RPGCodex 2014 Games of the Year

[HoonDing]

Game by developer who invited Codexers to check out their game, regularly calls out to them on Twitter and even openly put a thank word in game credits gets voted #1.

 

Mainstream Doritopope or indie Kickstarter circles, in the end it's all the same.

[Sensuki]

I didn't even vote, but what would you have liked to have seen as #1 ?

[Orogun01]

Forgot I have Blackguards.

Unless I can put a stick on a baby and make a mace out of it on the sequel I don't buy the whole these are bad people bit. Demonicon made a better job of presenting and allowing for evil options than Blackguards and was a good game to play with maces.

[Agiel]

It's weird. If you're impressing that lot than you must be doing at least *something* right. That said, were I a game developer who managed to impress RPGCodex, I don't know if I would wear their seal of approval so proudly on my sleeve.

[LadyCrimson]

Neo Scavenger is also on GoG, in case that interests anyone. I've looked at it a few times and it looks interesting, might try it one day.

[Zoraptor]

Codex is just trying to expunge the 'shame' of voting DAO as RPGOTY 2009 by being mean to DAI. Secretly they love it, its thread is the longest/ most continuous RPG thread as compared to the others on the list and there's lots of people playing and discuss!ng the game. Though no doubt they're really just playing it 7 times just to make sure it really is bad.

 

Game by developer who invited Codexers to check out their game, regularly calls out to them on Twitter and even openly put a thank word in game credits gets voted #1.

 

Mainstream Doritopope or indie Kickstarter circles, in the end it's all the same.

 

Yep, they gave Gragt a sandwich* or something for lunch when he was doing his preview.

 

*something something corrupt bâtards

[Tigranes]

 

 

Sure, I hear you 

 

But you don't think traditional "Bioware Bias" is also responsible for the low score. I'll hazard a guess and say RPGCodex has a good number of members who dislike Bioware?

 

 

You see, I think games that are fun are most important, on the whole, to gamers. So if you become biased against Bioware, odds are that's because you really didn't enjoy their games. Sure, after that you can get a lot of confirmation bias and all sorts of messy things, but that's true with everything. 

 

It's simply much more reasonable to say that people who rate DA:I low or criticise Bioware are grounded in their disappointment with Bioware games they did not enjoy. Instead of:

 

Hardly, the game is graphically stunning.  The waves on the Storm Coast are one of the most amazing visuals I've ever seen in a game.  

 

It's not rational to rate it that low.  It is clearly guided by some misplaced emotional butthurt about Bioware.  And really, that's fine, it's what I expect from RPGCodex, just like I expect the major publications to be way too flattering about it.  In reality it's a decent RPG that lacks the imagination of games like Divinity, Shadowrun, and even NEO Scavenger.  

 

 

I'm sorry, but I find these kinds of suggestions more thoughtless than supposed 'bio-haters'.

(1) People have different opinions about games. I meant that I think the game as a whole looks like a bad game, not graphics, but anyway, it's ludicrous to argue "this is clearly a good game, so people saying otherwise are just not rational".

(2) Clearly, there is a lot of "emotional butthurt" about Bioware. The point is, it's most reasonable to expect that this butthurt came about because people put money and time into Bioware games and were disappointed by them. Otherwise, what's the reason? They kill your dog? What's really 'irrational' is the insistence on attributing crazy irrational reasons to other people's behaviour, when there are more reasonable alternatives. 

(3) Now, that's not to say there's no bias. Places like the Codex are obviously predisposed against games like DA:I (though funnily enough a lot of them probably played it for hours, as Zoraptor says). But that bias is, again, more likely to do with what kind of games people on the Codex enjoy. It would be valid to say, 'Codex hate of Bioware is silly, I think Bioware games are great'. It's kind of weird to say, 'Codex hate of Bioware is silly, they are crazy people', because then I could just call you a Biodrone. And then, you know, we insult each others' mommas.

 

For example, I was very disappointed by NWN1, further disappointed by KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age 2 - and after numerous attempts to see whether I could enjoy what they come up with, deciding that no, I find their games terrible in many ways. And then checking some gameplay videos of DA:I and deciding that this one also looks terrible. I would love Bioware to make some games that I can enjoy. Actually, I would love anybody to do that, who cares if it's Bioware or John Romero's monkey? 

 

What I find ridiculous is sometimes you have an opinion about a game and people say OK, whatever, it's your opinion - but sometimes they say, oh, that's not even an opinion, you aren't even capable of judging this game, it's clearly not a crap game and you just have this weird hatred of Bioware. It just sounds very contrived.

[rjshae]

What I find ridiculous is sometimes you have an opinion about a game and people say OK, whatever, it's your opinion - but sometimes they say, oh, that's not even an opinion, you aren't even capable of judging this game, it's clearly not a crap game and you just have this weird hatred of Bioware. It just sounds very contrived.

 

When somebody spews venom regarding a company's works, then goes on to give the most ridiculously trivial excuses as to why they don't like a particular game: I'd say they are carrying a grudge. Unfortunately I see this all too often, so it doesn't seem contrived to me.

[Hurlshort]

Just because Bioware makes games you don't enjoy, doesn't mean they make terrible games.  I don't have any interest in playing Call of Duty games, I tried a couple of them years ago and didn't find them enjoyable.  I don't blame the company for that, and I don't feel the need to judge the games when they come out as terrible because they don't appeal to me.  I am certainly not going to say they look terrible, because by all obvious accounts they are high quality products that looks great, run well, and meet the interests of a large audience.  They clearly aren't crap games, just like DA:I is clearly not a crap game.  So yeah, I'm going to belittle your opinion when it is not really based on evidence.  

 

 

The funny thing is I have plenty of complaints about DA:I, and I found DA2 barely tolerable.  

[Malcador]

Seems a lot of butthurt about people being butthurt over Bioware, as usual. Corporate loyalty is something, I suppose.

 

Is the Codex saying DA:I sucks objectively or that it sucks in their opinion. Weird to say it is invalid if the latter, and you seem to take it as the former.

[Majek]

Don't they always assume that? And the always the same posters as well.

[Zoraptor]

Is the Codex saying DA:I sucks objectively or that it sucks in their opinion. Weird to say it is invalid if the latter, and you seem to take it as the former.

 

It simply shouldn't be taken seriously. Codex hates Bioware, they still have flashbacks and cold sweats about voting DAO as their game of the year. If DAI were a masterpiece reflecting the best bits of Codex approved RPG classics like PST, Fallout, Arcanum, VtMB, Gone Home, JA2 and BG2 it still wouldn't get voted highly, if it were objectively crap it wouldn't get voted highly.

 

The only real solution to anyone disturbed by DAI's low rating is the obvious one, don't care about what others think if you enjoyed the game, and don't take a low rating as an anti-recommendation if you're thinking of buying but check out sources you trust.

 

(I like the Codex and by and large like, agree with and trust their list. On DAI though, I wouldn't trust their rating at all. Sure, some will rate honestly and either love or hate it honestly, but too many won't)

Edited January 13, 2015 by Zoraptor

[Malcador]

Not like it matters all that much. It is just the Codex, heh.

 

Ah well Zora beat me to it.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Malcador

[Nonek]

In my opinion Bioware make mediocre games, based on an established formula and archetypes. Some things such as their blurry pastel and over emphasised art design, their second hand squeeing Joss Whedon humour, their idiotic unmotivated and far too dependent characters, the far too blatant idolisation of the protagonist at the expense of the antagonists and plot, the simplistic nature of their narrative, the lack of verisimilitude in their settings and dead, lifeless gameworlds don't particularly appeal to me personally.

 

However horses for courses and whatnot, they probably have as many strengths according to others.

 

Edit: I'm not aware that they have broken from these designs in DA3 as I have not played it, and will not while Origins exclusive, from various trusted opinions i've heard that they have simply added a lot of quests in their usual empty (but larger) settings, a faux strategic aspect, and have degraded combat quite drastically.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Nonek

[Malekith]

Zoraptor, on 14 Jan 2015 - 01:39 AM, said:

 

Malcador, on 14 Jan 2015 - 01:08 AM, said:

Is the Codex saying DA:I sucks objectively or that it sucks in their opinion. Weird to say it is invalid if the latter, and you seem to take it as the former.

 

It simply shouldn't be taken seriously. Codex hates Bioware, they still have flashbacks and cold sweats about voting DAO as their game of the year. If DAI were a masterpiece reflecting the best bits of Codex approved RPG classics like PST, Fallout, Arcanum, VtMB, Gone Home, JA2 and BG2 it still wouldn't get voted highly, if it were objectively crap it wouldn't get voted highly.

 

Your own words disprove your opinion though. If Codex hates Bioware so much (and it has plenty of reason to, their games were from mediocre to crap for the last decade) why would they vote DAO GOTY 2009? It didn't even touch  PST, Fallout, Arcanum, VtMB, Gone Home, JA2 and BG2, yet Codex kinda liked it. Even the ones that didn't they admited it was better than anything Bioware has done since ToB.

And Codex's disaproval of Bioware begins with NWN. So if they gave DAO GOTY prize, it means they are more objective than you give them credit for.

[Leferd]

 

Zoraptor, on 14 Jan 2015 - 01:39 AM, said:

 

Malcador, on 14 Jan 2015 - 01:08 AM, said:

Is the Codex saying DA:I sucks objectively or that it sucks in their opinion. Weird to say it is invalid if the latter, and you seem to take it as the former.

 

It simply shouldn't be taken seriously. Codex hates Bioware, they still have flashbacks and cold sweats about voting DAO as their game of the year. If DAI were a masterpiece reflecting the best bits of Codex approved RPG classics like PST, Fallout, Arcanum, VtMB, Gone Home, JA2 and BG2 it still wouldn't get voted highly, if it were objectively crap it wouldn't get voted highly.

 

Your own words disprove your opinion though. If Codex hates Bioware so much (and it has plenty of reason to, their games were from mediocre to crap for the last decade) why would they vote DAO GOTY 2009? It didn't even touch  PST, Fallout, Arcanum, VtMB, Gone Home, JA2 and BG2, yet Codex kinda liked it. Even the ones that didn't they admited it was better than anything Bioware has done since ToB.

And Codex's disaproval of Bioware begins with NWN. So if they gave DAO GOTY prize, it means they are more objective than you give them credit for.

 

 

To be fair, the Codex "awarded" DAO essentially by default.

 

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=198

 

To quote: 

 

The process of selecting the title for RPG of the year goes something like this:

 

Were any RPGs actually released this year?

Were any of them released in English?

Give the English one the award.

 

[rjshae]

Seems a lot of butthurt about people being butthurt over Bioware, as usual. Corporate loyalty is something, I suppose.

 

Is the Codex saying DA:I sucks objectively or that it sucks in their opinion. Weird to say it is invalid if the latter, and you seem to take it as the former.

 

This twisted trollogic brought to you by the school of people butthurt over people being butthurt about people suffering from butthurt.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Thanks a lot Grognards, now I'm enjoying the hell out of NEO Scavenger.

[LadyCrimson]

I'm always a little surprised by the intense division re: Bioware/DA games et al. Maybe I shouldn't be. I mean I know what it's like to want to have faith and have the faith trampled on, but eventually it's time to move on and get over it. I haven't been interested in a Bioware game in quite some time and don't have much vested there, but I still get a little sad when I think about Peter Molyneux...it took me forever to realize he's never going to go back to being what I personally used to "see" in him.

 

Maybe some of it's because these things go back to the time when we had "gaming gods." You don't see that much any more. Not that there aren't still some awesome/great companies/individuals in the industry, mind. I just mean...well, the business has changed and it's a more jaded/cynical era than before, perhaps.

 

[Bill Gates' Son]

I love bioware games, but I didn't exactly find DA:I all that great either.  If you like single player MMOs, then hey, more power to you.  I found most of the game boring.

 

I'm also glad that Dragonfall is getting more recognition; it's probably the most overlooked game of the 2014.

[Orogun01]

I love bioware games, but I didn't exactly find DA:I all that great either.  If you like single player MMOs, then hey, more power to you.  I found most of the game boring.

 

I'm also glad that Dragonfall is getting more recognition; it's probably the most overlooked game of the 2014.

A lot of people whined about ShadowRun Returns not being the second coming of Christ, it kind of soured Dragonfall a bit.

[HoonDing]

 

Forgot I have Blackguards.

Unless I can put a stick on a baby and make a mace out of it on the sequel I don't buy the whole these are bad people bit. Demonicon made a better job of presenting and allowing for evil options than Blackguards and was a good game to play with maces.

 

If it didn't have incestuous romance If it didn't take place in Dark Eye setting I'd rate it lower than Bound by Flame. The latter was a better game on its own.

[Malcador]

I'm always a little surprised by the intense division re: Bioware/DA games et al. Maybe I shouldn't be. I mean I know what it's like to want to have faith and have the faith trampled on, but eventually it's time to move on and get over it. I haven't been interested in a Bioware game in quite some time and don't have much vested there, but I still get a little sad when I think about Peter Molyneux...it took me forever to realize he's never going to go back to being what I personally used to "see" in him.

 

Maybe some of it's because these things go back to the time when we had "gaming gods." You don't see that much any more. Not that there aren't still some awesome/great companies/individuals in the industry, mind. I just mean...well, the business has changed and it's a more jaded/cynical era than before, perhaps.

 

I wish I kept that magazine. I still laugh at the memory of the big photo of the group, and Carmack is sitting just a little bit apart from everyone else on the couch

 

I can't actually think of any game designers on their level these days, but that's probably just due to lessened enthusiasm more than designers today being monkeys.

[LadyCrimson]

The cover pic isn't mine, but I do still have the magazine, along with some others.

[Tigranes]

 

Just because Bioware makes games you don't enjoy, doesn't mean they make terrible games.  I don't have any interest in playing Call of Duty games, I tried a couple of them years ago and didn't find them enjoyable.  I don't blame the company for that, and I don't feel the need to judge the games when they come out as terrible because they don't appeal to me.  I am certainly not going to say they look terrible, because by all obvious accounts they are high quality products that looks great, run well, and meet the interests of a large audience.  They clearly aren't crap games, just like DA:I is clearly not a crap game.  So yeah, I'm going to belittle your opinion when it is not really based on evidence.   

 

 

The funny thing is I have plenty of complaints about DA:I, and I found DA2 barely tolerable.  

 

I look at a game like DA2, and I think it is a terrible game with very few redeeming qualities. I look at a game like Mass Effect 1, and I see a game that I could never enjoy but looks generally decent, with some things construable as strengths. Same with KOTOR. And if we want to talk about the Codex, or any other hypothetical group of 'Bio haters', I think you'd find that many of them individually have different opinions. Some of them even seem to write off BG series, while others clearly like Bio games enough to buy and play them. 

 

Now if you want to talk details about why I or anyone else might consider any of these games, we can! We can talk about the single player MMO grind combat of DA:I, the quest writing behind DA2, the screensaver combat of KOTOR, the Four MacGuffins of NWN1... obviously, I didn't feel the need to write a book about it in this thread. Doesn't mean you can say "hey, you clearly are a Biohater who has no evidence for his opinion."

 

(There is another assumption running through your response, which is that games which millions of people buy and play could not possibly be terrible. Well, I can see why people would go with that. I don't subscribe to it. We're all capable of enjoying terrible things, whether in the realm of popular culture or in more serious realms of violence, racism, whatever.)

 

Basically my point is simple. Why do some people say harsh things about a game, or a line of games, or a company that makes those games? The most likely answer: they really don't like those games. They really did not enjoy those games, and/or they think the games are objectively terrible. If we want to dispute those judgments, sure, that's why we come to these forums. If we want to sit there and say "oh those people don't count, they just hate Bioware because of what happened 10 years ago" or "oh those people just hate Bio games for no reason", well... I'm sure that's true for some people, but I find that a rather irrational and unreasonable stance.