweet (then we wouldn't be in this mess now) and as soon as this happened Obsidian should have told them that the game is a harsh world were stuff like this exist and it no way reflects people who created the game beliefs.  Oh, and then flip them off for good measure.  

You've got it so backwards it's not even funny.  The very best way to paint the target is to engage in childish one-uppery.  Obsidian and Firedom responded rather perfectly.  The showed responsiveness to the issue but Firedom also got to express his feeling that this was an overreaction to what was intended as a harmless jest, but which unintentionally offended people.  The overall effect is an honest effort to keep the peace and nobody can fault Obsidian or Firedom for that.  Had they done what you suggest, it would only be throwing gas on the fire.

 

 

Oh, and what do you call this?  Looks like rome is burning as we speak.  So what will we do when the next and future complaints come?  Bend over for them too?, because they ARE going to come.  A lot of backers are very disappointed at this, the whole point of backing the game was to have complete freedom and not worry about games being controlled or censored...and here we are, censoring something because someone got offended about it and bowing down to a group that hate gamers and their culture.  Listening to them was a stupid move and a bad sign for obsidian since it shows they will cave under the littlest pressure.

[Kimuji]

Well, if Firedorn asserts that he had a choice, contrary to what the "worked wth many of our backers to iterate on content that didn't strike the right tone" statement implies, then I'm not going to call that a lie.

 

I still find Obsidian's post on it bizarre and heavily implying that they would have forced a change.

You know how PR works... it generally make things worse when the truth isn't as bad as it seems. Sometimes not bothering about "What will people think if I say this? ... and what if I say that instead?" can make everything go smoother. Obsidian isn't perfect, but that doesn't make them terrible people either.

[luzarius]

 

 

Regardless of why it is changed now.  Obsidian now has a huge target on their back for the professionally offended (or whatever you want to call them) after they smell the blood from this.  I expect they are going to get a lot more "problematic" complaints coming up in the future because someone is offended by something.  Josh should have never answered that tweet (then we wouldn't be in this mess now) and as soon as this happened Obsidian should have told them that the game is a harsh world were stuff like this exist and it no way reflects people who created the game beliefs.  Oh, and then flip them off for good measure.  

You've got it so backwards it's not even funny.  The very best way to paint the target is to engage in childish one-uppery.  Obsidian and Firedom responded rather perfectly.  The showed responsiveness to the issue but Firedom also got to express his feeling that this was an overreaction to what was intended as a harmless jest, but which unintentionally offended people.  The overall effect is an honest effort to keep the peace and nobody can fault Obsidian or Firedom for that.  Had they done what you suggest, it would only be throwing gas on the fire.

 

 

Oh, and what do you call this?  Looks like rome is burning as we speak.  So what will we do when the next and future complaints come?  Bend over for them too?, because they ARE going to come.  A lot of backers are very disappointed at this, the whole point of backing the game was to have complete freedom and not worry about games being controlled or censored...and here we are, censoring something because someone got offended about it and bowing down to a group that hate gamers and their culture.  Listening to them was a stupid move and a bad sign for obsidian since it shows they will cave under the littlest pressure.

 

 

Bioware are the queens of bending over, it sickes me.

 

On a side note, I want to say I respect the moderators of this forum a great deal for letting people speak their minds.  The Bioware forums are plauged with moderators from North Korea. 

 

I am no longer posting in regards to this topic.   I just want to say that ideally the original limerick should of been left intact.

Edited April 4, 2015 by luzarius

[Serdan]

 

The people at Obsidian are not complete fools you know... if they really had the intention to remove Firedorn's first limerick in order to please the wackos who called them out on transgender phobia on Twitter they wouldn't have allowed him to write a new one that makes explicitly fun of their pathetic intimidation attempt.

Of course, you miss the part that by in any way caving to a "pathetic intimidation attempt," they validate it and succumb to it.  You only bring down and insult everyone involved by trying to characterize it that way. 

 

Face it:  they considered the complaint and simply decided it needed to be changed to keep the peace.  That's not censorship, intimidation, caving, cowardice or whatever.  These are smart people who, as today's patch showed, listen to the community and want what's best for their game and it's fans, both in a business sense but also in the sense of having created something cool that they get to enjoy with everyone.  They simply wanted to keep the peace...it was changed to address the issue and, as a bonus, Firedom got to have some clever word play in there to express his disappointment at the overreaction to the unintended offense people took with his joke.  Seems like a happy medium to me.

 

Have you read his posts? He *knew* it was offensive!

Why do you keep defending him?