Why is Columbus Day still going?

[Bryy]

I mean, I understand how propaganda works and all, but with so much historical data coming out of the woodwork, why is this still taught in schools?

 

Let alone a national holiday?

 

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/five-scary-christopher-columbus-quotes-that-let-you-celebrate-the-holiday-the-right-way/

 

It just boggles my mind, is all.

[Rosbjerg]

Tradition supercedes thruth - otherwise why should Thanksgiving, Christmas etc be celebrated as well?

[Tsuga C]

Because many Americans a) proudly scoff at the mandates of Political Correctness; b) appreciate and admire Western Civilization; c) work for a federal, state, or local governmental agency and enjoy having a 3-day weekend.

[Malcador]

I mean, I understand how propaganda works and all, but with so much historical data coming out of the woodwork, why is this still taught in schools?

 

Let alone a national holiday?

 

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/five-scary-christopher-columbus-quotes-that-let-you-celebrate-the-holiday-the-right-way/

 

It just boggles my mind, is all.

From here on forward, to troll people like you.

[Leferd]

I mean, I understand how propaganda works and all, but with so much historical data coming out of the woodwork, why is this still taught in schools?

 

Let alone a national holiday?

 

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/five-scary-christopher-columbus-quotes-that-let-you-celebrate-the-holiday-the-right-way/

 

It just boggles my mind, is all.

How convenient for the writers to cherry pick these truths.

 

Revisionists and popular historians are out to get published and easier way is to write about something that goes against the grain of orthodox thinking. It's so easy to apply moral relavatism and apply current standards of philosophy and thought and say these historical personages were contempable scumbags.

 

Was Columbus a mercenary? Yes. Did he hold superior and racist attitudes? Absolutely. Did he enslave? You betcha. Does he still deserve to be recognized and remembered for his brass balls, vision, and contributions to western civilization, and the impact he had on the course of history? Without a doubt.

 

I'd sooner rather watch Ridley Scott's' 1492: Conquest of Paradise and enjoy the holiday.

[ShadySands]

I don't get the day off so meh

[fgalkin]

 

Have a very nice day.

-fgalkin

[Tsuga C]

^ Right back at you, bub.

[fgalkin]

Yes, syphlis originated in the Americas and was spread to Europe by sailors. But, last I checked, Europe didn't lose 90% of its population then.

Also, you may want to choose a less biased source next time.

Have a very nice day.

-fgalkin

 

^ Right back at you, bub.

[ManifestedISO]

Oh, okay, that explains the lack of afternoon rush-hour today. The Navy and Marines stayed home today, too, probably. It was clear sailing, all the way from Del Mar to Oceanside, on a weekday ... I thought aliens had finally landed and abducted 100,000 drivers off the 5, just so I could make the distance without stopping, for once. Thanks aliens.  

[Wrath of Dagon]

People who are offended by Columbus should go back to wherever their ancestors came from. It's the only morally right thing to do.

[fgalkin]

Why? Would it bring the dead back?

(Btw, yes, I've left America for Europe and I'm loving it. Even with Obama's bull**** new foreign asset reporting law.).

 

Have a very nice day.

-fgalkin

 

People who are offended by Columbus should go back to wherever their ancestors came from. It's the only morally right thing to do.

[Oerwinde]

Does Columbus Day celebrate Columbus, or his discovery of the americas a couple centuries after the norse?

[ManifestedISO]

I heard it was close to a thousand years before Columbus. 

[Leferd]

People who are offended by Columbus should go back to wherever their ancestors came from. It's the only morally right thing to do.

Comments like this, even in jest are pretty vile. And especially not funny. But par for the course for a xenophobe like you.

 

Columbus wasn't exactly a saint, especially for the standards of his day. Hell, even St.Thomas More burned heretics at the stake.

[Hurlshort]

Oddly enough I was talking about this with some fellow history teachers.  We don't get the day off work anymore, but most of us find ourselves defending Columbus.

 

The guy was by and large a product of his times, and he kickstarted the exploration of the Americas.  Was he a terrible person?  Probably, but that's not really why he is in the history books.  He was at the helm of a major historical event.

 

But hey, I'm also just bitter that I don't get an extra three day weekend. 

[Bryy]

Was Columbus a mercenary? Yes. Did he hold superior and racist attitudes? Absolutely. Did he enslave? You betcha. Does he still deserve to be recognized and remembered for his brass balls, vision, and contributions to western civilization, and the impact he had on the course of history? Without a doubt.

I'd sooner rather watch Ridley Scott's' 1492: Conquest of Paradise and enjoy the holiday.

 

That's up for debate. What did he contribute? Does it really rank higher than slavery and genocide?

 

And I ask that in complete honesty.

 

 

Because many Americans a) proudly scoff at the mandates of Political Correctness; b) appreciate and admire Western Civilization

... wait what?

[Zoraptor]

Does Columbus Day celebrate Columbus, or his discovery of the americas a couple centuries after the norse?

 

Doesn't really matter, can't change it now. Leif Day sounds like some hippy kumbaya lentil eating festival, Erikson Day sounds like a Sony promotion for cell phones and there'd be lots of paperwork in having Erikson, Ohio, or Washington, District of Eriksonia.

 

I heard it was close to a thousand years before Columbus. 

 

Bit under 500 years. Also Polynesians came from the other direction from either Hawai'i or Easter Island which given their stone age technology is pretty impressive, though exactly when is an open question due to there not really being enough dateable evidence, just things like kumara being widespread.

[Valsuelm]

 

Was Columbus a mercenary? Yes. Did he hold superior and racist attitudes? Absolutely. Did he enslave? You betcha. Does he still deserve to be recognized and remembered for his brass balls, vision, and contributions to western civilization, and the impact he had on the course of history? Without a doubt.

I'd sooner rather watch Ridley Scott's' 1492: Conquest of Paradise and enjoy the holiday.

 

That's up for debate. What did he contribute? Does it really rank higher than slavery and genocide?

 

And I ask that in complete honesty.

 

 

Slavery has been around since before recorded history, it's still around today. Columbus isn't guilty of genocide. 

 

You apparently aren't as well versed with what you think is propaganda as you think (though I'd say you're too well versed in it if you think Columbus is guilty of genocide), or you weren't paying enough attention in first grade when they filled you in on what Columbus did if you really have to ask what he contributed.

 

And yes, what Columbus did does rank higher than slavery, especially in the context of the times and the effect his efforts had on the world over to this day. Few points and people in history loom as large as Columbus and what he did does.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Valsuelm

[Shallow]

Why is Genghis Khan still celebrated and practically worshipped in Mongolia? The past is the past, just let people enjoy their ****ing heritage, it's far enough back that we shouldn't care. Columbus isn't exactly what most would consider a nice guy, but what he achieved was really significant, admittedly that achievement was mainly due to him being mistaken about how big earth was, but that doesn't mean modern day non-native-Americans shouldn't celebrate him finding their home. I get why Columbus isn't really loved amongst native Americans, but they should either get over it, or start another American Indian war.

[Hurlshort]

The genocide label is fairly ridiculous, it implies that Columbus somehow knew that European diseases were going to rip through Native American populations.  

 

If you really want to go all out on this campaign, you should go after Cortes and Pizarro first.

[Valsuelm]

The genocide label is fairly ridiculous, it implies that Columbus somehow knew that European diseases were going to rip through Native American populations.  

 

If you really want to go all out on this campaign, you should go after Cortes and Pizarro first.

 

I hope you know that there's little to no evidence that Euro diseases wreaked near as much havoc as modern myth spearheaded by such popular historians as Jared Diamond would have people believe. Someone who really represents the worst of what's come out of the history corner of academia the last few decades.

 

There's theory, some of which is plausible, much of which is not, but folks who push the 'Germs' aspect of what happened in the Americas post Europeans showing up tend to have about zero evidence to support their theory, and ignore all sorts of evidence that would refute it. Not to mention, when you get down to it, they're racist eugenicists who think that Europeans are genetically superior to those native to the Americas. Whether they acknowledge that or not, that's one of the things their theory is saying at the end of the day. However it is more than likely they didn't think that theory through and are not guilty of racism, just guilty of intellectual laziness on many levels, as on many levels this theory largely falls flat.

 

But yes, even if those theories were true (something which would fly in the face of most of the evidence that there is the world over), calling it genocide is beyond ridiculous. 'Genocide' is a term that is far far overused and misapplied in all sorts of contexts these days, not just this one.

 

To be clear, this is not to say for the uninformed that disease wasn't an issue for Europeans, Native Americans, et al back in the day, but it wasn't the genocidal widespread wiping out most of the population stuff that idiots like Diamond would have you believe. This myth is possibly the most widespread bit of hogwash revisionism to catch on in modern times. 

Edited October 14, 2014 by Valsuelm

[Leferd]

Yeah. That genocide rap is a bit...much.

 

If anything, the annihilation and subjugation of native Americans can be attributed to European powers in general, but to blame it on Coumbus is a stretch.

 

So what did he do right?

 

He had an explorer's spirit, no matter how mercenary. Columbus dared to prove that he could reach the Indies by going west. His calculations were off, but along the way, he "discovered" the "New World." He went against church teachings in a time when heretics and heathens had to suffer through the inquisition. So he had to go under the conceit of converting the "savages" for the greater glory of God. That's the price of doing business.

 

Leif Ericson, Polynesians, Chinese notwithstanding, Columbus's achievements was a known event and word spread and colonization happened, for good or ill. This was a tangible fact that shaped the way the world is. It's not insignificant.

[ManifestedISO]

Aw, jeez, first the Holocaust never happened, now the Inca were never decimated. Come on. 

[Valsuelm]

Aw, jeez, first the Holocaust never happened, now the Inca were never decimated. Come on. 

 

To my knowledge, no one has stated either on this forum. Both assertions you make are gross exaggerations of what some have said about both things.

 

Insofar as the Inca and 'genocide in the Americas'. I'll just say these two things.

 

1) If we accept that the 'Inca were decimated' by disease, brought by the Europeans, what does that have to do with the Navajo, Iroquois, Apache, Maya, and countless other tribes who did and didn't suffer serious bouts of disease to varying degrees? The inca are indeed the best general examples of plague in the New World after the Euros showed up.

 

2) The evidence that there is fairly overwhelmingly suggests that the Inca were in the midst of a plague and a civil war before the Europeans actually showed up (the Spanish really got lucky in their timing). The evidence further suggests that there were a series of devastating civil wars and widespread bits of death (unknown for sure causes) in the few centuries prior to Columbus ever setting sail for the 'New World'.