Sensuki Posted March 14, 2015 Author Posted March 14, 2015 It looks so....soulless to me. Why don't they just say "spell damage increased by 20%"? Easier to comprehend and it *looks* so much more impressive. I agree, but moreso because x1.2 damage is not correct anymore, it is actually +20% base damage. 1
morhilane Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 It looks so....soulless to me. Why don't they just say "spell damage increased by 20%"? Easier to comprehend and it *looks* so much more impressive. I agree, but moreso because x1.2 damage is not correct anymore, it is actually +20% base damage. They need to do a pass on the tooltips: some read x1.2 damages, some reads +20 damage (missing the %) and I think I've seen one with the correct +20%. Azarhal, Chanter and Keeper of Truth of the Obsidian Order of Eternity.
Sensuki Posted March 14, 2015 Author Posted March 14, 2015 Yeah I've posted a few suggestions about them in the bug forums.
AndreaColombo Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 I meant that if you want to point out broken mechanics, it is better to argue it with real game situations rather than a nonaccidental exploit. I have to disagree on this. Because clipping and engagement are currently working as designed, what Sensuki did is a legitimate party according to the rules of the game world. He is not exploiting a bug or an unintentional behavior from the game. A party of 6 fighters cheesing their way through every encounter using disengagement attacks is not only legit, but also the most powerful combination you can possibly have within PoE's rules. If you give it up, you are deliberately crippling yourself in combat / shooting yourself in the foot by going for a vastly inferior build/party for the sake of roleplaying. Which is perfectly legit, mind you—but if the most powerful party you can legitimately have is something you'd actively avoid because it detracts from your fun, that's poor game design. 4 "Time is not your enemy. Forever is." — Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment "It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers." — Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus
Voss Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Does this expolit can be used when you know you will fight a neutral group of enemies just after? If yes, it can be a common situation and not that rare I don't think that at your first playthrough, you will know when will a natural team just turn hostile.It is a d&d style RPG (meaning the focus is on killing people), similar to the ie games. Pissing people off through dialogue is an inevitable result.
morhilane Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Some feebacks on Ranger's pets: - They need some points into athletics, they get tired faster than BB Rogue does. You also don't know it unless you look at the character page (and then you wonder why they only gained 1 endurance at level up). - They need +3 accuracy/deflection every level like everyone else does, that is unless the animal companion bonus is on top of these which is unclear because you can't see all of the pet's stats. Azarhal, Chanter and Keeper of Truth of the Obsidian Order of Eternity.
illathid Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 LARPs Seriously, the only way you can LARP PoE is go into field, dress like a wizard and yell "Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt!" while throwing nerf balls at your overweight friend dressed in armor for someone half his size. The term you want is RP. 5 "Wizards do not need to be The Dudes Who Can AoE Nuke You and Gish and Take as Many Hits as a Fighter and Make all Skills Irrelevant Because Magic." -Josh Sawyer
GreyFox Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 It's a legit issue and one that can easily happen during the midst of regular gameplay...I bet it's happened to people and they didn't even realize it. I would also like the tool tips on stats and damage additions to be correct....instead of saying X1.2 damage it should say what it does....+20% base spell damage.
Sensuki Posted March 14, 2015 Author Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) The problem Uomoz is when multiple mulitpliers are used. x1.2 indicates that it is the result x1.2, but the formula does not work like that, it's now additive, so +20% conveys the information correctly. Instead of 8 x 1.2 x 1.2 it becomes 8 x (1+0.2+0.2) Edited March 14, 2015 by Sensuki 1
tdphys Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 When your characters are all overlapping, what happens when you go into stealth? What if you move in combat? What I really want to know, is how do the characters leave being clipped, when that state has supposedly become non-acceptable? Does it require another movement command which takes into account the new non-clip requirements? You'd think they could just issue movement commands to tell any clipped party members to assume formation at the start of combat to avoid the instag-gib engagement attacks.
Sensuki Posted March 14, 2015 Author Posted March 14, 2015 http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/71016-v480-pathfinding-report/
Stun Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) The term you want is RP. They're synonyms, sorta. The modern day gaming term for what Sensuki is describing IS Larping. In a video game, larping is when you do RPish things "just for fun" or "just to stay in character" when the game doesn't actually recognize that you're doing it. A few examples. In Skyrim, you can choose to eat a meal 3 times a day, and get to sleep by 10 pm every night. Or find a Talos Shrine and make offerings to it. It means Nothing in the game, but...you're staying in character. Good for you! In Baldur's gate 1, you can decide that Joia's house (the house next to the Friendly Arm inn) belongs to you now. And so, you can choose to live in it, sleep in it, use its 2 chests to store stuff etc. In Baldur's gate 2, you can decide to be a Priest of Ilmater. The game does not recognize this. There's no Ilmater cleric Stronghold option. There's no Cleric-specific Ilmater quests. But there are a couple of Ilmater temples, and you can decide that those will be the only temples you frequent, do business with, donate to, etc. Edited March 14, 2015 by Stun 4
Tartantyco Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Still abusing terms, Stun? "You're a fool if you believe I would trust your benevolence. Step aside and you and your lackeys will be unhurt." Baldur's Gate portraits for Pillars of Eternity IXI Icewind Dale portraits for Pillars of Eternity IXI Icewind Dale 2 portraits for Pillars of Eternity [slap Aloth]
Sensuki Posted March 14, 2015 Author Posted March 14, 2015 Well, I'm going to bed, been up for 21 hours mostly testing. Cyas tomorrow. 1
Uomoz Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Well done Sensuki. Overall, not many gamebreaking bugs, I'm pretty happy.
Roby Atadero Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Just FYI, from what I have seen in the code checkins, that disengagement issue with overlapping characters has been fixed. 12 Twitter: @robyatadero
armorb Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Why do people care if others cheese their way through a single player RPG? It neither picks your pocket nor breaks your leg... That's not to say that particular peculiar circumstance shouldn't be fixed.
Odd Hermit Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Why do people care if others cheese their way through a single player RPG? It neither picks your pocket nor breaks your leg... That's not to say that particular peculiar circumstance shouldn't be fixed. There's cheese that interferes with normal gameplay and/or prevents valid tactics from being "legit", blurring lines between what is/isn't an exploit. Some things are clearly cheats. That's fine. Console command yourself all you want. But they shouldn't leave in things that negatively affect combat balance.
theforcewithin Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 I'd just like to chime in as somebody who hasn't played the BB since it was first released till now. The improvements have been fantastic over the whole game. While there are still a few niggles here and there as other posters have shown, I'm not too worried about them. The original IE games all had issues, some more significant than what PoE has even now and it didn't stop them from being beloved classics.
Tanred Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) I meant that if you want to point out broken mechanics, it is better to argue it with real game situations rather than a nonaccidental exploit. I have to disagree on this. Because clipping and engagement are currently working as designed, what Sensuki did is a legitimate party according to the rules of the game world. He is not exploiting a bug or an unintentional behavior from the game. A party of 6 fighters cheesing their way through every encounter using disengagement attacks is not only legit, but also the most powerful combination you can possibly have within PoE's rules. If you give it up, you are deliberately crippling yourself in combat / shooting yourself in the foot by going for a vastly inferior build/party for the sake of roleplaying. Which is perfectly legit, mind you—but if the most powerful party you can legitimately have is something you'd actively avoid because it detracts from your fun, that's poor game design. After playing the latest build, I noticed the clipping changes removed one of the most glaring issues - pathfinding, which now works way better both in and out of combat. This is something much more important than an occasional disengagement attack that you can possibly do from time to time due to the clipping/engagement bug (which I believe will be fixed anyway). And I think that the exploit did not show an unintentional behaviour - it requires some effort to pile up your characters this way, especially in a normal combat scenario when you are attacked on sight (I tried it). This "tactic" would be even irrational sometimes - for example when facing AoE or ranged enemies or with a different party composition - so I can't agree it is that powerful as you claim to be. In my opinion the overall gameplay experience is much more better now. Edited March 14, 2015 by Tanred
Striped_Wolf Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) Having pondered the disengagement exploit further, I realized I dont quite get it. Why did the characters get disengagement attacks in the first place? I couldnt see anyone leaving the engagement area. The enemy simply exploded at first contact. What triggered it? Did it have to do with the stacking of characters at all?Downside with stacking characters would also be high exposure to AoE attacks. Edited March 14, 2015 by Striped_Wolf
talharbash Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Having pondered the disengagement exploit further, I realized I dont quite get it. Why did the characters get disengagement attacks in the first place? I couldnt see anyone leaving the engagement area. The enemy simply exploded at first contact. What triggered it? Did it have to do with the stacking of characters at all? Downside with stacking characters would also be high exposure to AoE attacks. The stacking messed up the way disengagement was being calculated so as soon as they got into melee range they got hit with a bunch of disengagement attacks. I think it just kept looping the attacks over and over. Having not seen the code I couldn't say -exactly- why.
Striped_Wolf Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) Having pondered the disengagement exploit further, I realized I dont quite get it. Why did the characters get disengagement attacks in the first place? I couldnt see anyone leaving the engagement area. The enemy simply exploded at first contact. What triggered it? Did it have to do with the stacking of characters at all? Downside with stacking characters would also be high exposure to AoE attacks. The stacking messed up the way disengagement was being calculated so as soon as they got into melee range they got hit with a bunch of disengagement attacks. I think it just kept looping the attacks over and over. Having not seen the code I couldn't say -exactly- why. A guess would be that engagement attacks are triggered against moving targets inside the engagement area, rather than targets leaving the engagement area (which is how I think it should work). So when they move in to attack one target in the stack, they are actually trespassing on 6 different engagement areas at the same time. IF so, an easy fix would be for each engagement attack to also provide engagament attack immunity for 1 second. Edited March 14, 2015 by Striped_Wolf
Uomoz Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 There's no point in arguing over this. It has been fixed as stated above.
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