435 Discussion

[Sensuki]

Might and Intellect are definitely two of the best attributes in the current system. I'm interested in seeing what Dex is like when it's fixed, but I'm a little bit worried about how well Perception and Resolve will go, even with the changes coming.

[Sensuki]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70361-435-severe-fps-lag-from-armor-of-faith-vfx-over-the-top-after-fx/

 

- Post here to remove the silly after FX from the Armor of Faith spell

 

 

To be honest I don't like how the targeting reticles are stagnant unless you're mousing over an enemy with an AoE. I preferred it when they were moving.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Sensuki

[constantine]

Might and Intellect are definitely two of the best attributes in the current system. I'm interested in seeing what Dex is like when it's fixed, but I'm a little bit worried about how well Perception and Resolve will go, even with the changes coming.

I think PER-RES will be more useful now that they give bonuses in integers.

 

INT is definetely a very useful stat, be it an AoE + duration % bonus (especially since effect durations are so long in the game).

 

I'm worried about MIG though, I've been thinking, say you attack for 16-28 dmg (22average) and you've pumped MIG to 16 for +18%bonus dmg, this in result will increase your average dmg to 26 (25.96 rounded up).

 

What worries me is that dmg in the range of 22 average is dealt by two-handed weapons, so one-handed and faster versions will get even less value out of MIG..

[Sensuki]

The damage ranges of weapons do need to be tuned, because currently they're balanced against 0 DT, but they're not balanced against DT

 

You can make dual wielding have good DPS with the two weapon fighting feat though

[morhilane]

The way I see it, might is useful for slow hitting weapons, but speed is the way too go with smaller weapons.

[Sensuki]

Not really, the faster you attack - the more often you oppose DT, so you're effectively raising the DT of the enemy by the same % as your attack speed bonus.

[constantine]

The way I see it, might is useful for slow hitting weapons, but speed is the way too go with smaller weapons.

(correct me if wrong 'cause I don't have access to beta and my knowledge is limited by what I read in the forums)

 

Slow, high-dmg weapons benefit the most out of Might and Dexterity (highest dmg output + longest recovery times).

 

Two-weapon fighting style gives +25% to speed, which equals with 8 points in Dexterity, and I think is redundant to go for more speed than that.

[Shevek]

All these DT balance problems... sigh... if only they kept the old armor system. Combat felt better to me dmg wise for light and heavy weapons in v364.

[Sensuki]

Slow high damage weapons benefit most from more damage IMO

[constantine]

Slow high damage weapons benefit most from more damage IMO

So you suggest that every point in MIG gets you more DPS than putting the point in DEX ?

[Sensuki]

the Action Speed bonus from Dex has never worked properly, so it's hard to tell for sure, but the maths says Might is better for DPS.

 

Dex is good for getting more actions and that is valuable if you want to drink potions, need to cast lots of abilities/spells etc

 

There are probably cases where Dex does provide more DPS than Might does though, but they would be edge cases.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Sensuki

[constantine]

If only they had designed the whole attribute system to give integers instead of % ..

 

And I've never understood the deal with .8, .6, .something damage calculations. Doesn't the system round up/down ?

Edited February 7, 2015 by constantine

[Luckmann]

the Action Speed bonus from Dex has never worked properly, so it's hard to tell for sure, but the maths says Might is better for DPS.

 

Dex is good for getting more actions and that is valuable if you want to drink potions, need to cast lots of abilities/spells etc

 

There are probably cases where Dex does provide more DPS than Might does though, but they would be edge cases.

 

More quickly swigging of potions might actually be quite valuable. While a high-Might character might have a higher DPS total, someone with a higher action count have more options and can change what he's doing from action to action.

 

Might (no pun intended) end up being worth it, it's hard to tell.

[AndreaColombo]

 It's not that it's wrong, it's that it's plainly one of the most optimal choices. The goal should be for all Attributes to be somewhat equally viable in some capacity for each class, and it'd be nice if the attributes matched up somewhat with the overall class concepts.

 

While I agree with you that Resolve should not be a dump stat for paladins, I believe many people are misinterpreting Josh's stated intentions with regards to the attribute system. IIRC, he never meant for all stats to be equally good for all classes—rather, he wanted to avoid a situation where a class built around certain attributes would result in a completely hopeless character.

 

E.g. if you build a barbarian with high INT and low STR in any IE games, you'll soon find that you're screwed and your character ain't but a deadweight. If you do the same in PoE, your character will still be viable and able do something in and outside combat, albeit suboptimal versus other builds. (this is just an example; I know a barbarian with low MIG makes no sense in PoE too).

 

Not saying that this is the best possible way to build an attribute system and/or everyone should be happy with the status quo and agree with Josh. It is perfectly fine to advocate that all stats should be equally viable for all classes. All I'm saying is that, to the best of my recollection, that was not Josh's goal when designing PoE's attribute system.

[Sensuki]

Managed to produce some bizarre results doing my usual Medreth encounter kiting trick, video incoming. It's pretty broken in this build.

[CottonWolf]

E.g. if you build a barbarian with high INT and low STR in any IE games, you'll soon find that you're screwed and your character ain't but a deadweight. If you do the same in PoE, your character will still be viable and able do something in and outside combat, albeit suboptimal versus other builds. (this is just an example; I know a barbarian with low MIG makes no sense in PoE too).

 

You'd be surprised. Build an average MIG/CON barbarian, take greater frenzy, max INT -> have long buff +6 to MIG/CON spend the remaining points elsewhere.

[Sensuki]

Mmm

 

[Sensuki]

They need to fix that issue with Ranger Animal Companions and Rangers having split Health lol

[Luckmann]

 

It's not that it's wrong, it's that it's plainly one of the most optimal choices. The goal should be for all Attributes to be somewhat equally viable in some capacity for each class, and it'd be nice if the attributes matched up somewhat with the overall class concepts.

 

While I agree with you that Resolve should not be a dump stat for paladins, I believe many people are misinterpreting Josh's stated intentions with regards to the attribute system. IIRC, he never meant for all stats to be equally good for all classes—rather, he wanted to avoid a situation where a class built around certain attributes would result in a completely hopeless character.

 

E.g. if you build a barbarian with high INT and low STR in any IE games, you'll soon find that you're screwed and your character ain't but a deadweight. If you do the same in PoE, your character will still be viable and able do something in and outside combat, albeit suboptimal versus other builds. (this is just an example; I know a barbarian with low MIG makes no sense in PoE too).

 

Not saying that this is the best possible way to build an attribute system and/or everyone should be happy with the status quo and agree with Josh. It is perfectly fine to advocate that all stats should be equally viable for all classes. All I'm saying is that, to the best of my recollection, that was not Josh's goal when designing PoE's attribute system.

 

 

Of course, you are entirely correct and I apologize if something lead you to misinterpret what I said. All attributes shouldn't be equally good for all classes, but the goal should be for all attrbutes to be somewhat equally viable in some capacity for each class, and it'd be nice if the attributes matched up somewhat with the overall class concepts.

 

Right now, there is nothing suboptimal with a PoE Barbarian doing High-INT Low-MIG, though. Intelligence shouldn't be useless for Barbarians by any means, but it shouldn't be their primary stat for a min/max build, and ultimately, no stat should be a clear dump stat for any class (but might be for certain specialized builds or character concepts).

 

The reason I raise specifically Intelligence for Barbarians as a pump stat and Resolve for Paladins as a dump stat is because those are the most glaring oddities that I've noticed so far.

 

 

And also because I hate it on a personal level because I want to play a high-Resolve Paladin without utterly gimping myself.

 

 

They need to fix that issue with Ranger Animal Companions and Rangers having split Health lol

That poor boar. D: Edited February 7, 2015 by Luckmann

[Starwars]

Just got creamed pretty badly in the final cultist fight on Hard. I really have a problem sorting out what's happening in these bigger fights, especially if there are caster involved.

But yeah, as far as my earlier comment that human parties were disappointing, well... This fits the bell as challenging I think.

[Sock]

Just got creamed pretty badly in the final cultist fight on Hard. I really have a problem sorting out what's happening in these bigger fights, especially if there are caster involved.

But yeah, as far as my earlier comment that human parties were disappointing, well... This fits the bell as challenging I think.

 

Yeah, that fight becomes quickly impossible if you don't kill the Preacher asap. The preacher has Beloved of Spirits, which stacks each time it goes off. I had to reload that fight 20 times trying to kill that preacher in PoD. 

 

Also not 100% certain, but I think that the ancient spirits continues to work even if the chanter is defeated in the fight. The cipher enemy in that fight kept regenerating health after I killed the chanter, but no one else seemed to.

[morhilane]

 

Just got creamed pretty badly in the final cultist fight on Hard. I really have a problem sorting out what's happening in these bigger fights, especially if there are caster involved.

But yeah, as far as my earlier comment that human parties were disappointing, well... This fits the bell as challenging I think.

 

Yeah, that fight becomes quickly impossible if you don't kill the Preacher asap. The preacher has Beloved of Spirits, which stacks each time it goes off. I had to reload that fight 20 times trying to kill that preacher in PoD. 

 

Also not 100% certain, but I think that the ancient spirits continues to work even if the chanter is defeated in the fight. The cipher enemy in that fight kept regenerating health after I killed the chanter, but no one else seemed to.

 

 

Are you sure the Cipher didn't have the leeching shield spell (psychovampiric something)?

[aeonsim]

 

 

Just got creamed pretty badly in the final cultist fight on Hard. I really have a problem sorting out what's happening in these bigger fights, especially if there are caster involved.

But yeah, as far as my earlier comment that human parties were disappointing, well... This fits the bell as challenging I think.

 

Yeah, that fight becomes quickly impossible if you don't kill the Preacher asap. The preacher has Beloved of Spirits, which stacks each time it goes off. I had to reload that fight 20 times trying to kill that preacher in PoD. 

 

Also not 100% certain, but I think that the ancient spirits continues to work even if the chanter is defeated in the fight. The cipher enemy in that fight kept regenerating health after I killed the chanter, but no one else seemed to.

 

 

Are you sure the Cipher didn't have the leeching shield spell (psychovampiric something)?

 

Psychovampric shield is only supposed to steal enemies Resolve/Intellect and give you an amount of Deflection as a bonus for a short time period, it doesn't heal them.

[morhilane]

 

 

 

Just got creamed pretty badly in the final cultist fight on Hard. I really have a problem sorting out what's happening in these bigger fights, especially if there are caster involved.

But yeah, as far as my earlier comment that human parties were disappointing, well... This fits the bell as challenging I think.

 

Yeah, that fight becomes quickly impossible if you don't kill the Preacher asap. The preacher has Beloved of Spirits, which stacks each time it goes off. I had to reload that fight 20 times trying to kill that preacher in PoD. 

 

Also not 100% certain, but I think that the ancient spirits continues to work even if the chanter is defeated in the fight. The cipher enemy in that fight kept regenerating health after I killed the chanter, but no one else seemed to.

 

 

Are you sure the Cipher didn't have the leeching shield spell (psychovampiric something)?

 

Psychovampric shield is only supposed to steal enemies Resolve/Intellect and give you an amount of Deflection as a bonus for a short time period, it doesn't heal them.

 

 

Your right, I always get confused by the name and I believe it changed behavior at some point too.

[wanderon]

Couple things I noticed yesterday -

 

a bug I had not seen for a while where weapons/shields become attached to PCs or NPCs - one of the backer NPCs at the inn had an ax protruding from the top of his head altho upon further review this is actually stuck into the wall near his head and may be part of the inn decor???

 

something I had not seen before - my combat log stopped working - right after a slowdown (due to a plethora of spells/effects?) at the Medreth battle and it was still stopped after going past beetles and adventurers and Dragon Egg - when I reloaded the game today the combat log was extended up (as I left it) but had shrunk from side to side almost to the edge of the screen - still there (not removed) but almost completely closed and could not be opened - this was the solid one so perhaps it still has some issues. 

 

EDIT: changing back to normal instead of solid brought it back

Edited February 9, 2015 by wanderon