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Marceror

This game needs polish!

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They have two QA teams that can focus on quest bugs and stuff in other areas of the game - their internal QA and the QA provided by Paradox Interactive.

 

I think it's good that we are only getting to do this small area of the game. We are mostly for suggestions, UI, combat, performance, general bugs ... etc etc

I understand that a large portion of the community prefers it this way. I respect that.

 

Just saying that when it comes to testing a massive game like PoE, the more folks who are testing large portions of the game, the more bugs that will be identified and addressed, and the more stable the final product will be. I can basically guarantee that the Obsidian and Paradox QA folks combined won't catch all the bugs, because, well, when does that ever happen?

 

So while I've been chastised for my comments about the current release of the beta being essentially unplayable, by folks who believe they can help make the game better in spite of those game breakers weighing them down, I find it somewhat ironic that the same community seems to draw the line at spoilers. Sorry Obsidian, but we're not helping with the other 90% of the game.

 

Not quite as diehard as a lot of people are claiming to be, but I suppose I get it. After the years of waiting and the larger than usual financial contributions folks want to ultimately experience the final product as any other paying customer would. As long as Obsidian is committed to supporting this game well after release, I'm sure they will squash those remaining bugs after final release. I'm fine with that.


"Now to find a home for my other staff."
My Project Eternity Interview with Adam Brennecke

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Hey there Panther. I may have to steal your line. I don't think I've ever been called a troll until recently on this forum, but I guess maybe I should figure out what my response ought to be. Typically, it will just be to ignore the silly comments.

 

People are quick to call others a "troll" nowadays.  I tend to think that at one point or another in our online lives we've all been accused of being a "troll" by someone else. 

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It really -really- helps when you see criticism of the game to resist arguing and devolving the thread into a big argument. All the white knighting does is bury the criticism and then the developer has a hard time seeing it.

 

I remember during the FTL beta the developer was adamant that the game should have no save system. Luckily, in that particular feedback thread the white knights didn't go on a rampage and enough people posted their thoughts on why a save system is good. FTL shipped with a save game system. The exact opposite happened with SRR.

 

Really, just resist the urge. If you're very emotionally involved with this title it's better to direct your energy to something more constructive than arguing for several pages with someone who has a negative opinion of the game.

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That's not how opinions work. People who disagree with negative opinions/criticisms are not always White Knights, and people who prefer it the original way should speak up or certain devs might go around making changes that appeal to the vocal minority based on forum posts.

 

The reason that the "White Knights" didn't rampage through your FTL save thread might be because it was genuinely a good idea to implement a save system and most people could agree on that. Not because they just decided to have a day off. 

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It really -really- helps when you see criticism of the game to resist arguing and devolving the thread into a big argument. All the white knighting does is bury the criticism and then the developer has a hard time seeing it.

 

I remember during the FTL beta the developer was adamant that the game should have no save system. Luckily, in that particular feedback thread the white knights didn't go on a rampage and enough people posted their thoughts on why a save system is good. FTL shipped with a save game system. The exact opposite happened with SRR.

 

Really, just resist the urge. If you're very emotionally involved with this title it's better to direct your energy to something more constructive than arguing for several pages with someone who has a negative opinion of the game.

 

You think you might be creating a hasty generalization here? It seems to me that those "white knights" could just as easily be defending the system that's already in place because they prefer it, not because they're white knights of hopeless fan boys or whatever else. Disliking a currently implemented system isn't the only acceptable position, it's equally important for those that do like the system to speak their mind because if they don't they they'll have no one to blame but themselves when the developers end up changing a system at the request of vocal critics, be they the majority or the minority. Only those who speak up can be heard.

 

I wasn't on those forums you mentioned for FTL and SRR so for all I know they were just mindlessly defending the system that was currently in place regardless of their opinion of it, though I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would do that.

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"Forsooth, methinks you are no ordinary talking chicken!"

-Protagonist, Baldur's Gate

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In the FTL case it was pretty much mindless defense and yelling. There were a few people who kept telling everyone they're wrong :)

 

I'm not saying don't speak up but at seven pages I'm mostly seeing the same argument constantly brought up. It's not helpful.

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I appear to have been ninja'd as I believe the term goes, good post @Ahvz

 

 

In the FTL case it was pretty much mindless defense and yelling. There were a few people who kept telling everyone they're wrong :)

 

I'm not saying don't speak up but at seven pages I'm mostly seeing the same argument constantly brought up. It's not helpful.

 

Well are you suggesting that at seven pages the arguments against the system weren't equally redundant? Again, I've got no clue as I wasn't involved, I'm just suggesting that you may be bias due to the side of that argument you happened to be on. I absolutely agree, though, that just telling people not to criticize in general is pointless.

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"Forsooth, methinks you are no ordinary talking chicken!"

-Protagonist, Baldur's Gate

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I partly agree with you OP, it needs a lot of polish. Although, it's a little too early to say that they have to delay the release. The upcoming releases will give you a better idea in regard to that.

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I admit that I have been a bit surprised at the level of hostility certain posters have displayed in this thread. While I would never want to see someone withhold their opinion, I don't really get the vitriol.

 

I have noticed that some of the "angry responders" in this thread are replying angrily to others in other threads as well, so I guess this is just their "status quo" posture when they don't agree with somebody....

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"Now to find a home for my other staff."
My Project Eternity Interview with Adam Brennecke

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So I deleted my saves, started a new game without saving. I was finally able to get through some combats without any equipment disappearing. I made this mistake of using my fighter's crossbow to pull an enemy toward my party, and seemingly things bugged out when I tried to switch back to my axe, causing the fighter to get stuck in place. I took a risk and did a save and reload. Seemed okay at first, but eventually my cleric and wizard started losing gear.

 

So I started again. This time I opted to create a Chanter from the inn. The chanter got stuck in the inn, so I guess I won't be creating any characters again.

 

So it's still pretty rocky, but at least I'm slowly learning how to work around the game's many bugs. Will try again later today, I suppose.


"Now to find a home for my other staff."
My Project Eternity Interview with Adam Brennecke

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I made this mistake of using my fighter's crossbow to pull an enemy toward my party, and seemingly things bugged out when I tried to switch back to my axe, causing the fighter to get stuck in place.

 

This one is repeatable. Happened to me too.

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I made this mistake of using my fighter's crossbow to pull an enemy toward my party, and seemingly things bugged out when I tried to switch back to my axe, causing the fighter to get stuck in place.

 

This one is repeatable. Happened to me too.

 

Got it. So, no more switching weapons during combat. Maybe no more switching weapons period. :p


"Now to find a home for my other staff."
My Project Eternity Interview with Adam Brennecke

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Marceror's original post may have seemed a bit harsh for an early beta but I can not blame him in the slightest.  I agree with each point, that there is a large amount of work to be done and that makes me hope for a delayed release rather than a buggy game.  There are many people with far more knowledge of game design than my self who say it can be done in 4 months but the historical track record begs to differ.  Many people have posted about how these crowd-funded games really need to be near-perfect at launch as all excuses have been removed, and they are absolutely correct.  There are a mass of non-posting gamers out there who have been burned numerous times in the past by unplayable launches and are waiting and watching how this turns out.  They are professionals in their 30s and 40s who have played every crpg and pnp rpg in the universe and who don't have time or inclination to sift through known launch bugs. Treat them well and they will put sizable funds behind future projects and we get the games we really want.  Burn them again and it all goes away.  It is not hyperbole at all to say that the future of crowd-funded true crpgs is hanging on the success or failure of PoE, WL2, and a couple of others.  We all want to see this work.  Take your time and get it right or we all suffer.  That is why I payed extra to get in on the bb so I can put my money where my mouth is and help get it right.

 

That being said, for me personally, I'm waiting for the next build.  I have tried 7 different characters and have been so crushed by the legion of bugs that I just don't have the stamina to keep going.  I'm not going anywhere, I'm committed to try again at each build, but this first one has shaken my confidence for winter 2014.  

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@Marceror you can safely switch weapons, just not in mid-animation. Do it out of combat, or in combat by moving your character first, then switching.

 

It's not the only thing that makes characters unresponsive but it's a common one.

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I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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@Marceror you can safely switch weapons, just not in mid-animation. Do it out of combat, or in combat by moving your character first, then switching.

 

It's not the only thing that makes characters unresponsive but it's a common one.

Sounds like an important safety tip. Will keep that in mind!


"Now to find a home for my other staff."
My Project Eternity Interview with Adam Brennecke

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It appears I'm going to need to wait for the patch after all. Even without saving my game I'm still sometimes having my gear disappear. And if it's not that, I end up with a character that gets stuck for some reason.

 

I tried 5 more games today (up to 8 now), and got further in some than others, but not far enough to complete any quests before either a character got stuck or equipment disappeared.

 

Here's to hoping there will be a patch very soon!

 

 

EDIT - Oh, and looting has been a real problem. Most of the stuff that I loot never makes it to my inventory, and just vanishes.

 

Well, I do have a Divinity Original Sin sitting in my Steam library, with only around 2 hours clocked in thus far. Seems a more sensible destination for me while waiting for the critical bug patch.

Edited by Marceror

"Now to find a home for my other staff."
My Project Eternity Interview with Adam Brennecke

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I've only read the first couple of pages on this thread but I've gotta say, you guys are being a bit overly hard on Marceror.  I find myself agreeing with a lot of what he says, it sounds pretty reasonably constructive to me.  I'm not detecting any of this entitlement attitude you all keep mentioning either.  Maybe I've missed something in the few pages I haven't read, but why not just keep the conversations focused on opinions of the beta rather than character attacks?

 

For my part, I'm having a hard time playing the beta right now due to the incredible amount of bugs (perfectly understandable, I'm not complaining at all).  Maybe it is just my particular computer set up but sometimes it is all I can do to get a game loaded and not crash on a scene transition.  However, I have every confidence that the end product will be freakin' awesome, Obsidian ALWAYS delivers.

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They have two QA teams that can focus on quest bugs and stuff in other areas of the game - their internal QA and the QA provided by Paradox Interactive.

 

I think it's good that we are only getting to do this small area of the game. We are mostly for suggestions, UI, combat, performance, general bugs ... etc etc

Dunno, even Bioware which is backed up by their evil corporate overlords and multi million budgets doesn't have rpg where every quest works as intended. Even if its something as tiny as game giving you wrong flag for completing the quest

 

In case of companies with less huge QA team, there are quite a lot of quest bugs from what I've noticed

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I've only read the first couple of pages on this thread but I've gotta say, you guys are being a bit overly hard on Marceror.  I find myself agreeing with a lot of what he says, it sounds pretty reasonably constructive to me.  I'm not detecting any of this entitlement attitude you all keep mentioning either.  Maybe I've missed something in the few pages I haven't read, but why not just keep the conversations focused on opinions of the beta rather than character attacks?

 

For my part, I'm having a hard time playing the beta right now due to the incredible amount of bugs (perfectly understandable, I'm not complaining at all).  Maybe it is just my particular computer set up but sometimes it is all I can do to get a game loaded and not crash on a scene transition.  However, I have every confidence that the end product will be freakin' awesome, Obsidian ALWAYS delivers.

 

I have to add my agreement to this--Marceror has been, by my judgement, very neutral. He is simply calling it as he sees it.

 

I backed this game ages ago, but have only started to post with the beta release. While I remain hopeful the massive list of issues identified by players will be mostly addressed by Obsidian, in its current form, some overzealous defenders are acting like apologists for them. I don't mean to offend; take that as an observation from a set of fresh eyes, who have not been wrapped up in PoE for the past few months.

 

I've put in my hours, and right now, I'm content to shelve it, and yes, call it 'unplayable.' I am a patient person, and this beta has worn me thin. What enjoyment I have derived from the current build has been overall largely overshadowed by black screen zoning bugs, loads failing to load, disappearing items, vanishing quests, cluster**** combat, micromanagement hell, erratic zoom functionality, zero XP for everything...need I go on? I've rerolled countless characters, struggling through as far as I can until issue X rears its ugly head and I have to stop. On the bright side, I've tried a lot of classes.

 

I like to be objective. If something astounds me, I will sing it praises. If something is tiresome, I will express these criticisms fully--all in the hope that it will better this game. We're all on the same side here. 

 

To me, betas should be at a point where players can provide valuable feedback over how things feel or work. As it is, I can't do that very well, because so many fundamental things are broken that prevent me from progressing or experiencing something properly. For example, I can't give valuable feedback on skills and combat difficulty if all my equipment disappears, or my spells don't activate. Instead, I'm stuck telling you that those barriers were present.

 

I call this a poor showing--your opinion may differ. I look forward to patches, and a more playable baseline.

Edited by cilantroll
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Would everyone be relieved if Obsidian announced a delay of a few months for release?

 

Judging from the forums and my repeated attempts to play through the beta, the sheer volume of small bugs, big bugs, gamebreaking bugs, visual issues, UI issues, combat issues, balance issues, attribute issues, class issues and overall design issues with the game is quite disconcerting if they plan on releasing the game this year.

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Would everyone be relieved if Obsidian announced a delay of a few months for release?

 

Judging from the forums and my repeated attempts to play through the beta, the sheer volume of small bugs, big bugs, gamebreaking bugs, visual issues, UI issues, combat issues, balance issues, attribute issues, class issues and overall design issues with the game is quite disconcerting if they plan on releasing the game this year.

 

Yes, please! Like any Kickstarted game--I support the best product. Timely is nice within reason, but quality is better. I don't think there is any shame in admitting there may be bigger problems than anticipated. It'll cause some grumbling, of course--but I imagine it'll be nothing to the uproar of a release that feels not ready, but pushed out. There is no big publisher breathing down your necks, OE!

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Would everyone be relieved if Obsidian announced a delay of a few months for release?

 

Judging from the forums and my repeated attempts to play through the beta, the sheer volume of small bugs, big bugs, gamebreaking bugs, visual issues, UI issues, combat issues, balance issues, attribute issues, class issues and overall design issues with the game is quite disconcerting if they plan on releasing the game this year.

 

Doesn't much matter to me when the game comes out, but I think it's a bit premature to be calling for a delay. That entirely depends on how quickly they can knock out these bugs.

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Would everyone be relieved if Obsidian announced a delay of a few months for release?

 

Judging from the forums and my repeated attempts to play through the beta, the sheer volume of small bugs, big bugs, gamebreaking bugs, visual issues, UI issues, combat issues, balance issues, attribute issues, class issues and overall design issues with the game is quite disconcerting if they plan on releasing the game this year.

 

Doesn't much matter to me when the game comes out, but I think it's a bit premature to be calling for a delay. That entirely depends on how quickly they can knock out these bugs.

 

 

Yeah exactly the beta is out for 2 days now.

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