Suggestions for the Solid UI

[Sensuki]

As a 'customer' for the Solid UI I would like to throw out some preferences for how it is designed/implemented.

 

Here is a picture of Kaz mucking around with it.

 

 

Here are some preferences/requests that I have:

 

#1: Please segment the Solid UI into three pieces of art. This is for both modding compatibility, so that the three pieces can be moved around on the screen with our IE mod (I would like to swap the positions of the portraits and the log, as then I can actually READ the combat log during combat); and so that people can still minimize HUD elements if they wish.

 

Here is an mspaint example

 

 

You have a file which has all of the UI 'pieces'. Please store the backing for the three elements separately in the file, so that they can be 'accessed' separately in the code.

 

EDIT: For clarification I meant segment in the file itself and how the pieces are accessed only. NOT for the elements to have visual gaps between each other.

 

#2: Please make the Solid HUD symmetrical and position neutral. No dragons sticking out of the top pointing left or anything, if possible.

 

#3: Allow the borders of the combat log to scale with the element itself.

 

 

If the combat log has a backing/border around it, please do not limit the ability to be able to resize the log as I assume that most people who prefer solid UI also like to use the combat log, and in this game you need to increase the size to be able to use it properly.

 

#4: Have gems in the top border of the menu and log elements for collapsing rather than horizontal flaps. Like the IE games.

 

 

The horizontal flaps are a waste of horizontal space and don't look very tidy in the stock UI. Please consider not using them, and having a little gem/button in the center of the solid border of each collapsible element that allows that element to be collapsed.

 

Ideally people with the Solid HUD should get the same functionality as people without, so if people want a solid HUD and want to play with portraits only, they should be able to. That's why I think it's important to make sure the Solid HUD is not just "one backing", but rather three pieces.

 

And finally, make sure that a click on the non-interactable HUD background does not constitute as a click for the purposes of doing anything in the game - such as double clicking to move the camera. Please disconnect clicking on the HUD / doing anything while mousing on the HUD as a separate action from the game. Currently clicking to close the inventory counts as a click for the purposes of doing a double click to perform action (such as moving the camera), which should not be the case - and clicking on the UI shouldn't either.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Sensuki

[Luckmann]

Centre the combat log.

Just centre the damn combat log.

 

It's in the worst possible place right now, and it's also much too small, but more importantly, it needs to be right there in the centre.

 

There is no need to constantly see the menu buttons, nor is there a need to constantly click those buttons. But there is a need to see the combat/dialogue log.

[BlueLion]

I'm becoming more inclined to agree with the solid UI group lately after thinking about it. However, the BG1/2 UI is horrible IMO, far too much space used. I feel the solid UI should only cover one 'edge' of the screen and be as narrow as it can be without detracting from usability. 

[Karkarov]

If they make one consistent backdrop frame with a uniform texture it will be fine as all UI elements would look good regardless of where they are placed on the backdrop.  There is no need for individual background frames for each UI section.

[Sensuki]

If they make one consistent backdrop frame with a uniform texture it will be fine as all UI elements would look good regardless of where they are placed on the backdrop.  There is no need for individual background frames for each UI section.

 

That part is true, although there were other reasons for asking them to be split rather than just one, and the background would also not scale around the log either - which may not look great (dunno yet).

[Karkarov]

 

If they make one consistent backdrop frame with a uniform texture it will be fine as all UI elements would look good regardless of where they are placed on the backdrop.  There is no need for individual background frames for each UI section.

 

That part is true, although there were other reasons for asking them to be split rather than just one, and the background would also not scale around the log either - which may not look great (dunno yet).

You could make it scale it isn't that hard.  Just make the original designed for the highest possible game resolution and the game can auto scale it down from there, I am sure they have some sort of scaling built in already for the various other ui elements.

[Sensuki]

No not that type of scaling, like repeating patterns. The combat log uses a repeating 2D wood texture to cover its increased size, for example.

[Gairnulf]

It's nice to see that the the team has seen the reason behind the idea of a solid UI. Let me reference my threads on the UI from a while back:

UI suggestions: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69228-ui-suggestions/

Latest suggestion in UI suggestions: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69228-ui-suggestions/?p=1531651

Which HUD UI do you prefer (poll): http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69242-which-hud-ui-do-you-prefer/

What does the combat log lack: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69603-what-does-the-combat-log-lack/

 

I'm a bit behind current events, is the solid UI going to be a toggle, or will the game just completely switch to solid UI?

 

I'm also ready to share my psd files with UI drafts with anyone who might need them.

 

Pretty much my words from the first linked thread:

I'm becoming more inclined to agree with the solid UI group lately after thinking about it. However, the BG1/2 UI is horrible IMO, far too much space used. I feel the solid UI should only cover one 'edge' of the screen and be as narrow as it can be without detracting from usability.

 

These too:

Centre the combat log.

Just centre the damn combat log.

 

It's in the worst possible place right now, and it's also much too small, but more importantly, it needs to be right there in the centre.

 

There is no need to constantly see the menu buttons, nor is there a need to constantly click those buttons. But there is a need to see the combat/dialogue log.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Gairnulf

[Cluas]

I'm a bit behind current events, is the solid UI going to be a toggle, or will the game just completely switch to solid UI?

 

There is a toggle in the menu

[Luckmann]

Yeah, let's just clarify here: The option for a Solid UI is already in the Backer Beta. It just.. doesn't do anything.. yet.

So the Solid UI has been planned for quite some time, and is entirely optional. The default still seems to be intended to be Floating UI.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Luckmann

[Kjaamor]

As long as the combat log is to the left or centre, I really don't feel that there's a need to be able shift around the various elements. With the log in place, I'd ideally like something that is solid and aesthetically pleasing rather than something cruder that enables the switching around of parts. To be frank, I always viewed the ability to shift things around as being part of the rationale for the "floating" gui, and to accommodate shifting seems to me like it would serve to make the "solid" gui more of a halfway house between truly solid and floating.

 

Of course, that all sits on the positioning of the log in the "solid" version.

 

More importantly, however, what the hell is the party doing in that Golem battle? Don't they realise that there's a deeply strategic and tactical doorway they should be stood behind?

[Sensuki]

That image is from google

[ryukenden]

quick notes I want to make, just my preference.

 

• The skill/ability icon is really tiny next to the portrait. Can that get a little bigger? I think it would look better if its at the bottom center or something. Its just looks more natural. Maybe because its being using in many games like WOW, LOL, D:OS, etc. 
• The center console (menu bar) can be simplified to a compass/clock. Its also needs to be relocated.
• The combat log works great if its in the center or the left side. IMO I can live without this change. its not bad the way it is now but I know some people want it moved.
•  

[Landak]

I agree with a lot of the above -- the combat log really needs to be adjustable in size, and it probably does deserve to be in the centre -- you read it a lot more than you want the formation buttons, for example. 

 

Does anyone else think that the spell sub-menus (i.e. level 1, etc) are also very easy to mis-click or click through and offer a world command to? 

[Luckmann]

 

quick notes I want to make, just my preference.

 

• The skill/ability icon is really tiny next to the portrait. Can that get a little bigger? I think it would look better if its at the bottom center or something. Its just looks more natural. Maybe because its being using in many games like WOW, LOL, D:OS, etc. 
• The center console (menu bar) can be simplified to a compass/clock. Its also needs to be relocated.
• The combat log works great if its in the center or the left side. IMO I can live without this change. its not bad the way it is now but I know some people want it moved.

 

 

I've been thinking about the menu bar as well, not just as part of the Solid UI, but rather as a whole.

 

It's absolutely huge. I can't help but to think that the developers are stuck in some kind of console-influenced mindset where everything needs to be oversized so you don't miss it while sitting three metres from the TV, but the current Menu Bar is absolutely enormous and blocky, with a big whirling thingy in it. There is no practical reason it needs to be that big, really; it should be pushed down into a radial in one of the corners, around a quarter-clock-gear-thingy, with most of the centre taken up by the dialogue/combat log.

[Karkarov]

I've been thinking about the menu bar as well, not just as part of the Solid UI, but rather as a whole.

 

It's absolutely huge. I can't help but to think that the developers are stuck in some kind of console-influenced mindset where everything needs to be oversized so you don't miss it while sitting three metres from the TV, but the current Menu Bar is absolutely enormous and blocky, with a big whirling thingy in it. There is no practical reason it needs to be that big, really; it should be pushed down into a radial in one of the corners, around a quarter-clock-gear-thingy, with most of the centre taken up by the dialogue/combat log.

It is more to do with scale than anything else.  If your party bar takes up X amount of height then especially in your solid ui X amount of height has been used.... the end.  There is no reason to then not design the main menu ui to take up that much height even if you could get away with less because you are using it anyway right?  Additionally you have to consider how things will look scaled down to low resolutions.  You guys don't know, some dude could be playing this at 720, or even 480.

[Hassat Hunter]

I've already said this dozens of times, but hey, why not another time:

 

* I still want an L shape. Horizontal space is the most, so a vertical bar makes sense... then you can have a really slick thin bottom bar, maximum screen while keeping a nice solid looking UI. I still have no idea why this isn't done.

* Don't stick the combat log in a solid UI. I still get nightmares of the IWD2 bottom bar which was garguantan, just because of the combat log being in it. Worst IE UI ever. Yet I see they want to follow in the same  footsteps here. Don't do it!

[Luckmann]

 

I've been thinking about the menu bar as well, not just as part of the Solid UI, but rather as a whole.

 

It's absolutely huge. I can't help but to think that the developers are stuck in some kind of console-influenced mindset where everything needs to be oversized so you don't miss it while sitting three metres from the TV, but the current Menu Bar is absolutely enormous and blocky, with a big whirling thingy in it. There is no practical reason it needs to be that big, really; it should be pushed down into a radial in one of the corners, around a quarter-clock-gear-thingy, with most of the centre taken up by the dialogue/combat log.

It is more to do with scale than anything else.  If your party bar takes up X amount of height then especially in your solid ui X amount of height has been used.... the end.  There is no reason to then not design the main menu ui to take up that much height even if you could get away with less because you are using it anyway right?  Additionally you have to consider how things will look scaled down to low resolutions.  You guys don't know, some dude could be playing this at 720, or even 480.

 

1.  I wasn't commenting specifically on the Solid UI, I thought I made that clear.
2. Used space is still used space; just because you take up, say, 50px on the left side of the bottom bar doesn't mean you have to take up 50px on the left side.
3. Scalable UI:s are a thing, and there is no reason my game should be held hostage by someone's toaster, and I'm saying this as someone that's got what pretty much amounts to a toaster by most standards today.

 

I've already said this dozens of times, but hey, why not another time:

 

* I still want an L shape. Horizontal space is the most, so a vertical bar makes sense... then you can have a really slick thin bottom bar, maximum screen while keeping a nice solid looking UI. I still have no idea why this isn't done.

* Don't stick the combat log in a solid UI. I still get nightmares of the IWD2 bottom bar which was garguantan, just because of the combat log being in it. Worst IE UI ever. Yet I see they want to follow in the same  footsteps here. Don't do it!

 

I'm not sure I agree with the second point, but the first one makes absolute sense. The IWD/BG1/2 UI was great, and today, we could easily get rid off what was the left-side bar, by relegating it to the bottom, such as an aforementioned radial in one of the corners, or something similar.

 

If you ask me, an L-shape with portraits and effects and so on on a left-side bar would be the best, a radial menu on the lower right (because face it, you won't need it in combat and when you do, it's not a problem eyeing down there) and most of the left-to-middle centre bottom bar taken up by combat/dialogue-log.

[cmergler]

Regarding combat log I am actually fine with how it is, sitting on the side and easily pulled up over the whole height of the screen. I would actually be pretty much annoyed if it would get forced into the center, and also if the option to pull it up would be cut.

Edited January 25, 2015 by cmergler

[Karkarov]

1.  I wasn't commenting specifically on the Solid UI, I thought I made that clear.
2. Used space is still used space; just because you take up, say, 50px on the left side of the bottom bar doesn't mean you have to take up 50px on the left side.
3. Scalable UI:s are a thing, and there is no reason my game should be held hostage by someone's toaster, and I'm saying this as someone that's got what pretty much amounts to a toaster by most standards today.

Well then....

1. Look at the title of the thread.  It is a thread about solid UI.  So your point is pretty much moot.  Even if this wasn't a thread specifically about making suggestions for the solid UI the game still features it as an option so you still have to design the UI around the concept that it will be a solid UI cause you can't just slap a modular UI on a solid one and expect it to look decent with no design considerations.  Cause it wont.
2. This is true but your point is still moot.  Like I said the game has an optional solid UI so you have to design around it in the first place.  If the party window is 120 pixels in height then everything in the UI may as well be 120 pixels tall because if it isn't you could have a sloppy or inconsistent look with the solid UI in place.  Or worse for people like Sensuki, an art frame designed to compensate that means certain UI elements only look good in their default spots.  Which is also why he wanted each "section" to have a unique solid design.  Which they probably won't do because Obsidian isn't making a movable UI to begin with.
3. I never said there wasn't, in fact I think that is part of my point.  You guys don't understand design.  Design is about functionality and appearance.  When it comes to "user interfaces" functionality has to be the top concern.  If it isn't you are doing it wrong.  It sucks I know but there are loons like again Sensuki who want to play this on a 1995 CRT for some god awful reason.  The UI has to be "big" enough that it still looks good and is functional on those resolutions too.  If you design it to be as small as possible for 1080 or higher then it won't look good on lower resolutions.

[Clean&Clear]

If you ask me, an L-shape with portraits and effects and so on on a left-side bar would be the best, a radial menu on the lower right (because face it, you won't need it in combat and when you do, it's not a problem eyeing down there) and most of the left-to-middle centre bottom bar taken up by combat/dialogue-log.

 

 

This would be great.

[Ashen Rohk]

Like the IE games.

 

 

Sorry to be that guy, but this is all I'm getting from this thread.

[Sarex]

Sorry to be that guy, but this is all I'm getting from this thread.

 

Then don't be that guy.

[Sensuki]

If you're not going to use the solid UI, then why would you care?

 

The only suggestion I made that has anything to do with "like the IE games" is the gems bit. Everything else has nothing to do with anything that was in the IE games, and is related to functionality support only.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Sensuki

[Karkarov]

If you're not going to use the solid UI, then why would you care?

 

The only suggestion I made that has anything to do with "like the IE games" is the gems bit. Everything else has nothing to do with anything that was in the IE games, and is related to functionality support only.

Honestly if it is at all possible I think they should code it so the "hide" options are basically gone when the solid UI is in use aside from maybe the main menu buttons.  Even then that would just be so the grogs can expand the combat log further.