New build feedback

[Monte Carlo]

 

Hmmm. Just made an average (12) Might but high Dex / Con Orlan fighter and am a tiny, turbo-charged killing machine (sabre / stiletto dual wield).

 

So that's the light-fighter squared away. How do you build a decent tank?

Make a Fighter with high CON / INT / and maybe Resolve (optional)

 

 

....and that's what pisses me off.

 

It's horsesh*t that a high intelligence fighter is a better tank that a high might one. It's just perverse for the sake of it.

[Fiebras]

You could rationalize that an intelligent fighter would know how do dodge and use his armor, muscle mass and strength to better avoid damage than a brute thats going in and letting himself get hit.

 

And then a smart Wizard would also be smarter about avoiding damage than a dumb wizard how all "Full YOLO^TM" about his spellcasting (Like say Ridcully).

 

I can ratonalize it that way and my IMMERSHUN remains unbroken. Makes sense to me at least.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Fiebras

[Cubiq]

I went to pick up the ogre's head on hard dificulty, and this is my impression of combat that i felt i didn't like.

 

Still can't do anything if one of your character's health starts to get low in combat that is surrounded by +2 enemies.

It makes the combat really annoying.

Now as soon as i see it i just press the reload button.

Combining the engagement mechanic with the no healing policy is a horrible system.

 

The combat runs fluently however the starting tactics needs work.

I went to the beetle forsest and it feelt like an MMO grind.

The starting tactics were alway the same.

Locate a group of mobs, pull with spell, then send tank to pick everything up.

You get several spells you can cast on them that doesn't initiate combat, like web and a fire wall.

So now you replaced pre-buffing with traps. It's the same thing.

 

There are more abilities now, for each class.

Sounds fun, untill you realise you now need to keep pausing to keep clicking abilities for every class, since some of them are per encounter and you're pretty much wasting them if you don't use them.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Cubiq

[Matt516]

 

 

 

 

Hmmm. Just made an average (12) Might but high Dex / Con Orlan fighter and am a tiny, turbo-charged killing machine (sabre / stiletto dual wield).

 

So that's the light-fighter squared away. How do you build a decent tank?

Make a Fighter with high CON / INT / and maybe Resolve (optional)

....and that's what pisses me off.

 

It's horsesh*t that a high intelligence fighter is a better tank that a high might one. It's just perverse for the sake of it.

http://imgur.com/m5T4JYK

[TheNationer]

Speaking as a weaksauce player, am I to directly take that a MIGHT + CON guy would be a bad tank?

Edited September 27, 2014 by TheNationer

[mutonizer]

Speaking as a weaksauce player, am I to directly take that a MIGHT + CON guy would be a bad tank?

Not..bad. Just wasted space overall.

That said, the differences are not that big anyway, just don't dump stat is all, that can really screw up your defenses.

 

Tanky fighter is really one of the best attribute balanced so far I think.

And while rogues destroy everything, melee DPS fighters are more...stable overall and they kick some serious **** too.

 

As a note, I'm testing a 1 fighter 1 cleric rest rogue party to check things out. Weeeeee bit crazy

Edited September 27, 2014 by mutonizer

[archangel979]

Speaking as a weaksauce player, am I to directly take that a MIGHT + CON guy would be a bad tank?

Might is for damage. Strength didn't make a good tank in D&D as well except minimum strength needed for some armour.

[Monte Carlo]

 

Speaking as a weaksauce player, am I to directly take that a MIGHT + CON guy would be a bad tank?

Might is for damage. Strength didn't make a good tank in D&D as well except minimum strength needed for some armour.

 

 

 

STR = Thaco and damage. Puh-leez.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Monte Carlo

[Monte Carlo]

 

 

 

Hmmm. Just made an average (12) Might but high Dex / Con Orlan fighter and am a tiny, turbo-charged killing machine (sabre / stiletto dual wield).

 

So that's the light-fighter squared away. How do you build a decent tank?

Make a Fighter with high CON / INT / and maybe Resolve (optional)

....and that's what pisses me off.

 

It's horsesh*t that a high intelligence fighter is a better tank that a high might one. It's just perverse for the sake of it.

http://imgur.com/m5T4JYK

 

 

That's all very well, and indeed mildly amusing.

 

But...

 

Sawyer said there were lots of viable builds and no dump stats. You couldn't make a gimped character, right?

 

Now, in the name of all that is holy, you can make a brain-fighter but not a muscle fighter. I know Sawyer isn't that enamoured of fantasy RPGs as a genre, but this is a cosmic piss-take too far.

[ManifestedISO]

Gadzooks, why is everyone coming up bald-faced backwards today. Backward-facing bald asses. Ass-facing bald backs.  

[Namutree]

 

 

 

That's all very well, and indeed mildly amusing.

 

But...

 

Sawyer said there were lots of viable builds and no dump stats. You couldn't make a gimped character, right?

 

Now, in the name of all that is holy, you can make a brain-fighter but not a muscle fighter. I know Sawyer isn't that enamoured of fantasy RPGs as a genre, but this is a cosmic piss-take too far.

 

You can make a muscle fighter. He's not as good a tank, but he'll be able to do more damage than an brain-fighter. 

[Uomoz]

MC it's the complete opposite. A Might warrior will do a lot more damage while an int warrior will hold better the line. More variations of the same class is better than IE style monobuilds.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Uomoz

[Niccolado]

By Odin's Manly Beard... someone did a polish run on this one. I mean it's not release quality yet, but just moving around... the sounds. The opening of stuff. The responsiveness... I've yet to take everything in, still didn't go into combat, but it feels so right...

 

This feels like the first time you get a pair of glasses after you've spent a life seeing like crap.

 

At the moment I am stuck in the new patch, because now I cant get through the last door at Dyrford ruins. The door leading to the Nobles daughter you been looking for. Requirement is now for lockpicking 11, but its a base 11 and my thief got a base at 9 or so, even if I pooled most of my points (33 points) into it. So I guess I am stuck. Trying to do some stuff at Lle a Rhemen too, but I cant get much anywhere there either. But that I guess is my fault and not the game mechanics.

[Monte Carlo]

My point is that my might fighter died quickly. So whats the point?

[Namutree]

My point is that my might fighter died quickly. So whats the point?

You'll do more damage. That's the point.

 

More variations of the same class is better than IE style monobuilds.

I don't think that's fair to the IE games. I've made different builds for fighters in the IE games before. Honestly they were more different than the builds you can make in poe so far since attributes don't make a huge difference.

[Matt516]

Might doesn't make you more survivable!! STR didn't make you more survivable in IE games either! Better thac0 let you do more damage, not survive longer. I'm completely at a loss as to what your complaint is here...

[Uomoz]

 

My point is that my might fighter died quickly. So whats the point?

You'll do more damage. That's the point.

 

More variations of the same class is better than IE style monobuilds.

I don't think that's fair to the IE games. I've made different builds for fighters in the IE games before. Honestly they were more different than the builds you can make in poe so far since attributes don't make a huge difference.

 

 

Mhhhh, I was thinking mostly to BG1 that has the power level we should compare PoE to. In BG1 there was only archer warrior and melee warrior, so the diversity was about that.

[Monte Carlo]

Might doesn't make you more survivable!! STR didn't make you more survivable in IE games either! Better thac0 let you do more damage, not survive longer. I'm completely at a loss as to what your complaint is here...

 

It's really very simple. I made a high Might / Con two-handed paladin and barbarian.

 

Both were crap in combat.

 

I made a high dex fighter with crap strength who was great in combat. The stat value imbalance seems out of kilter.

[Captain Shrek]

MC, a tank is a popular term with MMOs which means a character that can hold the line. It has nothing whatsoever to do with doing damage. 

[Matt516]

 

 

Might doesn't make you more survivable!! STR didn't make you more survivable in IE games either! Better thac0 let you do more damage, not survive longer. I'm completely at a loss as to what your complaint is here...

It's really very simple. I made a high Might / Con two-handed paladin and barbarian.

 

Both were crap in combat.

 

I made a high dex fighter with crap strength who was great in combat. The stat value imbalance seems out of kilter.

That's a completely subjective experience though. For all anyone on this forum knows, you could just not know how to play a high Might/Con character in this game. I'm not saying that's what's going on, just that highly nonspecific anecdotal evidence doesn't serve as a compelling argument for stats being out of balance.

[Namutree]

 

 

My point is that my might fighter died quickly. So whats the point?

You'll do more damage. That's the point.

 

More variations of the same class is better than IE style monobuilds.

I don't think that's fair to the IE games. I've made different builds for fighters in the IE games before. Honestly they were more different than the builds you can make in poe so far since attributes don't make a huge difference.

 

 

Mhhhh, I was thinking mostly to BG1 that has the power level we should compare PoE to. In BG1 there was only archer warrior and melee warrior, so the diversity was about that.

 

Not true. Make a Fighter with 14 STR 18 CON 18 DEX with proficiency in long-sword equipped with a shield and you'll get a great tank.

Make a fighter with 18 STR 18 CON 14 DEX with proficiency in two-handed sword and you'll get an epic slayer.

The builds can be very different based on how you set up attributes & what type of melee weapon you specialize in.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

@Hiroguy that fight's outcome is exactly the same without using nudes and without any particular minmaxing (I can make a video of that if you need, do you?), the main difference in our strats is that I'm not forced to reload the instant an enemy decides to focus my second liners.

 

Sure, do a video. I'd like to see you do it on Hard and have half your party out of the battle and not doing anything most of the time.

 

Funny how I never have to reload. In fact, I said two of my characters didn't do anything for most of the battle with only casting one spell. And another two casted a couple of spells and didn't do anything for the rest of the battle.

 

So yes, lets see that video of you having party members stand at a distance and not do anything for most of the battle.

[Fiebras]

I knew you could crit on spells. I however didnt realize you could crit on AOE Spells and that the damage roll was per-individual as oposed to one big damage roll.

Fireball just became my favorite damage spell:

 

 

 

 

I dont know what it is, Im simply finding combat this version a whole lot more fun for some reason. Im sure part of the reason is that I can more easily understand whats going on thanks to the combat log. The downside to this is that 1/4 of my screen is ocupied by the combat log as its a bit of a drag to reduce and open it after every combat. Maybe mouse scrolling could be smoother/faster.

 

It feels quite liberating to just just use your per-rest spells every encounter or so without the munchking-mentality of having to save them for important ocasions. It must be the Hard difficulty. Its fun.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Fiebras

[archangel979]

 

 

 

Speaking as a weaksauce player, am I to directly take that a MIGHT + CON guy would be a bad tank?

Might is for damage. Strength didn't make a good tank in D&D as well except minimum strength needed for some armour.

 

STR = Thaco and damage. Puh-leez.

And how does thaco and damage help you tank?

Strength is dps stat. Con and Dex are tank stats.

[Hormalakh]

Thanks for the positive comments about the inventory system guys! I know Kaz has seen it, so hopefully it sparks some fresh ideas for the dev team. Cheers to everyone.