Journalism and sexism in the games industry

[Namutree]

 

 

"We GamerGaters do not avoid women...but we do deny them our essence..."

 

WTF is this quote about?

[Namutree]

 

What those quotes were telling of is that GamerGate is little more than another crackpot conspiracy theory. Such language does little to disabuse me that this is gaming's equivalent of the Red Scare.

 

During the red scare people were haphazardly being accused of being communists. Are you suggesting that GG is randomly accusing people of being feminists?

 

Ironically, there is a group that is randomly making untrue claims about people's political affiliation: Guess who it is!

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

"We GamerGaters do not avoid women...but we do deny them our essence..."

 

WTF is this quote about?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Hey guys, the porn charity raised over $10,000!

 

Won't link for obvious reasons, but well done.

[Keyrock]

Hey guys, the porn charity raised over $10,000!

 

Won't link for obvious reasons, but well done.

Boobs for the win!

[Volourn]

"We GamerGaters do not avoid women...but we do deny them our essence..."

\

Your logic is stupid. How is GG avoding women or enying them when there are more women in GG than anti GG.

 

To try to pretend that GG is anti women is asanine.

[Orogun01]

"We GamerGaters do not avoid women...but we do deny them our essence..."

\

Your logic is stupid. How is GG avoding women or enying them when there are more women in GG than anti GG.

 

To try to pretend that GG is anti women is asanine.

I think they are trying to quote Dr. Strangelove.

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

Some of the comments on that article are rather...telling:

 

 

Telling of what?

 

That people are angry at feminist for infiltrating and subverting online media, they shouldn't be allowed to be angry and criticize.

 

"Inflitrating?"

 

"Subverting?"

 

What those quotes were telling of is that GamerGate is little more than another crackpot conspiracy theory. Such language does little to disabuse me that this is gaming's equivalent of the Red Scare.

 

"We GamerGaters do not avoid women...but we do deny them our essence..."

 

 

Ungood language makes association to unpersons.

[Blarghagh]

 

 

 

Some of the comments on that article are rather...telling:

 

 

Telling of what?

 

That people are angry at feminist for infiltrating and subverting online media, they shouldn't be allowed to be angry and criticize.

 

"Inflitrating?"

 

"Subverting?"

 

What those quotes were telling of is that GamerGate is little more than another crackpot conspiracy theory. Such language does little to disabuse me that this is gaming's equivalent of the Red Scare.

 

"We GamerGaters do not avoid women...but we do deny them our essence..."

 

 

Well, I don't know about those people but I'm sure if I judged huge swathes of people based on internet comment sections of tabloid websites it would make everything seem like a conspiracy theory.

[Amentep]

 

 

 

 

Some of the comments on that article are rather...telling:

 

 

Telling of what?

 

That people are angry at feminist for infiltrating and subverting online media, they shouldn't be allowed to be angry and criticize.

 

"Inflitrating?"

 

"Subverting?"

 

What those quotes were telling of is that GamerGate is little more than another crackpot conspiracy theory. Such language does little to disabuse me that this is gaming's equivalent of the Red Scare.

 

"We GamerGaters do not avoid women...but we do deny them our essence..."

 

 

Well, I don't know about those people but I'm sure if I judged huge swathes of people based on internet comment sections of tabloid websites it would make everything seem like a conspiracy theory.

 

 

There was an article on the local newspaper website about something I was interested in seeing the reaction of the community and the comments quickly descended into political conspiracy theories and blatant racism. Which sounds pretty much like what happened on this "Ralph Report" (except switch racism for sexism).

 

I suspect that people underestimate the number of people with an axe to grind and the number of people who just like **** stirring.

[Meshugger]

Talk about **** stirring, 8chan is down again.

 

First Reddit, then Patreon cutting funds exclusively, and now this. Twitter is next.

[BruceVC]

 

Seems a little harsh.

 

 

Is it?

 

This guy is singlehandedly (well not quite, Volourn goes hand in hand here) responsible for the thread devolving into irrelevant tangent discussions about sex work, and I think you would find that if you polled every person in this thread, more people have had their questions dodged by Bruce than those who have not. And to top it all off, there's the audacity to make the claim he did (the one I was responding to is just ONE example of the same stuff) while not actually ever owning up to or responding to every question he's been faced with. It's hypocrisy, and my gut is screaming "passive aggressive alert, don't bother with this guy cause he knows better."

 

My advice, stop being so defensive. Not everything is some surreptitious attack on GG or on your perspective. Sometimes people just don't understand what you mean when you expect a response, so make it easy for them by explaining

 

 

GG has nothing to do with this. I didn't even read your post, I saw the last line. I don't care what the post even says, because quite frankly I'm done discussing things with you period. There's a difference between "sometimes" and "all of the times." You are an "all of the times." I have all the patience in the world for someone who sincerely doesn't understand something or didn't see something. I do NOT have the same patience for someone who, before answering a question, has to walk me through every agonizing step where I first have to throw a giant fit to get their attention, then I have to repeat the question, then I have to CLARIFY the question, and then I finally get a "that makes sense" non-answer that, quite frankly, in no way proves or suggest you even READ my post.

   And hell, that seems to be the case, no? Because you're claiming to have never seen a big post that was addressed at you. And you claim that every time.

 

 

The impression is obvious: you do not read or listen to things that don't fit your own mantra, you do not want to have to confront those, and yet you care a whole ****ing lot about your image. So every time someone calls you out on something, you reply, but you reply in the same passive aggressive non-answers that ultimately do nothing. I could write up a giant wall of text right now and the only response would be "excellent points. I can definitely see where you're coming from, but I disagree " without bothering to explain how or why.

 

 

It's warped, it's messed up, and I - quite frankly - try my best to avoid dishonest people like the plague. I've no idea if you're being dishonest with us or dishonest with yourself, but it all spells trouble to me regardless.

 

 

But don't worry, I'm not going to tell you to screw off like I once did. I'm going to leave and stop discussing this stuff here, because quite frankly, I'm tired of making a point I consider strong, and then I have to spend a good amount of effort just to tell everyone "hey the stuff Bruce is talking about is pretty irrelevant and he's actively dodging points by bringing up that discussion," only for it to re-occur every ****ing 3 pages.

 

Have fun convincing people prostitution is awful and you care a lot about poor women stuck in sex work even though you also admit to purchasing their services and thereby perpetuate the occupation by providing it with demand. I'll be off trying to find a productive discussion. (bitter irony that video games could provide a SAFE alternative that provides people with a way to get their rocks off while not encouraging an ACTUAL trade that puts women in a bind, which could help break down the very occupation you claim is so toxic while also reducing STD spread. But nah, logic is so 20th century)

 

 

 

Seems a little harsh.

 

 

Is it?

 

This guy is singlehandedly (well not quite, Volourn goes hand in hand here) responsible for the thread devolving into irrelevant tangent discussions about sex work, and I think you would find that if you polled every person in this thread, more people have had their questions dodged by Bruce than those who have not. And to top it all off, there's the audacity to make the claim he did (the one I was responding to is just ONE example of the same stuff) while not actually ever owning up to or responding to every question he's been faced with. It's hypocrisy, and my gut is screaming "passive aggressive alert, don't bother with this guy cause he knows better."

 

My advice, stop being so defensive. Not everything is some surreptitious attack on GG or on your perspective. Sometimes people just don't understand what you mean when you expect a response, so make it easy for them by explaining

 

 

GG has nothing to do with this. I didn't even read your post, I saw the last line. I don't care what the post even says, because quite frankly I'm done discussing things with you period. There's a difference between "sometimes" and "all of the times." You are an "all of the times." I have all the patience in the world for someone who sincerely doesn't understand something or didn't see something. I do NOT have the same patience for someone who, before answering a question, has to walk me through every agonizing step where I first have to throw a giant fit to get their attention, then I have to repeat the question, then I have to CLARIFY the question, and then I finally get a "that makes sense" non-answer that, quite frankly, in no way proves or suggest you even READ my post.

   And hell, that seems to be the case, no? Because you're claiming to have never seen a big post that was addressed at you. And you claim that every time.

 

 

The impression is obvious: you do not read or listen to things that don't fit your own mantra, you do not want to have to confront those, and yet you care a whole ****ing lot about your image. So every time someone calls you out on something, you reply, but you reply in the same passive aggressive non-answers that ultimately do nothing. I could write up a giant wall of text right now and the only response would be "excellent points. I can definitely see where you're coming from, but I disagree " without bothering to explain how or why.

 

 

It's warped, it's messed up, and I - quite frankly - try my best to avoid dishonest people like the plague. I've no idea if you're being dishonest with us or dishonest with yourself, but it all spells trouble to me regardless.

 

 

But don't worry, I'm not going to tell you to screw off like I once did. I'm going to leave and stop discussing this stuff here, because quite frankly, I'm tired of making a point I consider strong, and then I have to spend a good amount of effort just to tell everyone "hey the stuff Bruce is talking about is pretty irrelevant and he's actively dodging points by bringing up that discussion," only for it to re-occur every ****ing 3 pages.

 

Have fun convincing people prostitution is awful and you care a lot about poor women stuck in sex work even though you also admit to purchasing their services and thereby perpetuate the occupation by providing it with demand. I'll be off trying to find a productive discussion. (bitter irony that video games could provide a SAFE alternative that provides people with a way to get their rocks off while not encouraging an ACTUAL trade that puts women in a bind, which could help break down the very occupation you claim is so toxic while also reducing STD spread. But nah, logic is so 20th century)

 

 

Wow that wasn't quite the response I expected, are you in a bad mood?

 

Do you want to talk about it, I'm a good listener    

[Blarghagh]

[Chilloutman]

Wow that wasn't quite the response I expected, are you in a bad mood?

 

Do you want to talk about it, I'm a good listener    

 

Thats proper passive agression and derailing of topic and then you are suprised when someone just dont have enough energy to constanty feed you with ammo

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

https://archive.today/XajAP

 

Slutshaming of the Boob Frequency cam girl. Trigger Warning: Xtreme Butthurt

[BruceVC]

 

Wow that wasn't quite the response I expected, are you in a bad mood?

 

Do you want to talk about it, I'm a good listener    

 

Thats proper passive agression and derailing of topic and then you are suprised when someone just dont have enough energy to constanty feed you with ammo

 

 

Really, I always thought  passive aggression was where you were actually annoyed with someone or something but  you generate that  hostility in an indirect way 

 

 

I could lie to you and say I was annoyed by Longknife post but the truth is I'm not, not at all 

 

He was completlely wrong around his opinion of me. I don't want to be rude to him and systematically dispute his points because I  would have to be a little harsh and I don't feel like doing that. But lets just focus on his accusation of me " derailing the thread " ( and now you are also believing in it) 

 

" You are derailing this thread " waaaaaaaaaaaa.......seriously its the Internet, every single thread I engage in there is always an element of people going off topic. So what ?  The fact that people  want to discuss it should tell you its relevant to some. All these topics are on level connected to GG and SJ causes whether Longknife wants to believe it all not. Now is he suggesting that only topics he wants to raise people must discuss.  Sorry, its not going to happen. What a silly thing to say to someone ...." you are derailing this thread " 

 

I can't change his mind. So 

[Blarghagh]

Completely wrong?

[BruceVC]

Completely wrong?

Okay not wrong about everything   

[Nonek]

Well the chap has got a point about hypocrisy, when one decrys prostitution and then uses prostitutes, thus propogating the sex trade, that gentleman is a hypocrite and contributes to the problems sex workers face. You've still not explained why exactly you want virtual sex workers removed from GTAV, and yet can cheerfully overlook any other virtual victims of crime, such as those murdered, beaten, robbed, raped etcetera. In other words you want special attention paid to whitewashing sex workers from the game, why exactly, is this related to your use of real life sex workers?

 

The dodging answers thing has become a little too overused as well, been done just a few too many times now. I don't hold with Longknife's view that you intentionally need everything explaining purposefully, I think its just a limitation of your mental range (which I may be wrong about,) and that must obviously be forgiven. Your rote answers that everybody on the board can mimic before you've written them, well to me they quite firmly state that you've lost the discussion, and so must fall back on platitudes, so I don't particularly mind them. However I can see how Longknife finds them galling.

 

However I most certainly still hold that free speech is a virtue and a gift, that discussion is superior to hectoring and would not think of censoring any of your "content."

 

With all due respect of course.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Nonek

[BruceVC]

Well the chap has got a point about hypocrisy, when one decrys prostitution and then uses prostitutes, thus propogating the sex trade, that gentleman is a hypocrite and contributes to the problems sex workers face. You've still not explained why exactly you want virtual sex workers removed from GTAV, and yet can cheerfully overlook any other virtual victims of crime, such as those murdered, beaten, robbed, raped etcetera. In other words you want special attention paid to whitewashing sex workers from the game, why exactly, is this related to your use of real life sex workers?

 

The dodging answers thing has become a little too overused as well, been done just a few too many times now. I don't hold with Longknife's view that you intentionally need everything explaining purposefully, I think its just a limitation of your mental range (which I may be wrong about,) and that must obviously be forgiven. Your rote answers that everybody on the board can mimic before you've written them, well to me they quite firmly state that you've lost the discussion, and so must fall back on platitudes, so I don't particularly mind them. However I can see how Longknife finds them galling.

 

However I most certainly still hold that free speech is a virtue and a gift, that discussion is superior to hectoring and would not think of censoring any of your "content."

 

With all due respect of course.

 

Now, now Nonek. Lets try not to get too sententious. You need to accept that sometimes you don't have all the information to formulate an opinion  about someone's motives....a good example is how wrong you are in this post and my connection and opinion of the sex industry 

 

You just need  to ask me if you want my view or reason I have done certain things in my life ( yes sometimes I do miss the questions..just remind me   )

 

I never judged the sex industry, in fact I said legalize it and give the girls proper registered jobs so they pay tax and have legal rights 

 

But that doesn't mean I'm not acutely aware that escorts don't have great lives relative to most of us. I have been friends with certain escorts through the years as I use to be part of regular dance group and every weekend we would go to the same clubs, there was this  club called ESP that only opened on a Sunday morning and use to have a roof that opened so you danced in the glorious sunlight ..anyway I met many escorts at this club so I speak from personal experience

 

And I'm disappointed in your laziness, I explained exactly why I wanted hookers removed from GTA 

 

Its because of the article below , I would encourage you to read the whole article so you understand

 

http://www.polygon.com/2014/12/10/7364823/gta-5s-vicious-misogyny-ought-to-be-addressed-not-ignored

[Volourn]

"I explained exactly why I wanted hookers removed from GTA"

 

The explaination is obvious. You are a nazi who wants to mansplain why you get decide what games women can play or cannot play. That is EVIL. That is after you claimed you and your cohorts had no intention of taking gamers' games away. That, as per usual, was a typical feminist/SJW lie.

[Nonek]

Sorry Bruce but i'm not going to read an article from an anti consumer publication, nor give it any attention, so if you could summarise why you want to remove virtual sex workers from the game in your own words, and ignore any other victims of crime, please do so. Stop being lazy and try to explain in your own words.

 

As you stated earlier in the thread, you have used sex workers, and thus you are part of the problem and a hypocrite enabling the abuse that these poor young ladies must routinely suffer. I'm afraid that bearing this in mind i'm no longer disposed to listen to your sententious preaching on this subject, as your actions contribute to an evil and exploitative industry. Time to maybe stop lecturing us and everybody else and engage in some self reflection on your past deeds, and their impact on the women you bought.

 

Edit: Also if you respect sex workers so much then why are you using the term in a perjorative sense when calling Volourn's niece a whore, this hardly seems to conjure up a deep sense of respect or even common courtesy.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Nonek

[Zoraptor]

Just don't respond to Bruce. What do you expect to gain? You won't convince him if he has any good faith- his pattern of behaviour shows that conclusively- and the largest probability by far is that he's just plain trolling. In a sadly unentertaining manner. Just ignore him, and if you can't do that Ignore him.

[Volourn]

Ignorance is not a good idea. That makes us like evil SJWs.  Keep pounding the truth. Don't allow them to hide from it.

[BruceVC]

Sorry Bruce but i'm not going to read an article from an anti consumer publication, nor give it any attention, so if you could summarise why you want to remove virtual sex workers from the game in your own words, and ignore any other victims of crime, please do so. Stop being lazy and try to explain in your own words.

 

As you stated earlier in the thread, you have used sex workers, and thus you are part of the problem and a hypocrite enabling the abuse that these poor young ladies must routinely suffer. I'm afraid that bearing this in mind i'm no longer disposed to listen to your sententious preaching on this subject, as your actions contribute to an evil and exploitative industry. Time to maybe stop lecturing us and everybody else and engage in some self reflection on your past deeds, and their impact on the women you bought.

 

Edit: Also if you respect sex workers so much then why are you using the term in a perjorative sense when calling Volourn's niece a whore, this hardly seems to conjure up a deep sense of respect or even common courtesy.

Oh I forgot, you don't read certain websites because they don't follow the " GG code of etiquette "

 

Ironic that, you are all about freedom of information but you actively practice censorship....and you expect me to tell you what that article says...no I don't think so.

 

If you want to engage in a mature informed debate then you should learn to read all sources of information. Just because you personally don't agree with a website there is no reason it can't provide an interesting perspective. You have now effectively " cut your nose off to spite your face " . Thats sad, I'm glad I don't automatically  refuse to recognize certain websites ...whats next? Maybe you can burn some books you don't like ?

 

 

As far as the sex industry is concerned thats not one of the SJ campaigns I am actively involved in. I can't be involved in all SJ movements Nonek so I focus on issues I can impact. And as I have said twice the solution is to legalize sex work and protect the girls rights. Thats the best we can hope for because you will never make it go away. So I'm not sure what more you really expect me to say?  

 

And finally we generally don't use the word " whore" ...it is in fact demeaning . Its obvious who has the less respect for their lifestyle ...try to refer to hookers in a less insulting manner