Another incident with black men getting shot by police

Meshugger · February 2, 2015

Reasonable demand:

While technically true, as in cops should arrest people for crimes committed. However, has this woman no shame at all? Seriously, is she mentally retarded or intellectually stunted? Emotionally shocked?

What kind of parent would publicy admit that their son is a robber, a criminal, and someone that should be treated better? What kind or relatives or community approves of this? In the normal world, people like her would be too embaressed to even exit the house. They would be shunned by the community and ostrasized until her son has shown repentance. Must often, they just have to move and start anew.

But if she suffers from any of the symptoms mentioned above, it is at least understandable.

Barothmuk · February 2, 2015

Crime rates in Japan have exponentially more to do with the culture there than the way laws are enforced. This is generally true of anywhere.
True, the culture is a major reason but so is the law and the way it is enforced.

My knowledge of modern Japanese society is pretty basic however I am aware that within their police force their is a culture of keeping crime statistics low, avoiding investigating homicides without a clear culprit and labelling "unnatural deaths" as suicides.

Worth noting.

Valsuelm · February 2, 2015

And here we have police beating kids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwdzAVLY5QU

This is actually all too common. Similar things have happened more than once at the various high schools in my area in the last decade or so.

There's really no good reason for the vast majority of schools to have armed cops or security working there.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Valsuelm

Hurlshort · February 2, 2015

My wife works in a school with gang violence. She has had students physically confront her, one girl actually shoved her when she was pregnant. So I'm pretty comfortable with the idea of having an officer or two on her campus.

Volourn · February 2, 2015

Should arm them with bazookas too. That'll show the kids a thing or two!

Gorgon · February 2, 2015

I like how the sign says 'every time'. Like a couple of times a week ?

Gfted1 · February 2, 2015

My wife works in a school with gang violence. She has had students physically confront her, one girl actually shoved her when she was pregnant. So I'm pretty comfortable with the idea of having an officer or two on her campus.

You only think that way because youre a sheep.

213374U · February 2, 2015

shouldn't be a surprise. a suspect who has committed a violent crime runs away from cops without pulling a weapon and aiming at cops or bystanders. the suspect later shoots some old man or rapes an old lady... or the reverse. how many times does that happen before folks change laws applied to cops use o' deadly force on suspects who is reasonable suspects o' violent crimes but who is not immediate threats?

*shrug*

aside, the Court upheld the fleeing felon rule back in 1985. the rules for cops to use deadly force is not the same as for ordinary citizens. have seen that bit o' myth used multiple times in this thread and others like it.

HA! Good Fun!

Look, I know that as an Euro, I can go "sit and spin*". But...

We used to have something similar over here. It was routinely abused to execute "fleeing" prisoners, political undesirables, union members, etc. How the hell is that even supervised? Doesn't that kinda go against due process and presumption of innocence? I don't even...

*just tried it. Nothing happened. I must be doing someting wrong. Post a tutorial video perhaps?

My wife works in a school with gang violence. She has had students physically confront her, one girl actually shoved her when she was pregnant. So I'm pretty comfortable with the idea of having an officer or two on her campus.

Sorry to hear that. You have my sincere respect. The work of teachers is as important as it is underrated. A sad state of affairs.

Edited February 2, 2015 by 213374U

Amentep · February 2, 2015

Reasonable demand:

Pic is manipulated.

Real picture here - http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2014/10/jailhouse_tales_an_protester_who_was_arrested_sunday_night_tells_about_her_experience.php

Snopes article - http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/fergusonsign.asp

Gromnir · February 2, 2015

shouldn't be a surprise. a suspect who has committed a violent crime runs away from cops without pulling a weapon and aiming at cops or bystanders. the suspect later shoots some old man or rapes an old lady... or the reverse. how many times does that happen before folks change laws applied to cops use o' deadly force on suspects who is reasonable suspects o' violent crimes but who is not immediate threats?

*shrug*

aside, the Court upheld the fleeing felon rule back in 1985. the rules for cops to use deadly force is not the same as for ordinary citizens. have seen that bit o' myth used multiple times in this thread and others like it.

HA! Good Fun!

Look, I know that as an Euro, I can go "sit and spin*". But...

We used to have something similar over here. It was routinely abused to execute "fleeing" prisoners, political undesirables, union members, etc. How the hell is that even supervised? Doesn't that kinda go against due process and presumption of innocence? I don't even...

well, the obvious response is that it ain't used over here to "routinely" execute folks, in spite o' what you see on rt. we got any number o' reasonableness and good faith standards that works very well. cops still gotta show that they were indeed acting reasonable, which is frequent tough to show when you shoot an unarmed and innocent person in the back.

is usa circa 2015... is not wild west. is not eastern europe. is not china. is not a japanese prison where you can be beaten for raising your eyes w/o permission.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited February 2, 2015 by Gromnir

Zoraptor · February 2, 2015

Reasonable demand:

Pic is manipulated.

And not manipulated very well either. They get some points for using horrible jpeg compression* to reduce the quality and hide the manipulation artefacts under jpg artefacts** but that reduction in quality is itself an indicator of trying to hide manipulation- there's no way the picture was taken on a 2000 era cell phone.

Overall, anyone believing it was accurate should put some points into skepticism next time they level up.

*plus a local blur effect most probably since the background quality isn't any where near as bad as the foreground

**Yo dawg, Xzibit.jpg etc

Edited February 2, 2015 by Zoraptor

Gorgon · February 2, 2015

When I think about it it seems obvious from the context, but I don't buy that you can tell with the naked eye. Well, you can tell if you know it already.

Rosbjerg · February 2, 2015

It was probably spotted without foreknowledge.. With the naked eye you can tell that all the lower letters are copies from the rest of the text. Except for the B (which has been made by manipulating the D in should).

Orogun01 · February 2, 2015

When I think about it it seems obvious from the context, but I don't buy that you can tell with the naked eye. Well, you can tell if you know it already.

When you zoom in you can see the contrast in the pixels and tell which portions were modified.

Amentep · February 2, 2015

I guessed it for a different reason - I couldn't believe he'd create a sign using all the space from edge to edge on 5 lines then suddenly center the last two leaving a huge blank area. From there it was easy to spot the letter re-use and find the debunking on Snopes, which led to the original pic.

Zoraptor · February 2, 2015

In particular reusing the letters in the additional part (O, S, R) identically is pretty half hearted. Even something like that final E is better, it's clearly copied from the E at the end of 'TIME' but at least it isn't identically copied and reused.

When I think about it it seems obvious from the context, but I don't buy that you can tell with the naked eye. Well, you can tell if you know it already.

You generally cannot be sure from a cursory examination- it is after all possible that whoever was uploading the photo was just being kind to anyone stuck on 2400 baud modem and wanted to post a horrendously jpegged image so their load times would be reduced- but it is frequently possible to get a 'hmm' reaction just from a cursory examination. In this case:

1) Low res, high artefact for no good reason

2) The writing looks odd, even on a quick look

3) (meta) It's similar to the very often manipulated and memetic 'behead those who insult [extra text]' muslim demonstration placard, if you've ever seen them

4) (meta) The subject is a controversial one, some people will want to make a 'point' out of it

The human eye is actually pretty good at picking up inconsistencies, even if a lot of it is just of the 'odd feeling' type- albeit such pattern recognition also has false positives such as a tendency to see faces and the like in toast/ clouds and other random patterns.

Gromnir · February 3, 2015

quick aside:

when Gromnir uses legal word o' art such as reasonable or malice or any o' a hundred other such descriptors, it would be a mistake to thinks we is using those words as they appear in a dictionary. what is reasonable in the context o' passing Constitutional muster is Not dictionary reasonableness. is a whole line o' cases that illustrate what ain't reasonable as a matter of law. Constitutional "reasonable" is far less subjective than is dictionary reasonable, or even tort reasonable.

assume that a cop gets a call on his radio that a latino male between 5'10" and 6'3" wearing a hoodie, and weighing between 200 and 250lbs were involved in a rape at gunpoint in the local area. that don't mean that a cop would be legal reasonable if he shot any freaking latino who conformed to the above physical description and chose to run when the cop stopped to question him.

we has brought this up in another thread, but legal reasonable in the United States is actual very different than similar terminology used in western europe. the kinda reasonableness we require for warrants n' such is much higher than in france or england. what western europeans typical consider to be legal reasonable is amounting to no more than mere suspicion here in the United States.

*shrug*

law is weird.

HA! Good Fun!

Meshugger · February 3, 2015

Reasonable demand:

Pic is manipulated.

Real picture here - http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2014/10/jailhouse_tales_an_protester_who_was_arrested_sunday_night_tells_about_her_experience.php

Snopes article - http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/fergusonsign.asp

Faith in humanity: Restored.

Guard Dog · February 4, 2015

I guess right away when I first saw that. Even if they guy were a total fool and made the sign for real, someone at the rally would have "corrected" him.

You gotta admit though, it was funny.

Elerond · February 5, 2015

If information given by this site is anywhere near correct there is quite lot incidents where police causes death of another person in USA, as according site there has been already 104 such incidents in this year alone and only three days when somebody has not died because of actions of police officers and for last year they have recorded 1966 such incidents.

http://killedbypolice.net/

Anybody know if information in the site is mainly correct or false as going through all their links would take too much for me actually to check site's legitimacy myself.

Gromnir · February 5, 2015

the ONLY thing we should take from this thread is that one believes random internet facts/information at their own peril. that being said, we don't actual know genuine numbers. the cdc shows numbers for homicides and death by legal intervention n' such, but am knowing the conspiracy nuts don't like any government source.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/mortality_public_use_data.htm

there is a goodly amount of variation from year-to-year, but 500 is on high side for legal intervention deaths. total homicides is closer to 16,000 or 17,000 and firearm killings account for, on average, 11,000 to 12,000 o' those homicides. 500 out of 16,000 homicides is cop caused. oh, and aspirin and similar non-prescription pain killers account for a similar number o' american deaths as does homicides. suicides account for 19,000 to 20,000 american deaths.

http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/homicides

in chicago alone, there has been 32 homicides this year, and am recalling that last year were actual a comparative good year for homicides with only 432 homicides total.

the United States is a large nation that is culturally and economically diverse. the diversity causes much conflict, and the availability o' firearms means that the conflicts has a good chance o' resulting in serious injury or death. nevertheless, the relative number o' cop homicides in the US is very small compared to the numbers o' violent crimes being committed. is not surprising that with our citizens using so much deadly force against each other, the cops might find it necessary to use deadly force to end or prevent some o' that violence. violent crime has actual decreased substantially in recent years, but is still a relative decrease.

again compare cop caused deaths to deaths by aspirin, or deaths by other citizens. cop caused deaths is a tiny number. +4,500 o' those suicides we mentioned above is youth suicides. 500 cop killings per year, given how violent and well-armed our citizenry is, does not make us quail at the meaningless loss o' life. oh, and as noted elsewhere in these threads, you can expect an average o' 100-120 cops to be killed in the line o' duty each year.

HA! Good Fun!

Gfted1 · February 5, 2015

O.M.G.

Ive been beaten to the punch:

Skunk Riot Control Copter.

Hurlshort · February 5, 2015

So about 500 deaths caused by police a year in a nation of 316 million people. Basically I have about the same odds of winning the lottery as I do of getting killed by the police. I think I can increase my odds by buying more lottery tickets OR buying more crystal meth. :aiee:

Malcador · February 5, 2015

Well, if they are really sketchy, I'd hope you would be a bit bothered by it even with a low chance of it happening to you. But then again, they wear badges so never know.

O.M.G.

Ive been beaten to the punch:

Skunk Riot Control Copter.

Yeah right, no danger to protestors when it shoots projectiles I can see this coming though, now your average cop can pilot a drone. When they do that up here, the RCMP is going to kill hundreds, useless bastards all of them :lol:

Gfted1 · February 5, 2015

Yeah right, no danger to protestors when it shoots projectiles I can see this coming though, now your average cop can pilot a drone. When they do that up here, the RCMP is going to kill hundreds, useless bastards all of them

The only projectiles are paintballs or Pepper balls, even a granny could take it. :biggrin: This thing is purpose built to save lives! The US need to develop its own version and flood the skies with drone delivered justice. :yes: Still though, looking forward, our version also needs a built in Taser and net gun.

Another incident with black men getting shot by police

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