Drama in the indy gaming biz ?

[Chaz]

Why buy into the hate train that the extremes of both sides are riding? They're clearly fanatics.

 

One side over attached to the games they play and overreacting when it is threatened by lying extremists who wish to restrict gaming to their own personal flawed vision, so much so that they resort to threats of violence and rape. They are quite clearly upset by the threat to their style of living, which is admittedly unhealthy, no one should be that invested in an entertainment product.

 

 

Well, this is kind of condescending and very similar to the arguement "its just games, who cares?" a lot of us care, we spend our hard earned money in our hobby, both hardware and software, and it's not just us, many developers are afraid to lose their job, are afraid to have their careers ruined because this agenda driven journalists will go after anyone that doesnt conform to their worldview, not only I have heard of a lot of cases, two of them have been personally messaging me.

 

And this has been happening for a while because the majority of gamers were silent about it, either they didn't know or they did know and wanted to "stay neutral". Well if someone doesn't want to get involved they have all the right in the world, but don't paint the people that care about this as extremists. Do I condemn death threats? (weather they really happened or not) absolutely. But is not cool to be called extremists just because you want to discuss this.

 

[Malcador]

Why buy into the hate train that the extremes of both sides are riding? They're clearly fanatics.

For me, it's just a joy in watching things burn like they are.

[Nonek]

 

Why buy into the hate train that the extremes of both sides are riding? They're clearly fanatics.

 

One side over attached to the games they play and overreacting when it is threatened by lying extremists who wish to restrict gaming to their own personal flawed vision, so much so that they resort to threats of violence and rape. They are quite clearly upset by the threat to their style of living, which is admittedly unhealthy, no one should be that invested in an entertainment product.

 

 

Well, this is kind of condescending and very similar to the arguement "its just games, who cares?" a lot of us care, we spend our hard earned money in our hobby, both hardware and software, and it's not just us, many developers are afraid to lose their job, are afraid to have their careers ruined because this agenda driven journalists will go after anyone that doesnt conform to their worldview, not only I have heard of a lot of cases, two of them have been personally messaging me.

 

And this has been happening for a while because the majority of gamers were silent about it, either they didn't know or they did know and wanted to "stay neutral". Well if someone doesn't want to get involved they have all the right in the world, but don't paint the people that care about this as extremists. Do I condemn death threats? (weather they really happened or not) absolutely. But is not cool to be called extremists just because you want to discuss this.

 

 

I do apologise if that's how you read that Mr Chaz, but i'm for discussion, for highlighting of the corrupt practises being revealed and for a better press who are held accountable. I'm simply against sinking to the level of death and rape threats, that the extremist elements on both sides are taking part in, i'd say that it's better to be moderate and judge objectively according to what has occured, not buy into the hate train that the extremists are riding. After all that just paints us all in a negative light.

 

Wanting to discuss this does not make you an extremist, and at no point in my post did I say this, in fact my position was in direct opposition to that, I would say wanting to discuss this makes you a moderate.

 

Edit: Once again if you found this preachy or condescending I do apologise, because that was not my aim. It's most certainly not my aim aim to stifle or censor discussion, as I believe in free speech and belive that those who try and oppose it are villainous and immoral.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Nonek

[Fighter]

I don't believe in conspiracy theories but these "Death of Gamers" articles appear freakishly coordinated and as if designed to push a common agenda. Also they are nearly going full retard.

 

http://gamasutra.com/blogs/DevinWilson/20140828/224450/A_Guide_to_Ending_%20quotGamersquot.php
 

 

We become far more mindful of the games we make and play. Sexism in games is pervasive and toxic. Racism in games is pervasive and toxic. Violence in games is pervasive and toxic. Despite the skepticism the games press shows at every opportunity, it *really* looks like violent games *do* make us more aggressive and less empathetic. If researchers are repeatedly suggesting this and then we complain that the vilest people in our communities are too aggressive and not empathetic enough, aren’t we partially to blame for our general eagerness to make and play games that have these overall effects on people? If you think you’re not affected, you’re sorely mistaken and you sound no less ridiculous than people who claim that advertising doesn’t work on them. (By the way, kids are regularly playing violent games too, because that’s what our culture says is expected of “real gamers”. ESRB ratings are pretty useless.)

 

 

Someone call Jack Thompson and all the rest of them. And then they tell people "no one is trying to take your games away"?

 

We stop upholding “fun” as the universal, ultimate criterion for a game’s relevance. It’s a meaningless ideal at best and a poisonous priority at worst. Fun is a neurological trick. Plenty of categorically unhealthy things are “fun”. Let’s try for something more. Many of the alternatives will have similarly fuzzy definitions, but let’s aspire to qualities like “edifying”, “healing”, “pro-social”, or even “enlightening”. I encourage you to decide upon your own alternatives to “fun” in games (while avoiding terms like “cool” and “awesome” and any other word that simply caters to existing, unexamined biases).

 

Right. We can't just unload and have fun anymore we need to be indoctrinated with the agenda these guys deem relevant.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I don't believe in conspiracy theories but these "Death of Gamers" articles appear freakishly coordinated and as if designed to push a common agenda. Also they are nearly going full retard.

 

http://gamasutra.com/blogs/DevinWilson/20140828/224450/A_Guide_to_Ending_%20quotGamersquot.php

 

 

We become far more mindful of the games we make and play. Sexism in games is pervasive and toxic. Racism in games is pervasive and toxic. Violence in games is pervasive and toxic. Despite the skepticism the games press shows at every opportunity, it *really* looks like violent games *do* make us more aggressive and less empathetic. If researchers are repeatedly suggesting this and then we complain that the vilest people in our communities are too aggressive and not empathetic enough, aren’t we partially to blame for our general eagerness to make and play games that have these overall effects on people? If you think you’re not affected, you’re sorely mistaken and you sound no less ridiculous than people who claim that advertising doesn’t work on them. (By the way, kids are regularly playing violent games too, because that’s what our culture says is expected of “real gamers”. ESRB ratings are pretty useless.)

 

Someone call Jack Thompson and all the rest of them. And then they tell people "no one is trying to take your games away"?

We stop upholding “fun” as the universal, ultimate criterion for a game’s relevance. It’s a meaningless ideal at best and a poisonous priority at worst. Fun is a neurological trick. Plenty of categorically unhealthy things are “fun”. Let’s try for something more. Many of the alternatives will have similarly fuzzy definitions, but let’s aspire to qualities like “edifying”, “healing”, “pro-social”, or even “enlightening”. I encourage you to decide upon your own alternatives to “fun” in games (while avoiding terms like “cool” and “awesome” and any other word that simply caters to existing, unexamined biases).

Right. We can't just unload and have fun anymore we need to be indoctrinated with the agenda these guys deem relevant.

....

 

That has to be one of the worst articles I've skimmed through. Do these people not understand that videogames are played for fun?

[Lexx]

vidya gaems are serious business.

[Malcador]

....

 

That has to be one of the worst articles I've skimmed through. Do these people not understand that videogames are played for fun?

You sound like a gamer, boy...

 

I did like a video by Matt Lees (no idea why he is relevant, I am sure he is for something) which was theorizing that without women the games industry will stagnate and that if you just like playing games and not talking about them, you should **** off.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

http://gamasutra.com/blogs/DevinWilson/20140828/224450/A_Guide_to_Ending_%20quotGamersquot.php

 

 

Wow, that was kinda dumb. Certainly read worse, but I could still feel losing a few brain cells to it.

[Meshugger]

I like how they try to somehow control the narrative of what videogames should be, all while the industry just is. 

 

It's like they read Brave New World and 1984, loved them respectively to death and the only thing that they cannot agree upon is according to which one they should reshape their culture. And by "culture", it is something that they made up in their heads, since no one in the public does use "gamer" as a character-trait. People like to listen to music, they are not music-listeners. People like to read books, they are not readers. People like to watch movies, they are not "moviers". 

 

It seems like they are so hollow inside that they cannot define themselves as persons with ideas, interests and philosophies. Instead, they use projections of something that already "is" and add that as definition of themselves. For example, instead someone trying to explain why they like "Sheena is a Punk rocker" by The Ramones, they say that the song defines them as a person, all while anyone else would try to tell why the lyrics mean so much to them, on why the melody resonate with them, on why the song-structure is so perfect and so on. It's like they lack the intellectual capacity to define themselves and from this lack of self-reflection seems to stem a strong desire to control others.

 

Basically, the very fear from not knowing themselves makes them try to control the minds of others. 

 

Well, that's my opinion, at least.

[NWN_babaYaga]

@Meshugger

 

that was journalism or what it should be. Thanks for this thought!

[Fighter]

"We make and play fewer linear games about one person saving the world. Take a look at the people terrorizing games culture lately: they're almost all tyrannical brats with messianic delusions. Where do you think they’re learning this behavior from?"

 

This is just hilarious.

[Chaz]

I don't believe in conspiracy theories but these "Death of Gamers" articles appear freakishly coordinated and as if designed to push a common agenda. Also they are nearly going full retard.

 

http://gamasutra.com/blogs/DevinWilson/20140828/224450/A_Guide_to_Ending_%20quotGamersquot.php

 

I appears coordinated because IT IS. There are more than 10 articles that came out roughly the same day with the same talking point "gamers are dead" (you can click to see them). This narrative was built by Silverstring Media a PR company that works with all of these gaming sites.

 

A pretty cultish organizations that seems to want to use gaming as a tool to build culture as they see fit, and you know in who works in Silverstring? Anita Sarkeesian, why do you think everytime she farts the whole gaming media is reporting on it? she works at the PR company that is associated with them, that feeds them narrative.

 

Also here's a new video if you are interested in more information, Silverstring Media and corruption/rigging of the IGF (indie games festival)

 

http://youtu.be/TgW5NRUfs44

 

 

Edited September 1, 2014 by Chaz

[Nonek]

So does anybody else think that these zealots are trying to enforce a politically correct creative checklist for games, with jobs built in for "consultants" (i.e. themselves) and their agendas, in other words to try and censor and control any kind of artistic output according to their own currently fashionable sensibilities?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

So does anybody else think that these zealots are trying to enforce a politically correct creative checklist for games, with jobs built in for "consultants" (i.e. themselves) and their agendas, in other words to try and censor and control any kind of artistic output according to their own currently fashionable sensibilities?

Yes.

[Chaz]

So does anybody else think that these zealots are trying to enforce a politically correct creative checklist for games, with jobs built in for "consultants" (i.e. themselves) and their agendas, in other words to try and censor and control any kind of artistic output according to their own currently fashionable sensibilities?

 

Did you see my post? they coordinated the 10 articles saying gamers are dead. And this is not new, this has been happening for years. When the first tropes vs women came out, idiots like me complained about it but we don't have a big voice, the media praised her (since now it turns out they are associated with her) and the gaming personalities either praised her or ingored her and remained silent.

 

Doesn't it seem weird that some personalities that are very vocal (like totalbiscuit or angryjoe) never really talked about it, aside from maybe a small comment here or there? The ones that analyzed and critiqued her videos were people that had NOTHING to do with gaming, like Amazing Atheist (a guy that talks about atheism and other things) and Thunderf00t (a guy that does experiments and debunks creationists) sure those guys are gamers but they were nowhere near close to the "gaming scene"

 

These people, that talk... more like demand "equality"  "diversity" and "representation" in video games are nothing but a small club, a closed circle of 1st world priviliged white guys and girls that are all in bed with eachother and are completely corrupt, they work in journalism, in indie development and in PR and who knows how deep does this go.

 

And they have to go, and hopefully will, because if what I know is true, these people have commited fraud and this might get legal.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Chaz

[Fighter]

Wow. So I've just been briefly skimming through the links related to Silverstring Media from that video. It's kinda creepy. The entire thing about the 'gamer identity' seems to originate in this feminist article from 2013. And considering this "PR company" is connected to so many gaming sites AND Anita Sarkissian (who's listed as an advisor for them)...

 

...that is a conflict of interest if I saw one. I mean how can these sites presume to honestly cover her and everything around her with those types of connections?

 

All these sites that are linked to the same PR firm putting out those identical "gamer identity articles" that stem from an older work connected to their PR firm... This is eerily sounding like a conspiracy.

 

This is something that apparently comes from them:

 

"We talked a big game at DiGRA about dismantling hegemonic masculinity through intimate friendships. Tearing down those emotional walls that are part of the infrastructure of gendered oppression. Pursuing that male emotional fulfillment that Samantha Allen writes about as essential to the liberation of women. Meghan echoed my call for a games criticism and academia camping trip. Can we just leave the building? Not always. As we kept saying when we designed State Torture Jenga, something compels the players to keep manipulating the architecture. There is no such thing as inaction. There’s just the daily work of trying to turn these structures inside out."

 

That is just creepy regardless of what you think about their proclaimed social justice goals how these people are connected to the gaming media and to Sarkissian whom the gaming media is supposed to cover honestly. 

[Nonek]

Yes the case does seem to be forming that this is their endgoal Messr's Chaz and Fighter, especially with their current vocation as Game Journalists being so undermined and devalued at the moment, and this may have been their goal for some time. I'm just naturally sceptical when it comes to conspiracy theories however.

 

Certainly it does not herald a bright future if this succeeds, with corrupt, unethical, liars paid to enforce a code of conduct upon artistic expression, Mary Whitehouse obviously springs to mind, though these people are far less palatable or moral.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Nonek

[Longknife]

 

I don't believe in conspiracy theories but these "Death of Gamers" articles appear freakishly coordinated and as if designed to push a common agenda. Also they are nearly going full retard.

 

http://gamasutra.com/blogs/DevinWilson/20140828/224450/A_Guide_to_Ending_%20quotGamersquot.php

 

I appears coordinated because IT IS. There are more than 10 articles that came out roughly the same day with the same talking point "gamers are dead" (you can click to see them). This narrative was built by Silverstring Media a PR company that works with all of these gaming sites.

 

A pretty cultish organizations that seems to want to use gaming as a tool to build culture as they see fit, and you know in who works in Silverstring? Anita Sarkeesian, why do you think everytime she farts the whole gaming media is reporting on it? she works at the PR company that is associated with them, that feeds them narrative.

 

Also here's a new video if you are interested in more information, Silverstring Media and corruption/rigging of the IGF (indie games festival)

 

http://youtu.be/TgW5NRUfs44

 

 

 

 

 

This is the big story right here and THIS is what needs to be public knowledge.  It's by no means a conspiracy theory if it all adds up, and the motivation is clear as day. Of COURSE Anita and Co would view their actions as good and helpful so they get involved in what's essentially propaganda.

 

Pretty weird to see that kinda **** targeting gaming culture though....really, you've got no one better or more productive to target?

[HoonDing]

[Chaz]

 

 

This is the big story right here and THIS is what needs to be public knowledge.  It's by no means a conspiracy theory if it all adds up, and the motivation is clear as day. Of COURSE Anita and Co would view their actions as good and helpful so they get involved in what's essentially propaganda.

 

Pretty weird to see that kinda **** targeting gaming culture though....really, you've got no one better or more productive to target?

 

 

Well isn't the gaming industry supposed to be bigger than the movie industry by now? and many think that it will be the medium that defines the century.

 

When games were a small industry and devs were smalltimers, political and idiological groups would ignore them because they were not worth their time, and games could really be "By Gamers for Gamers" I guess that now that games are huge, a lot of people would love to hold control of the industry and the creative process and use games to forge their own culture, like these lunatics at Silverstring.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Chaz

[Nonek]

It does make sense that these, lets face it, untalented and unscrupulous  people would try and leech onto one of the largest, growing industries in the modern world. In print media, television and film they'd be eaten up and spat out by the professionals, who maintain somewhat of a stranglehold. However with the relative newness of this medium, and the lack of representation, responsibility and oversight that gamers and developers have, it must seem like an open biscuit jar.

[Chaz]

It does make sense that these, lets face it, untalented and unscrupulous  people would try and leech onto one of the largest, growing industries in the modern world. In print media, television and film they'd be eaten up and spat out by the professionals, who maintain somewhat of a stranglehold. However with the relative newness of this medium, and the lack of representation, responsibility and oversight that gamers and developers have, it must seem like an open biscuit jar.

 

 

Now let's just hope that your favorite Game Dev Studio (like Obsidian or InXile) is not beign adviced by the lunatics at Silverstring media or someone like them.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Chaz

[Zoraptor]

That has to be one of the worst articles I've skimmed through. Do these people not understand that videogames are played for fun?

 

At least theoretically most of the people writing those articles play or make games as a job. I'm not at all sympathetic with their position or philosophy on this matter, but I can certainly see games reviewers or producers not finding games to be 'fun' since they're involved with them all the time. I'm actually reminded of a quote from Friends, of all things, in reference to dating gynecologists:

 

Dr. Franzblau: I try not to let my work affect my personal life, but it's hard, when you... do what I do. It's like uh...Well, for instance, what do you do?

Rachel: I'm a waitress

Dr. Franzblau: Okay, all right, well aren't there times when you come home at the end of the day, and you're just like, "If I see one more cup of coffee..."

It's another problem that they don't have the self reflection to be able to see that their view may not be universal or even generally applicable, but, well, that isn't exactly a surprising revelation. A bit of introspection and this controversy would have been over long ago, or never happened.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Zoraptor

[Fighter]

So Jen Frank writes an article for The Guardian defending Zoe Quinn who she pays money through Patreon while Zoe's PR agent Maya Kramer pays Jen Frank again through Patreon.

 

I don't think the few dollars they pay each other through Patreon is such a big deal. But this is just hilariously not how journalism is supposed to work. You. just. can't. do. this. ****.

[Nonek]

 

It does make sense that these, lets face it, untalented and unscrupulous  people would try and leech onto one of the largest, growing industries in the modern world. In print media, television and film they'd be eaten up and spat out by the professionals, who maintain somewhat of a stranglehold. However with the relative newness of this medium, and the lack of representation, responsibility and oversight that gamers and developers have, it must seem like an open biscuit jar.

 

 

Now let's just hope that your favorite Game Dev Studio (like Obsidian or InXile) is not beign adviced by the lunatics at Silverstring media or someone like them.

 

 

I doubt old industry veterans like Mr Urquhart or Fargo would be taken in by these frauds, it would more likely be a younger less sceptical demographic who fall for such chicanery.