Always running back to the inn... (Suggestion)

[Tigranes]

 

 

 

Wasting 5 minutes going back and forth to save 150 copper is basically running a deficit, because in that 5 minutes you could easily earn 150 copper exploring, looting, killing. It's like taking an unpaid leave from your workplace to go to the store and get that 50% sale on a loaf of bread. There is no incentive to waste time this way.

That is, of course, more true later in the game. But you're forgetting that (at least as far in the game as I've played) there is no renewable source of income, so it's not a completely fair comparison. It would suck to miss buying that great late-game item for your character by 86 copper because you camped one too many times. You're also forgetting the other incentives the game provides for running to town.

 

 

Yeah. That's not going to happen, not unless you're buying 300 camping supplies. By the way, the stronghold is a renewable source of income to infinity in the form of taxes. Given that you get several hundred copper, It simply isn't a valid calculation. 

 

Of course there are other incentives for visiting town/stronghold. You're meant to have gameplay - it would suck if there were no reasons to visit the stronghold. The point is that there isn't a strong incentive to keep running back to town in the middle of a dungeon just to sleep at an inn and save your 75 copper. 

 

I've just gone through 4 levels of Od Nua without running back to town. That's not because I'm awesome (people will play on different difficulties with different sized and composed parties). I just find that when I try to go as many battles as possible without resting it adds to the tension, it adds to the tactical diversity (if Eder is on 2 health I can't frontline him like I always do), and it adds to the fun. 

 

I'm sure somebody will make a rest-anywhere mod, of course, so that if you want to rest after every battle, or whatever other combination, you can.

 

I am currently annoyed that money is finite.

 

How you get infinite money with the stronghold? I thought that you could only get taxes after a number of quests (and obviously those are limited, or there are repeatable quests? Or randomly generated quests?)

 

 

Good point, I thought taxes (as opposed to adventures) were tied to game time and not quest time, but I could be wrong. Still, the point stands that given how much money you earn from every source, I'd pay a hundred bucks to see anyone who was truly cheated out of something because they used all the money in the world after buying a million camping supplies.

 

 

This seems more ilke a hassle than increasing the difficulty for the players. Some character classes such as wizard after using all his/her spells they are just plain useless acting as meat slaughters.

 

I understand the camping supplies are supposed to add a layer of difficulty where when you enter this location and you are limited to x amount of supplies. If you can't make it out then you will have to start and plan all over with your limited supplies.

 

But this is not working at all for Wizards.

 

I would suggest that maybe they can increase Wizard mechanics like doubling or tripling their castings per rest and increase the camping supplies limit. But they are still fricking useless compared to a Cipher. Just why not allow their low-mid spells to be per encounter and high level ones per rest?

 

It does increase difficulty - you just described how it increases difficulty. It's actually a problem right now that classes like cipher after a while can just spam their best abilities each encounter with their starting focus, because that's the kind of stuff camping supplies should prevent. 

 

Your proposed solution of tripling their castings per rest would make the per-rest limitation utterly redundant. That would just mean your wizard can cast whatever spell he wants however as often he wants every single battle. That's the kind of boring "make every battle the same pushover" that camping supplies prevents. 

 

(Of course, this doesn't mean the classes shouldn't be rebalanced.)

[Archaven]

A better player will have less time spent on his playthrough. So the only thing it does, i a sort of bragging rights if you managed to minimze rest and travel times on quests/side quests.

 

Personally it challenges me to be mindful of my resources, even if there is no real in-game penalty for running to the inn all the time. Also you find 1-2 camp supplies in every dungeon which most of the time I didnt even need.

 

It feels very rewarding getting to a sort of boss encounter with minimum resources and 1 camp fire left. Rest up and throw everything at the encounter. 

 

The trash mobs will always be dealt with minimal resources (per rest abilities and health) spent. The gamechangers will only be brought to fights where they are needed. It works quite well. It's an indirect push into the direction, the devs want you to take when tackling the encounters.

 

I think the idea for this limited camping supplies was to add a layer of difficulty, challenge and introduces proper planning or strategy for say a location or level. It's also to add a sense of achievement as a reward if let's say you are limited to 3 camping supplies and you enter this cave, and once entered the cave, rocks fell and block the entrance and you can't go back until you clear all the cave and find a way out with that limited 3 camping supplies.

 

With such restrictions, this will forced players to plan and strategize every battle and encounters while inside the cave and play in best efficiency to make it out. This provides a sense of challenge and satisfactions if players managed to complete the cave.

 

But i don't see this working with some classes that are underwhelmingly useless like Wizard compared to other classes such as Cipher and with that limited 2 camping supplies. Its just more hassle than adding a sense of challenge.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Archaven

[Jimmious]

I think a mechanic like increasing the difficulty of the remaining encounters of the area in case you leave it (when they are "connected") would be a solution.
For example if you are in a Keep slaughtering everyone and then you decide to leave to go to an inn and come back, the rest of the guard encounters should become harder.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Jimmious

[omgFIREBALLS]

A better player will have less time spent on his playthrough.

Word.

 

I'm aiming to take on PotD (with both the painful condiments) one day. Now I've no idea how difficult it is, but if it's a real nutbuster, I could theoretically blow every per-rest ability on every fight and go back to the Black Hound and rest for free. And I'd obviously get some infinite rest mod instead of actually enduring that =.=

 

I'm not a fan of the camping supplies mechanic. The real epeen is indeed how little time you spend on your playthrough.

Edited March 30, 2015 by omgFIREBALLS

[Tigranes]

That too would be an interesting idea - though the player who is wasting time running back to the inn is probably not as good (or his party is not as well equipped to deal with) that area, so they might truly get into a spiral where they come back and it becomes impossible for them. 

 

Camping supplies is actually the 'weakest' of the many ways in which resting can be limited (e.g. not allowing any resting in dungeon areas, Jimmious' solution...)

[Gfted1]

I wonder if someone could mod in an item that just continuously outputs a Healing wave as an aura. That would rock.

[Tigranes]

I wonder if someone could mod in an item that just continuously outputs a Healing wave as an aura. That would rock.

 

Isn't there god mode on the console? You'd think that's the first thing they put in, just for you. 

[Killyox]

Sensuki, hallowed be his name, made a Camping Supply mod.   Run, don't walk, to get it.

I will pass

[Gfted1]

 

I wonder if someone could mod in an item that just continuously outputs a Healing wave as an aura. That would rock.

 

Isn't there god mode on the console? You'd think that's the first thing they put in, just for you. 

 

 

Sadly, I don't think there is a god mode.

 

Glancing through the cheat code thread it seems like you can perform individual character Healing but no party Healing or God mode. But that's just from a quick looksee. If ANYONE knows how to enable a God Mode or party wide Healing please let me know ASAP. I haven't even been able to overcome my inertia and start the game since I had such an unfun time playing the Beta.

[TimTumm]

I like the camping limitation.

 

No spoilers.  I "started" in the middle of a dungeon and had to walk out.  The dungeon was ober my level, and I had to skirt around mobs just to find my way out.  The fights I was forced to fight used up all my camping supplies and my wounded/maimed party finally made it back to the inn hours later.  It was one of my most memorable rpg experiences.  Mark that under emergent bahvior.

[Ink Blot]

Sadly, I don't think there is a god mode.

 

Glancing through the cheat code thread it seems like you can perform individual character Healing but no party Healing or God mode. But that's just from a quick looksee. If ANYONE knows how to enable a God Mode or party wide Healing please let me know ASAP. I haven't even been able to overcome my inertia and start the game since I had such an unfun time playing the Beta.

 

Try toggling the console on, then enter simply 'God' without the quotes. A quick search turned that up, but I haven't tested it.

 

'Rest' supposedly forces the party to rest without using camping supplies.

[Ink Blot]

I like the camping limitation.

 

No spoilers.  I "started" in the middle of a dungeon and had to walk out.  The dungeon was ober my level, and I had to skirt around mobs just to find my way out.  The fights I was forced to fight used up all my camping supplies and my wounded/maimed party finally made it back to the inn hours later.  It was one of my most memorable rpg experiences.  Mark that under emergent bahvior.

Just had a similar experience. Three character party and took on a tough encounter. Probably should have suffered a TPK, but I used some scrolls and positioning and got pretty lucky, I believe. Had to use my last bundle of supplies right after, as my tank was down to 8 HP. Took a walk back to town to grab more supplies. Pretty cool, pretty fun, and quite memorable.

[Gfted1]

Try toggling the console on, then enter simply 'God' without the quotes. A quick search turned that up, but I haven't tested it.

 

'Rest' supposedly forces the party to rest without using camping supplies.

Thanks! If that "God" works l'll be thrilled! 

 

Iirc, the "Rest" is for individual party members, not the whole party at once, so kinda a pita.

[RedSocialKnight]

I agree. A choice between spending ingame resources and accepting inconvenience and busywork is not one the player should be faced with.

 

The inn should not be free, but camping supplies should be priced more affordably.

 

For potential cases where the player runs out of money but absolutely needs to rest, there could be a free charity hostel that comes with penalties (to stats or reputation) that would be useful for emergencies but did not incentivize constant penny-pinching runs back to town.

 

For clarity:

 

I like the camping limitation.

 

So do I. What I don't like is the way you can get around it by accepting a less-fun style of play (running back to the inn every night).

Edited March 30, 2015 by RedSocialKnight

[Tigranes]

I had that same situation TimTumm described, and it was great fun. I didn't expect it to happen and then after that I had to calculate carefully what resources I would use when to make sure I would get out in good shape. Sometimes I would have to fight with Eder on 2 health, making me change my whole strategy, and deciding when to rest was a big deal. If I could rest after every battle it would have been a boring series of rinse and repeats.

 

Once again, there is no 'incentive' to run back to town to pinch pennies unless you're really bad at calculating costs and benefits. You earn enough money for a camping supply roughly every other barrel or every three or four xaurips felled. There is no choice here that encourages inconvenience and busywork. The only thing that encourages inconvenience is the player's own stubborn determination that he/she really really wants to save 75 copper by running around for 5 minutes - when in the same time the player could easily earn several hundred copper.

 

It's like complaining McDonald's incentivises you to run to their restaurant every time you want a tissue, because their tissues are free.

[Ink Blot]

Thanks! If that "God" works l'll be thrilled!

 

Just tested. It works.

[Gfted1]

You sir, rock!

 

So just:

 

~

God

 

is all I need to do? This confers God mode to the entire party?

[Ink Blot]

You sir, rock!

 

So just:

 

~

God

 

is all I need to do? This confers God mode to the entire party?

Yep, close. Enable the console with the ~ key.

 

Hit Enter to be able to input a command.

Type iroll20s and then hit Enter again

 

Cheat codes are now enabled.

 

hit the ~ key again and then Enter

type God and hit Enter

 

Party is now invulnerable.

 

Input God again to disable God Mode. Just input iroll20s again to disable the cheat mode.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Ink Blot

[Gfted1]

w00t!

 

Hehe, I c&p your post into a Word document just so I don't lose it.

[petch]

Sensuki, hallowed be his name, made a Camping Supply mod.   Run, don't walk, to get it.

Where from?

[Gfted1]

 

Sensuki, hallowed be his name, made a Camping Supply mod.   Run, don't walk, to get it.

Where from?

 

 

Im not sure if its hosted on a site yet but if you send him a PM then Im sure he'll take care of you.

[SwampFalc]

It seems to me that part of the problem does reside in the perfectly static nature of the dungeons.

 

You go into a dungeon, use up some of your resources and then you either camp right there or walk back to the Inn. However, neither of those options is in any way dangerous.

 

You're not going to get ambushed during your rest.

The way out of the dungeon is not going to fill back up with monsters.

There are no wild animals that will wander back onto the path from the dungeon to the inn.

 

I mean, at the very start of the game, if you rest in the first dungeon,

Calisca runs away

for no good reason whatsoever, because the safest place she could be is resting, in a part of a dungeon that's been cleared.

 

I am not surprised that two players have now mentioned that the one time they got dropped in the middle of a dungeon, was the best adventure they had.

[Lephys]

See, more power to anyone who would like to cheat through the game, but that doesn't mean the game is wrong to not be designed for you to cast 73 spells per battle and never have to manage anything.

 

Limited camping supplies (or any similar limitation that could be implemented for resting) is no more a hassle than finite HP, or finite anything, really.

 

That being said, maybe it isn't mathematically perfect, and a lot of people have pointed out some things that might be a bit imbalanced in the game.

 

The first thing that comes to my mind, as a Wizard character, is that it seems a little strange to me that the per-rest/per-encounter thing wasn't taken further advantage of. I get that at the highest levels, your entire bottom two tiers of spells shift to per-encounter. However, I don't understand why it wouldn't have been more prudent to spread that out a bit.

 

At Level 1, you could start with 1 L1 spell per-encounter (PE), and 2 per rest (PR). With that in place, I'd've made Arcane Assault PR, or at least lowered it to 1 PE. Then, every few levels, all your PE spells would just shift up +1. So, maybe at Level 3, you'd get 2 L1 spells PE, and still have 2 PR. You'd just start with 2 L2 spells PR. Then, maybe at level 5, you'd get your first L3 spells PR, and you'd gain 1 L2 spell PE.

 

You'd get a little head start with L1 spells, and the rest would be gained later, but not just at the last two levels.

 

I just think a more gradual PR-PE shift would work better for Wizards. Even ONE PE spell from Lvl 2 tier or higher is ultra useful. Whereas, at level 12, you suddenly have like 4-6 PE spells from two different tiers, each, every single encounter. That's a pretty dramatic shift in spell-slinging output. I know they're much lower-leveled spells at that point, but... still.

 

Also, I honestly kind of prefer the "spells scale in some fashion based on your caster level" notion. The Level-1 spells can still be far weaker, but it'd be nice if they got like +2 seconds to duration every couple of levels or something. Or +5% damage. OR, you could even pick that sort of thing. Maybe they get +something to Range, or Accuracy? That would be a cool thing to choose as you progress. You could just call it "LvL-X spell mastery" or something. And, again, the devs could pick the offset to use. Every odd caster level, or every 3rd, etc.

 

I only have decent knowledge of the Wizard, so I'm just talking about that here, as an example, but this could probably be applied, in some way, to all the classes, to a greater or lesser degree.

[syarulax]

Yeah kinda hit your own nail in a coffin did ya?..

 

But there is a catch early on that quite rewarding that you can get plenty of gold once you go to Raedric Hold, clearing his castle will put you with plenty of armors, weapons and other things. Selling all of it might end up more than 5k cp.

You do have to take each fight in his castle intelligently by not alerting at least the other party on the side room and always start battle from scouting mode, use door and choke corridor to block your squishy Aloth, if you don't have another front lines beside Eder hire a merc, pick Durance before you go there. The best way is through the sewers, clear the undead and speak to Osyra, she can offer you rest once you out of camping supply, or Nedmar on the upper floor.

Edited March 30, 2015 by syarulax

[superluccix]

I have used the free room at the inn every single time I have needed to rest. I absolutely refuse to spend money on camping supplies, when I have no idea what the game will hold for me in the future regarding expenses.

 

Havent used any enchants, havent bought any materials/potions/w/e. Because after all, how do I know this game isnt like DA:O where you pretty much have a limited supply of coin and could only afford the good items at the end.

 

I dont know of course, but thats how I always have played.

 

The whole way they went around this rest mechanic is just tedious. Yes I understand what they were trying to do, to add more realism, bu frankly this is an example oh where I would put Gameplay>realism.

 

I liked the Baldrs gate rest system. Yeah I would save/reload if I got ambushed, thereby making ambush worthless, but I want to enjoy the damn dungeon Im playing. And after every 2 battles having to run back to either rest, or then buy some supplies, to last a couple more battles, to then keep running back to get more since there is a limit.

 

Its annoying imo. Wouldnt be surprised if 1/4 of peoples play time involved just resting at inn/getting camping supplies

Edited April 18, 2015 by superluccix