Elzarath Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 I don't think the cities necessarily need more people, maybe the existing ones just need to be a bit more dynamic. We've compared the number of people in the cities of PoE vs. BG, etc. but BG, and particularly BGII, had much bigger cities in terms of phsyical size. The actual maps were bigger, so it made sense to have more people filling them. In PoE the First Fires district was made up of about 4 buildings. They were large buildings but there wasn't many of them. Whether that's a reflection on 'filler content' or something else I don't know but I think it'd help if we kept it in perspective in number of people vs. map size for each individual game (and to expand on that each games goals, lore, even engine capabilities). For example it may not be fun to fill a city if it means path finding suffers and then it detracts from user experience.
Lephys Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 This is probably the number one reason why I am waiting for this game to go on sale before I buy it. The game looks so boring, safe, and empty. I'm sure the writing is great but I'm not interested in running around some pre rendered backgrounds reading paragraphs from a book. Judging from the incomplete game, yes, the complete game definitely looks lacking. 4 Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u
Gromnir Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 This is probably the number one reason why I am waiting for this game to go on sale before I buy it. The game looks so boring, safe, and empty. I'm sure the writing is great but I'm not interested in running around some pre rendered backgrounds reading paragraphs from a book. Judging from the incomplete game, yes, the complete game definitely looks lacking. one wonders if folks who make such comments bothered to read the kickstarter page. perhaps what poe forums really needs is something akin to the surgeon general's warning on cigarette sales... some kinda ubiquitous disclaimer telling folks that the original ie games (which had folks traversing "pre rendered backgrounds reading paragraphs" o' text) were the inspiration for poe gameplay. conversely, for folks at the obtuse extreme other end o' the spectrum, one should point out that while the ie games, games that offered considerable variation in spite o' sharing the same core engine, were the primary inspiration for poe developers, those games do not constitute religious dogma that needs must be adhered to lest the obsidians be found guilty o' heresy and blasphemy. the willful ignorant and the ie reactionaries is having a tendency to obfuscate useful poe dialogues. HA! Good Fun! 3 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
StrangeCat Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Two months of Polishing will add quite a bit to the game as a final product. I don't think anyone has anything to worry about. They will try there best to reach the standards they have always had since starting the development cycle. What I did judege from the live stream which I wachted again, is that, the game will have great pacing and great writing. I think a lot of people will forgive more then few misteps as they lose themselves in there story and world. 1
Lord Wafflebum Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 What I'm expecting is that 80% of the stuff folks are complaining about that will "ruin the game" for them ceases to be a problem once they start playing it. It looks like they've put a lot of love into this game and out of any game developer is existence, including Bioware, OE has the most right talent to bring back an IE-style game. A lot of my faith in Sawyer comes from F:NV. I was underwhelmed with FO3, but F:NV brought back a lot of what made Fallout what it is. The Codex would say I'm part of the "Sawyer is my God" crowd, but I think he's earned that faith. 2
archangel979 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 F:NV lol. Not. InXile and Larian so far leave more of a sense of being capable of what you are talking about. But after PoE releases we will revise that. Smaller town maps than both bg1 and bg2 dont bode well
Lord Wafflebum Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 F:NV lol. Not. InXile and Larian so far leave more of a sense of being capable of what you are talking about. But after PoE releases we will revise that. Smaller town maps than both bg1 and bg2 dont bode well When PoE comes out, and it's awesome, I'm going to send you so many "I told you so" messages and pictures of majestic horses. 6
Lord Wafflebum Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Also, completely unrelated, I just noticed my kickstarter badge disappeared and that makes me sad
archangel979 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 F:NV lol. Not. InXile and Larian so far leave more of a sense of being capable of what you are talking about. But after PoE releases we will revise that. Smaller town maps than both bg1 and bg2 dont bode well When PoE comes out, and it's awesome, I'm going to send you so many "I told you so" messages and pictures of majestic horses. You can, but only if I say it is awesome I don't care what Obsidian lovers think, I am here because of their IE games pitch. If they used NWN2 or FNV in their pitch I would not be here. This is also a reason why I hold them to a higher standard because IE games still blow anything Obsidian done (since they are Obsidian) out of the water. 2
Lephys Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Two months of Polishing will add quite a bit to the game as a final product. I don't think anyone has anything to worry about. They will try there best to reach the standards they have always had since starting the development cycle. That, and I don't think some people realize that the backer beta does not constitute the entirety of content/"stuff" that Obsidian has completed. There's plenty we're not seeing because it's not in the backer beta. I get the feeling some are thinking "How are they going to go from the backer beta to a finished game in TWO MONTHS?!" Sure, some of the systems might not be perfect before release, but I'm not really worried about content until I have reason to be. And system tweaking is a lot easier than content production. "Oops, attack speed for this list of abilities needs to be slower. These abilities' damage needs to change. This one needs an extra effect. There need to be fewer spiders here..." etc. It's not really earth-shattering workloads. Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u
archangel979 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Haha, when you get to BG and have Dynaheir in party she says "Oh, such bustle! Cities in Rashemen are empty when compared" She can say than again for other places as well :D Edited January 20, 2015 by archangel979
Lord Wafflebum Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 I am a lover that's true, but a mediocre one at best. I'd say OE has earned some street cred back as of late, and I don't think they can be held entirely responsible for the buggy release of FNV. That's what happens when you have to meet a deadline or get sued. It's just s shame that Sensuki doesn't have a copy of the current build of the full version. He'd have every bug identified in it in about 4 weeks. 1
BAdler Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Hey, guys. We are doing some things to try and address people's feedback about the NPCs in the city. For example, adding patrollers. We will also make sure the ambient walla is added so the area feels more crowded. 20
Rumsteak Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Yay! This will at least alleviate the problem (or maybe solve it depending on the solution). Edit: Hopefully there will be more to the addition than just patrollers, otherwise it will feel like an enemy army occupation patrolling during curfew. Maybe add random plebs or something. Edited January 21, 2015 by Rumsteak 1
AndreaColombo Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Agreed. Patrollers is definitely a good idea but civilians should outnumber them by a good margin for the city to feel natural and alive. So more civilians should be added as well. Great to hear they're taking our concerns at heart, though "Time is not your enemy. Forever is." — Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment "It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers." — Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus
Luckmann Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 When he said "patrollers", I do not think he actually meant soldiers on patrol; I believe he was simply referring to NPC:s with patrol patterns, walking around the city "randomly". 2
Lord Wafflebum Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 I hope there are horses walking around randomly, too. 4
Rumsteak Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) I hope there are horses walking around randomly, too. Yeah, you wouldn't want those horses to be too stable Edited January 21, 2015 by Rumsteak 8
Lord Wafflebum Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 I hope there are horses walking around randomly, too. Yeah, you wouldn't want those horses to be too stable Lephys? Is that you? 6
Luckmann Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 I hope there are horses walking around randomly, too. All I'm asking for is a single otter.
cloudpm Posted January 21, 2015 Author Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) What I'm expecting is that 80% of the stuff folks are complaining about that will "ruin the game" for them ceases to be a problem once they start playing it. It looks like they've put a lot of love into this game and out of any game developer is existence, including Bioware, OE has the most right talent to bring back an IE-style game. A lot of my faith in Sawyer comes from F:NV. I was underwhelmed with FO3, but F:NV brought back a lot of what made Fallout what it is. The Codex would say I'm part of the "Sawyer is my God" crowd, but I think he's earned that faith. ... I think somethimes you talk a little bit too much. If you like it the way it is, that's really fine. I just hope that you won't then start to mod it by adding "ultimate Gui Weidu fixpack v4.12" from there, neither some "Unfinish business NPC" or whatever. Of course we can give our worries (interprated by "complains") goddess. The project was started thanks to all of our money, it was only drawings on A4 papers 2-3 years ago that Obsidian had already got millions of $... It was a fund raise project based on what the "community wanted" on kickstarter remember ? And if $ X amount was reached, we could have more stuff. So yeah, we can express our worries until the end. If you're confident, no problem... and you're perfectly right, we are putting a lot of love in PoE. Plus, we've never put into consideration the game developers' talents. What talents are needed in order to populate some towns ? We are all happy that the game will come out... but sorry for being worried after 10-15 years of waiting for a decent real RPG game. My memories are from 1999... Planescape Torment... 640x480 resolution screen. Since, I have only played meaningless RPGs... This project is what I've been waiting since it was announced. We are 2 months from the release, hell yeah I'm thrilled but at the same time, afraid to be disappointed. Edited January 21, 2015 by cloudpm
StrangeCat Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Hey, guys. We are doing some things to try and address people's feedback about the NPCs in the city. For example, adding patrollers. We will also make sure the ambient walla is added so the area feels more crowded. that's not enough you city is to clean make it live. Dirty it up add beggers, theives, birds, Minstral at the fountain. I am sure you guys go it.
Luckmann Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Hey, guys. We are doing some things to try and address people's feedback about the NPCs in the city. For example, adding patrollers. We will also make sure the ambient walla is added so the area feels more crowded.That's not enough, your city is too clean; make it live! Dirty it up, add beggars, thieves, birds, an otter in the fountain. I am sure you guys got it. I completely agree with this. Edited January 21, 2015 by Luckmann
BlueLion Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Yes, this is a good idea. More people is not necessarily the solution, it is people DOING STUFF that is the key. Currently it seems they are standing alone, static, or talking in groups. How about the kids running around, the beggar on the corner, the dogs chasing birds, the housewife gathering water from the well etc...
cloudpm Posted January 21, 2015 Author Posted January 21, 2015 Hey, guys. We are doing some things to try and address people's feedback about the NPCs in the city. For example, adding patrollers. We will also make sure the ambient walla is added so the area feels more crowded. Thanks for the feedback... especially from a dev The ideas proposed by Conjurer are nice ;D
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