Hard mode is too easy.

[cloudline]

 

I'm playing hard setting and i find the game too easy, i'm not even an hardcore gamer, i completed Baldur's Gate  (at time) only on normal settings. I'm at 12 hours of game.

 

Would be fine a new difficulty level between hard and pod, or buffing hard mode.

 

I don't find Hard mode to be too easy at all. In fact I find the game to be remarkably well balanced.

 

I'm playing on Hard with Trial of Iron. I am being seriously challenged and forced to play immersively, as though I were actually in Eora. I need to survive, otherwise all of my hard work gets deleted along with my only save game. I appreciate not being forced to go through the dialogue and the entire story again because of some stupid, unneccesary party wipe. On Hard with Trial of Iron, if you play intelligently you will get a serious challenge and be completely unable to quick-save-reload-quick-save-reload, or save-save-save-save-save-reload.

 

Hard mode with Trial of Iron makes the game absolutely spectacular for me. I have to decide, "Damn, I can finally afford to x & y, but z would help me survive out there... grr! Okay I'll do z instead." Hard mode with Trial of Iron forces intelligent decision making and supports roleplaying. After this phenomenal experience I'm never going to play Pillars of Eternity on anything lower than Hard mode with Trial of Iron; perhaps this is actually the perfect setting to complete the game with a Hard difficulty. I think it is.

 

Damn Pillars of Eternity is so well balanced and fun to play!! Thanks for all of your hard work people @ Obsidian!!

 

Also, what really makes me love playing on Hard mode with Trial of Iron is that I'm developing a sense of trust in the game. After 10+ hours of play I came to a point where I had a decision I could make which made me absolutely nervous to try. It was an absolutely brilliant pen-and-paper moment. I thought "Right! I have to trust Obsidian here. This is a roleplaying game. Damn... if they bungle this I might absolutely wipe right here..." It worked. It damn worked. I was given an option to roleplay which risked everything, but logically I knew that I should be able to survive it given my party composition and personal skills; I was dead scared though, as I damn well should have been given the circumstances! (Note: immediately after succeeding in this dangerous situation I bungled it by making a completely stupid decision that I never would have done in real life; just perfectly, rationally balanced) With Hard mode and Trial of Iron you get punished for not thinking. You get punished for acting in a way you wouldn't really act in that kind of a situation; you will just get punished. I don't want to lose my save game. I don't want to start all over again. If you play smart, you will survive.

 

Damn it's well balanced...

 

I think that the Obsidian team absolutely removed all of the mind-numbing crap from the original IE games and replaced them with mechanics that really enhance the gameplay experience. I used to want managing my inventory in a pain-in-the-arse-way. I grew to expect pickpocket-fail-reload-pickpocket-fail-reload. I grew to experience as fun so many things in IE games simply because the games as a whole gave me a joy unlike anything else. Pillars of Eternity removes all of the rote stuff I've come to expect of IE games and completely replaces it in a way that makes the experience fun, unhindered by crap.

 

If you play dumb your companions will die, but even though I've really come close to wiping and had most of my party lying on the ground at their last breath, no one ever died. I was never forced to have a huge, unnecessary pain in my arse that did nothing but remove fun from the game. The game is difficult in all the right ways, all the smart ways, simply removing the crap.

 

Hard mode plus Trial of Iron!!

 

 

After a week of playing on Hard mode with Trial of Iron I just wiped my party.

 

As Josh Sawyer said in one of the live plays, "...playing dumb and being bad." Yup. I played smart for a week and had the time of my life. I never saved the game, not once. In the end, the only reason I wiped was because I was stupid enough to blunder my way through 3-5+ huge warning signs that I didn't belong in that area. Tss. Eh... I'm not thrilled about starting over but damn it this week of play has been, holy crap. This has been one of the best computer gaming experiences of my life. I'm going to create the same character I did last time but replay it using the new knowledge I've acquired. Sigh... this is awesome. Punishment, in just the right way. Bah!!

Edited April 2, 2015 by cloudline

[dododad]

I'm finding it a bit easy at times also. Would it be possible to just allow changing to PotD midgame?

 

I'm really not into breaking anything, I'd still go with hard as soon as critters caught up to me, It's just that I've stumbled to some areas that I previously missed, and I see no fun in steamrolling everyone.

Edited April 2, 2015 by dododad

[Lephys]

If they could boost the "decision-making" process of the AI a bit, that would help things a lot. Especially with higher difficulties. More enemies + actual "intelligent" decisions to deal with = ouch.

[sparklecat]

As for the lack of challenge, I think it only concerns the mid-game. I still believe rewarding a bit less xp from gilded vale to defiance bay would be cool. For side stuff at least, so the crit path isn't affected.

 

 

Yeah, I'm feeling like we get too much XP.  We're supposed to reach the level camp if we do nearly everything, right?  Feels like I'm going to hit it much sooner at present.

 

[Hatred]

Another thread, and I'm slowly accepting that I must just be terrible at video games. Alternatively, everyone else plays with a full team including hired adventurers.

 Um just no. Finding hard easy has nothing to do with hired adventurers. It has everything to do with over leveling from what I can see.

[Rosveen]

 

 

Another thread, and I'm slowly accepting that I must just be terrible at video games. Alternatively, everyone else plays with a full team including hired adventurers.

Um just no. Finding hard easy has nothing to do with hired adventurers. It has everything to do with over leveling from what I can see.

Min-maxed hired adventurers don't affect the difficulty? I beg to differ.

 

I'm not sure if it's possible to really overlevel in a game with a low level cap and so scarce kill XP. The most you can do is skip the hardest battles and return later, but that's just normal behavior. You still need to do quests to level up at all, so if they're too easy, they're just too easy. However, I suspect some people steamrolling the game were hit with the stat bug. I saw someone with huge, clearly unnatural AoEs who didn't notice anything was wrong.

[Ashen Rohk]

I think the difficulty curve varies wildly. I went from slaughtering my through the priest's quarters in Raedric's keep to getting ramshanked by a trio of boar.

[PIP-Clownboy]

After a week of playing on Hard mode with Trial of Iron I just wiped my party.

 

As Josh Sawyer said in one of the live plays, "...playing dumb and being bad." Yup. I played smart for a week and had the time of my life. I never saved the game, not once. In the end, the only reason I wiped was because I was stupid enough to blunder my way through 3-5+ huge warning signs that I didn't belong in that area. Tss. Eh... I'm not thrilled about starting over but damn it this week of play has been, holy crap. This has been one of the best computer gaming experiences of my life. I'm going to create the same character I did last time but replay it using the new knowledge I've acquired. Sigh... this is awesome. Punishment, in just the right way. Bah!!

 

 

What did you wipe on? 

Edited April 3, 2015 by PIP-Clownboy

[Malignacious]

I don't like to have large parties, 3 is maximum for me so, so hard difficulty is not an option.

[ComplyOrDie]

 

 

Another thread, and I'm slowly accepting that I must just be terrible at video games. Alternatively, everyone else plays with a full team including hired adventurers.

Um just no. Finding hard easy has nothing to do with hired adventurers. It has everything to do with over leveling from what I can see.

Min-maxed hired adventurers don't affect the difficulty? I beg to differ.

 

I'm not sure if it's possible to really overlevel in a game with a low level cap and so scarce kill XP. The most you can do is skip the hardest battles and return later, but that's just normal behavior. You still need to do quests to level up at all, so if they're too easy, they're just too easy. However, I suspect some people steamrolling the game were hit with the stat bug. I saw someone with huge, clearly unnatural AoEs who didn't notice anything was wrong.

 

 

He is right in that experience is too easy to get too early, or rather, you get too much for each quest. If you do any respectable number of side quests you hit levels 4 5 6 very quickly. This does have a big affect on the difficulty. I don't think it's unfair to want to play the game and enjoy the quests while maintaining a challenge, rather than having to try to "manage" your difficulty. Of course doing quests will make things easier, but it's a bit dramatic at the moment.

 

The other major factor is enemy accuracy versus the deflection of your main tank. 60 70 80 deflection is very easy to get very early. Many of the enemies have very low accuracies even on Path where they have been increased by 50%. For example many human enemies such as in Raedric's Hold, many spiders and Xaurips etc. have accuracy in the 30-40s on Path, meaning 20-30 on other settings. In Black Meadow on Path you find groups of three Forest Trolls, which you would think would be difficult. Unfortunately, they have an accuracy of 41, and your tank deflection will already be +20 on this. Eder also has the recovery traits, so even when the occasional hit does get through, he has fully healed by the time the next one lands. We did discuss this earlier in the thread but on testing these figures all seem to check out.

 

There are many many encounters where this is the primary problem, and you do not need custom made adventurers to experience it (I have never hired one). I have got to the last battle on Path (which is very hard by the way), and as mentioned earlier, there have been very few difficult encounters throughout the whole main quest. I have deliberately avoided side quests or even min maxing on gear. However, if you take away the tank who can stand there and take it for as long as you like, it becomes far more challenging very very quickly, you have to cc, build an offtank reducing your dps, etc. etc.

 

The example of the boars above is perfect. These boars are encountered very early on. On path they have an accuracy of 77, meaning just over 50 on hard. This is far far higher than anything nearby, and is in fact higher than most enemies in the entire game including some of the powerful magic enemies later on (Caen Gwla for example). The boars are challenging because you die very fast to them, and you die very fast to them because they are one of the few enemies with a reasonable chance of hitting you rather than grazing or missing.

 

Unfortunately the way the difficulty scaling works, if you up enemy accuracy on hard, its also upped on easy which I don't think anybody wants.

 

Solution? Nerf experience gain on Path, increase enemy accuracy bonus on Path to at least 75%. If you find hard too easy, try Path (this is a fair argument but I can see why a big big jump isn't what all Hard players want). I don't see another way to not piss all the easy/normal players off though.

Edited April 3, 2015 by ComplyOrDie

[safer]

Yeah i must say the experience gain is far too much.. im in act 1 potd doing the dryford ruins sidequest and my party is level 8... i think the big problem are the bounty quest.. each one gave a total of 12/13k exp =/ 

[sparklecat]

I think xp needs to be turned down across the board for side content, not just on PoTD.

[demeisen]

side quests or even min maxing on gear. However, if you take away the tank who can stand there and take it for as long as you like, it becomes far more challenging very very quickly, you have to cc, build an offtank reducing your dps, etc. etc.

 

The example of the boars above is perfect. These boars are encountered very early on. On path they have an accuracy of 77, meaning just over 50 on hard. This is far far higher Solution? Nerf experience gain on Path,

 

 

I think you're onto something here.  I also feel that much of the "easiness" comes from my tank being too invulnerable, and without that, suddenly a new dimension opens up in how combat works.

 

Maybe there needs to be a modest exp gain nerf on Hard, and a bigger one on Path, and leave Easy/Normal alone for more casual players.  Or like Sparklecat said up above, exp turned down for side quests so you don't over-level the main plot lines.  When I find a level-appropriate fight, it's really a lot of fun!

[Justinian]

A second thread discussing difficulty and outlevelling content:

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/75084-not-a-bug-but-definitely-needs-to-be-reported-xp/

[Starwars]

Personally I would welcome a bit less XP, playing on Hard.

[Hatred]

 

 

Another thread, and I'm slowly accepting that I must just be terrible at video games. Alternatively, everyone else plays with a full team including hired adventurers.

Um just no. Finding hard easy has nothing to do with hired adventurers. It has everything to do with over leveling from what I can see.

Min-maxed hired adventurers don't affect the difficulty? I beg to differ.

 

I'm not sure if it's possible to really overlevel in a game with a low level cap and so scarce kill XP. The most you can do is skip the hardest battles and return later, but that's just normal behavior. You still need to do quests to level up at all, so if they're too easy, they're just too easy. However, I suspect some people steamrolling the game were hit with the stat bug. I saw someone with huge, clearly unnatural AoEs who didn't notice anything was wrong.

 

 I am not steamrolling the game because of some stat bug. There is too much XP. I was level 10 when I reached Dyrford Village. I believe in the backer beta they were doing it at level 5 or 6. 

 

Edit : if someone could confirm what the backer beta starting level was I would appreciate it. Also @ Rosveen : Please trust obsessive people to notice things about which they are obsessed. I actually did have one toon go out of control with stats. Kana. Kana now lives in the Inn at my keep. Its a good thing though because I don't really go there much.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Hatred

[PIP-Clownboy]

Yeah i must say the experience gain is far too much.. im in act 1 potd doing the dryford ruins sidequest and my party is level 8... i think the big problem are the bounty quest.. each one gave a total of 12/13k exp =/ 

 

Lvl 8 isn't really THAT high for Dyrford. No one forced  you to do the bounty quests, which are meant to be some of the toughest battles in the game, before Dyrford which you can go to almost immediately after Act 1. 

[DocDoomII]

I finished act 1 (and all side quests, I think) at level 5 while being able to get 2 upgrades for my castle. Aren't bounties supposed to be available with some advanced upgrade?

How the heck did you manage to spend so much time in act 1?

[Hatred]

 

Yeah i must say the experience gain is far too much.. im in act 1 potd doing the dryford ruins sidequest and my party is level 8... i think the big problem are the bounty quest.. each one gave a total of 12/13k exp =/ 

 

Lvl 8 isn't really THAT high for Dyrford. No one forced  you to do the bounty quests, which are meant to be some of the toughest battles in the game, before Dyrford which you can go to almost immediately after Act 1. 

 

 What kind of a bull**** response is this. The side quests clearly give way to much xp. Also if those bounty quests are hard then ... idk what to say. They are fkn easy at level 7 or 8. You should have the option to do quests without ruining the game. 

[Xiraiya]

I'm playing hard setting and i find the game too easy, i'm not even an hardcore gamer, i completed Baldur's Gate  (at time) only on normal settings. I'm at 12 hours of game.

 

Would be fine a new difficulty level between hard and pod, or buffing hard mode.

Considering that "Hard" has the intended setup for the game, I think it's more that Hard is "Normal" and Normal is "Easy" and Easy is "Very Easy" etc.

 

So try Path of the damned.

[safer]

I finished act 1 (and all side quests, I think) at level 5 while being able to get 2 upgrades for my castle. Aren't bounties supposed to be available with some advanced upgrade?

How the heck did you manage to spend so much time in act 1?

 

you can get the bounties as a 3rd upgrade if im not mistaken.. aniway its the only quests that really gave me the impression of getting too much exp.. i did 3 quest in a row at lvl 7 and i got 3k+ for killing the objective and 11+k for turning in the quest.. that almost got me enough to get to lvl 8!  

[ComplyOrDie]

 

 

Yeah i must say the experience gain is far too much.. im in act 1 potd doing the dryford ruins sidequest and my party is level 8... i think the big problem are the bounty quest.. each one gave a total of 12/13k exp =/

 

 

Lvl 8 isn't really THAT high for Dyrford. No one forced  you to do the bounty quests, which are meant to be some of the toughest battles in the game, before Dyrford which you can go to almost immediately after Act 1.

 What kind of a bull**** response is this. The side quests clearly give way to much xp. Also if those bounty quests are hard then ... idk what to say. They are fkn easy at level 7 or 8. You should have the option to do quests without ruining the game.

For some perspective, the backer beta was set in dyrford and you were lvl 4/5, and it wasn't too hard at all. Path of the damned is also plagued by over experience and poor enemy accuracy scores.

[Hatred]

 

I'm playing hard setting and i find the game too easy, i'm not even an hardcore gamer, i completed Baldur's Gate  (at time) only on normal settings. I'm at 12 hours of game.

 

Would be fine a new difficulty level between hard and pod, or buffing hard mode.

Considering that "Hard" has the intended setup for the game, I think it's more that Hard is "Normal" and Normal is "Easy" and Easy is "Very Easy" etc.

 

So try Path of the damned.

 

 The catch here is that once you realise you are over leveled and you start snoozing you cannot switch to path of the damned. Also if potd is hard then what is there for people who actually want very hard ?

[ComplyOrDie]

Path is too easy for the majority due to reasons above. A few level appropriate encounters are what I was expecting (temple of eothas at lvl 3, final battle)

[tinderbox]

I just had my entire party flattened by the Searing Falls cave boss fight. Ther's definitely a bit of a learning curve on hard, even if you're experienced with the system from the beta and have a ton of experience with IE games.

 

Put a step wrong, and you'll get nailed. It seems very hard to recover once you're on the back foot in the big fights. Perhaps more importantly, your opening is vital. I know it says that in the PE strat guide but it's worth reinforcing that so often it's the key to winning the combat.

 

I do think some of the standard combats are a little routine (but that was often the same in IE games as well). I found clearning Od Nua level 4 a bit of a doddle, for example, after finding lvl 3 a real trial.

 

I'm not sure how Obsidian would go about putting more challenge into those encounters tho -- I don't think more creatures would be the answer. There's not much difference betwen wiping 5 Xaurips and wiping 10 once you've got their measure. At the other end, I would fear that bumping stats would make the boss fights impossible -- for me, at least. (That's why I'm not doing POTD -- yet)

Edited April 4, 2015 by tinderbox