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Memorials problem.

Ladyjess
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Ladyjess

Ladyjess

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Posted

I know this is the first time I've posted here. I backed, and own the game. Haven't had much time to play it yet.

 

But today I found out that one of the backers created memorials is a anti-trans "joke".

 

You can see the screenshot here http://twitter.com/icequeenerika/status/582161950202863616

 

Text for those who can't see the link.

"Firedorn Lightbringer

Here lies Firedorn, a hero in bed

He once was alive and now he's dead

The last woman be bedded, turned out a man

and crying in shame, of a cliff he ran"

 

I understand this was created by a backer. But why was something so horrible included in the final game? Could you have not said no and asked for something less transphobic? I know, it's just a joke. As someone who is trans, who backed this game and who was really looking forward to playing it soon, this really has made me angry.

 

I wasn't sure how to bring this up in a different way. I don't know how people will react to this. But I'm really saddened to see that this game I've been waiting over two years for is being ruined for me by one backer making a stupid "Joke" about trans women being men.

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Stereophobia

Stereophobia

Posted
Posted

Think of this. I'm a redhead. If I stopped playing any game that was negative about redheads I would have missed out on a number of classics. I'm also English so have to put up with a lot of other stereotyping that is both offensive and inaccurate. That said, I know not to let it get under my skin, and enjoy the product anyway.

 

Everyone will find things in the media that rubs them up the wrong way, you just need to develop thicker skin and move past it.

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Fynnding

Fynnding

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This is also the first time I've posted here, and I backed the game as well. I love Obsidian games and all of the games made by its employees from before there even was an Obsidian.

 

Please don't change the memorial. There is currently a high-tension outrage machine tromping through cyberspace right now, and it has set its sights on Pillars of Eternity over one backer's limerick, and threatening to "not buy the game" and trash-talk it over such a miniscule thing.

 

The person who wrote that Twitter post does not have your or anyone's best interests at heart. Just look through their history.

 

When I backed Pillars of Eternity, I did it thinking that I could finally help make a game that you would be able to make, totally free of publisher influence. Unfortunately, that was not the only front I should have been looking at.

 

Changing it will not change their opinion of you. It will not suddenly cause them to buy the game. Their attention will just flit to the next target their mob sets their sights on tomorrow.

 

On the joke in particular, a fictional man jumping off of a cliff because he discovered that the fictional woman he thought he was bedding turned out to be another fictional man, is not transphobia or transmisogyny. The fictional man is not entitled to sex with the other fictional man, false pretenses or no.

 

It's ridiculous that I even have to write this post, but please don't change a thing because people are just looking for something to get outraged over.

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SKull

SKull

Posted
Posted (edited)

Talk about being overly sensitive. Also, "transphobic" isn`t a proper word. And even if it was it doesn`t apply here. A phobia means an irrational fear of something. Making a joke at somebody else`s expense therefore does not make you phobic. Sigh...Can`t you at least get a dictionary before you start complaining about nonsense?

Edited by SKull
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endruwiggin

endruwiggin

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Posted

I think the right place to put a complaint about it is with Obsidian support, not here, since they're the only one who can decide what to do with it and I dont think they reply to forums.

 

Also take note that not many people actually read those things anyway ;)

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Ohioastro

Ohioastro

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Posted

Reading the backer tombstones is completely optional.  As in, you actively have to click through multiple layers to read them; there are no required plot elements at all that use them; and they advance the game in no way.

 

This really does come across as outrage for its own sake: this doesn't have to even imply anything at all about trans people (it could be a cross-dressing reference, for example...)

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Highlander

Highlander

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Posted

"Anti-trans" my ass. The discussion under that tweet is completely ridiculous, I had no idea people like this actually existed. Can we not joke about *anything* anymore without these groups getting their knickers in a twist?

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Valsuelm

Valsuelm

Posted
Posted

This is also the first time I've posted here, and I backed the game as well. I love Obsidian games and all of the games made by its employees from before there even was an Obsidian.

 

Please don't change the memorial. There is currently a high-tension outrage machine tromping through cyberspace right now, and it has set its sights on Pillars of Eternity over one backer's limerick, and threatening to "not buy the game" and trash-talk it over such a miniscule thing.

 

The person who wrote that Twitter post does not have your or anyone's best interests at heart. Just look through their history.

 

When I backed Pillars of Eternity, I did it thinking that I could finally help make a game that you would be able to make, totally free of publisher influence. Unfortunately, that was not the only front I should have been looking at.

 

Changing it will not change their opinion of you. It will not suddenly cause them to buy the game. Their attention will just flit to the next target their mob sets their sights on tomorrow.

 

On the joke in particular, a fictional man jumping off of a cliff because he discovered that the fictional woman he thought he was bedding turned out to be another fictional man, is not transphobia or transmisogyny. The fictional man is not entitled to sex with the other fictional man, false pretenses or no.

 

It's ridiculous that I even have to write this post, but please don't change a thing because people are just looking for something to get outraged over.

 

Very well said.

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Jaegerbombastic

Jaegerbombastic

Posted
Posted

Might as well use my first post to wade into the argument too before it become ridiculous.

First of all, how do you know that the poem means he slept with a transwoman. It could have, but it could have also meant he slept with another man. The joke is at the expense of te dude who threw himself (or accidentally ran off) off the cliff, not the person he slept with. Replace the line with one about how he slept with his sister, an old lady, or a confused Xaurip and it would have the same effect.

Second, you're complaining about how a single, backer-made poem that not only doesn't factor into the main campaign or any of the sidequests but doesn't show up anywhere else except for one object that you have to actively look has "ruined" the game for you. Don't you think that's something awfully petty to rage quit over? If we were talking about, say, a quest that involves beating up an killing a transwoman for no other reason than she's trans and the game treats this as something positive to do, I would understand the outrage and demand to change game content perfectly. But, again, this is a small joke epitaph. Like any joke that offends you in something that you otherwise enjoy, the best thing to do is roll your eyes move along. 

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sparklecat

sparklecat

Posted
Posted

I know this is the first time I've posted here. I backed, and own the game. Haven't had much time to play it yet.

 

But today I found out that one of the backers created memorials is a anti-trans "joke".

 

You can see the screenshot here http://twitter.com/icequeenerika/status/582161950202863616

 

Text for those who can't see the link.

"Firedorn Lightbringer

Here lies Firedorn, a hero in bed

He once was alive and now he's dead

The last woman be bedded, turned out a man

and crying in shame, of a cliff he ran"

 

I understand this was created by a backer. But why was something so horrible included in the final game? Could you have not said no and asked for something less transphobic? I know, it's just a joke. As someone who is trans, who backed this game and who was really looking forward to playing it soon, this really has made me angry.

 

I wasn't sure how to bring this up in a different way. I don't know how people will react to this. But I'm really saddened to see that this game I've been waiting over two years for is being ruined for me by one backer making a stupid "Joke" about trans women being men.

The way you brought it up is fine, and I think you're right; they should have turned down this one.  Two comments, though:

 

1. I'm not sure how much they actually went through this backer content at all, given that it was just going to all be collected together in groups on the various memorials.  You might have better luck emailing Obsidian directly about the fact that running into this was upsetting for you, instead of simply posting here, in terms of getting your concerns heard.

 

2.  If you can, I'd urge you not to give up on the game because of something they let slip through; overall, I've seen the game itself touch a couple times on issues where you could draw some parallels to trans people, and none of it struck me as likely to be offensive or upsetting.

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hollowcrown

hollowcrown

Posted
Posted

1. It's not transphobic. It's not offensive at all. It's fiction. The mental gymnastics required to actually take offense at this are quite astonishing. Please don't pander to these people who get offended easily at everything.


 


2. If Obsidian takes it out of the game, I expect the backer who pledged for this reward to be fully refunded for the money they backed to Project Eternity.


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Darji

Darji

Posted
Posted

Yeah Obsidian should never give in into these nut jobs who get offended even by the weather....

 

1. It is a mature game

2. It was already approved by the team and should not be censored at any costs.

 

Seriously it is not even trans phobic not in anyway. This whole I am offended by this so you need to remove it should really stop. Its fine if you are offended by something but that does not give you the right to call for Censorship. 

 

It would be really a shame if Obsidian gives into this pressure of a social media Mob....

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Dragoon-

Dragoon-

Posted
Posted (edited)

I know this is the first time I've posted here. I backed, and own the game. Haven't had much time to play it yet.

 

But today I found out that one of the backers created memorials is a anti-trans "joke".

 

You can see the screenshot here http://twitter.com/icequeenerika/status/582161950202863616

 

Text for those who can't see the link.

"Firedorn Lightbringer

Here lies Firedorn, a hero in bed

He once was alive and now he's dead

The last woman be bedded, turned out a man

and crying in shame, of a cliff he ran"

 

I understand this was created by a backer. But why was something so horrible included in the final game? Could you have not said no and asked for something less transphobic? I know, it's just a joke. As someone who is trans, who backed this game and who was really looking forward to playing it soon, this really has made me angry.

 

I wasn't sure how to bring this up in a different way. I don't know how people will react to this. But I'm really saddened to see that this game I've been waiting over two years for is being ruined for me by one backer making a stupid "Joke" about trans women being men.

 

Oh gosh, this bring up memories of trip to Thailand in my youth, that hoped i had forgotten by now.

Edited by Dragoon-
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Nixl

Nixl

Posted
Posted

Since the other thread was closed by Tigraines, then I will quickly repeat: I do not think that the memorial should be changed.  I dislike making such removals, because it seems like a knee-jerk reaction and smells of censorship. If we remove something on the basis that it is offensive/mean, then PoE's story is going to take major cuts.  The story hints at rape, torture, etc.  Do these also need to be removed?

 

If Obsidian does change it, I think the back should be refunded.  No sense in charging for something that was taken away. 

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Byeohazard

Byeohazard

Posted
Posted (edited)

I would not be surprised that the person who is waging the complaint is not a backer and may not even own the game. Conjecture, true. The old saying goes "put up or shut up" All I have to say in this matter however is "leave my game alone".

Edited by Byeohazard
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Cpmartins

Cpmartins

Posted
Posted

That tweet is everything that is wrong with the PC crowd. Do not cave in. You are going to bow down to a loud minority and screw the very people who allowed you to make the game. Do not do this. It's fiction. It's not real.

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“Here lies Firedorn, a hero in bed.

“He once was alive, but now he’s dead.

“The last woman he bedded, turned out a man

“And crying in shame, off a cliff he ran.”

 

Firedorn. Bard, transmysogynistic scatlord, skeleton.

 

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DrTuring

DrTuring

Posted
Posted

I vote for keeping the joke up. Just like most of the forum users.

 

Because that's the thing. The majority seems to be in favor of keeping it.

 

So please, don't remove something just because a few dozen, maybe a hundred people whined about it.

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Sakai

Sakai

Posted
Posted

Obsidian shouldn't delete this not because there's nothing criminal about the joke, or because it's not really transphobic. But because these people won't stop just with that joke. The more you give them, the more they'll demand untill everything is exactly how they want it to be.

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Manlington

Manlington

Posted
Posted

Please do not remove the memorial.

 

I backed Pillars of Eternity because I wanted to See Obsidian's developers and writers create the game that THEY wanted to make, without having to sacrifice their vision due to outside pressure from publishers, And seeing them instead cave to outside pressure from social extremists would be even worse. The Outrage Brigade will never be satisfied, they will always find something to be offended at. Censoring your game because some special snowflake (who has been shown to be a sexist and hypocrite themselves) has no sense of humor and clickbait bloggers decided to jump onto the bandwagon for extra ad revenue would completely undermine the spirit of this game.

 

It's funny that the same people that champion the idea that video games are art are also the ones who are running rampant trying to force artists to censor their work to conform to a narrow, ever-shifting quota of what is and isn't "offensive."

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