cilantroll

To some of the opinions that the only good track that came out Jeremy Soule's IWD soundtrack is Kuldahar's Theme...NO! Well...there's no accounting for taste, but maybe I can demonstrate why I think IWD had one of the best IE soundtracks I found the themes cohesive, and the deep, crafted soundscapes were bound together by a sense of adventure, and vast, chilly, open spaces. Here's diverse selection of highlights; not all are beautiful, but they do, IMO, succeed at crafting the perfect presence and atmosphere in a very short amount of time. Watch on Youtube's page so you can select the track's position in the video's description: 3 Easthaven in Peace 4 Hrothgar's Home 5 Temple of Tempus (9 Kuldahar Theme) 10 Arundel's Home 14 Kresselack's Lair 18 The Dragon's Eye 21 Severed Hand Interior 22 The Mage Tower 28 Drow & Orog Gate 33 Lower Dorn's Deep 38 Belhifet's Doom (battle) 42 Bonus Track 01 44 Bonus Track 03 (most epic credits ever?) 45 Bonus Track 04 51 Bonus Track 10

I would have preferred this as I preferred combat in Temple of Elemental Evil to Infinity engine games but I think that ship has sailed a long time ago. ToEE combat is the best turn based rpg combat ever I shared this opinion for the longest time, until I played D:OS. Pillars of Divinity?...

Yes, please! Like any Kickstarted game--I support the best product. Timely is nice within reason, but quality is better. I don't think there is any shame in admitting there may be bigger problems than anticipated. It'll cause some grumbling, of course--but I imagine it'll be nothing to the uproar of a release that feels not ready, but pushed out. There is no big publisher breathing down your necks, OE!

I have to add my agreement to this--Marceror has been, by my judgement, very neutral. He is simply calling it as he sees it. I backed this game ages ago, but have only started to post with the beta release. While I remain hopeful the massive list of issues identified by players will be mostly addressed by Obsidian, in its current form, some overzealous defenders are acting like apologists for them. I don't mean to offend; take that as an observation from a set of fresh eyes, who have not been wrapped up in PoE for the past few months. I've put in my hours, and right now, I'm content to shelve it, and yes, call it 'unplayable.' I am a patient person, and this beta has worn me thin. What enjoyment I have derived from the current build has been overall largely overshadowed by black screen zoning bugs, loads failing to load, disappearing items, vanishing quests, cluster**** combat, micromanagement hell, erratic zoom functionality, zero XP for everything...need I go on? I've rerolled countless characters, struggling through as far as I can until issue X rears its ugly head and I have to stop. On the bright side, I've tried a lot of classes. I like to be objective. If something astounds me, I will sing it praises. If something is tiresome, I will express these criticisms fully--all in the hope that it will better this game. We're all on the same side here. To me, betas should be at a point where players can provide valuable feedback over how things feel or work. As it is, I can't do that very well, because so many fundamental things are broken that prevent me from progressing or experiencing something properly. For example, I can't give valuable feedback on skills and combat difficulty if all my equipment disappears, or my spells don't activate. Instead, I'm stuck telling you that those barriers were present. I call this a poor showing--your opinion may differ. I look forward to patches, and a more playable baseline.

I loved Soule's work for IWD--it had great depth, felt chilly, vast, epic, and tranquil when it needed to be (love the theme in the tree town)--but not Inon Zur's for IWD 2. Hoenig's killed it with BG I and II, and Mark Morgan made magic with PS: T; I'm already pumped they got him back for TToN!! The tracks he's already composed for that released for the Kickstarter sound like unreleased material from the original Torment, capturing that same mood effortlessly. PoE's music...after being clued in by Namutree the title theme is better later on (it is), I like it a little better. But it doesn't change that I feel the other music in-game (especially battle and the tavern) are lacklustre, IMO. When I think of IE game music, there are a number of tracks I can recall and hum (even town themes--Friendly Arm, Beregost). Here, it is absolutely forgettable.

But I'd have been blissfully ignorant, buy the game at release, and then go WOW

Ah okay--but if it's talking to an NPC, it would take that character's stats, right? Then it's just weird, especially if some strings are attribute-locked. I can see some people designating a character or 2 as the main talkers, so it'd be one more small micromanaging task to ensure you select a certain character to interact with NPCs, rather than just whoever's closest 'ruining' a one-time conversation (say, with a boss).

I feel that the poe title music gets really epic after a little while. Did you listen to the whole thing? I think that Obsidian should make the title song start a little further in. Then it would sound epic upon starting the game. Thanks, I will have to stick around longer in the menu to check it out!

Another example... Ignoring the AWFUL clustering, you can barely many of the characters are on the grass. And yes, I agree--I don't understand the design rationale of the dots. Yet, there is no equivalent, vertical action bar by the portrait.

After some solid hours into the beta, here are my first impressions. Emphasis on my (your opinions may differ). There's a lot more criticism, but there are months still. I'm hopefully optimistic! The Great + My nostalgia satisfaction is going through the roof--for a lot of it PoE does feel like BG. Most of my positives surround this theme. + Gorgeous environments--vibrant, beautiful, a joy to explore. + The classes I've tried feel pretty different; I like the different skills and effects Obsidian's come up with outside of D&D. + Dialogue is great, and I love the little bits of greyer text describing a character's actions or behaviours--it feels like a rich novel. Nice to see stat-locked choices. + I enjoy the simplified inventory system. Once all the items have their own images, it should be easy to manage. My Disappointments - Battle is currently messy, buggy, impossible to track in a big overlapping crowd, not terribly fun, and needs major adjustment. I feel strongly about this, and have posted many thoughts in various combat-related topics. - Missing XP everywhere. Just 0 at every turn...including (controversially) battle. For most (every?) quest in the beta, 0. Yikes. - It's really too bad only the water is a dynamic part of the environment. It's so weird all the trees and grass are dead and stiff against this. - I'm a little underwhelmed by the music. IMO, the main theme is far from memorable (unlike each IE title), and other tracks I've heard suffer the same problem and are quite low key. - Character/enemy models leave a lot to be desired. They're quite dull, plastic-like, oddly animated, and character heads are all too large. Classical proportions (in figure drawing and 'ideal' models in real life) have women at approx. 7 heads tall, and men 7-8 heads tall (humans, of course). If you're not going for a semblance of realism, then the art style needs to be exaggerated further, but is currently a sort of...not-quite cartoony...softish realistic. - No matter how I rearrange the formation, the characters fall into this blob that only sort of resembles it, but straight lines are fine. - Edge scrolling is so slooooooooow. - Just a number of unintuitive usability things. Like there's no button to close the Grimoire? And when you click out, the inventory snaps shut too? I keep hitting 'Enchant' like it's 'Close.' Poor feedback during battle. Tooltip collages. Character circles (NPCs should be blue like IE). Etc. - I'll just lose the ability to zoom, randomly; when I try to then, it only moves effects like shadows, spell auras, shimmers, etc. - I don't understand who runs up to loot something or talk to an NPC. With the whole party selected, it's not always the leftmost, 'first' portrait. - Dump stats...especially the '% Interrupt' one. That one doesn't feel impactful at all (if it is even happening).

The more I read the many excellent combat suggestions by people here, and the more I spend playing the combat as it is...well...until (unless) the fighting changes a fair bit, I am definitely starting to feel the same way. I have hope we'll be pleasantly surprised--I really want to believe it. But I get the sentiment that if I hadn't backed the project already, this taste of battle as is would've made me wait and see. Sad, but true... On the flip side, I am so pleased Torment will be going with turn-based! Inherently, it just can't be chaotic and unresponsive. Honestly, I've only ever been so-so with turn-based combat--but when done right, it's an absolute blast! Recently, D: OS is probably the most fun I've ever had with a turn-based cRPG system (I never thought 'fast-paced' could apply to turn-based until then), and I can only hope TToN can be similarly rewarding.

I really don't understand this POV. Just because most ('all?') cRPGs give out XP for kills doesn't mean you're grinding. In BG, I was certainly not map travelling everywhere or trying to sleep continuously in the wilderness for a random ambush just to get a middling amount of XP. There wasn't many places that respawned enemies, anyway...and even if there were, I wouldn't have. I hear these arguments that only boss fights mattered in BG, but I couldn't disagree more. Yes, normal things I fought in the wilderness and exploring to get to bosses DID level me up--and ensured I was within a reasonable level to deal with these bosses. I'm sure there were a few times I was under or over-levelled for a boss encounter here and there, depending if I stuck to the main plot more, or explored side areas before going back to the story. But I'd wager if I just ran from every hostile encounter and bee-lined it to bosses and main quests (as if I were doing a BG speed run), bosses would be very difficult indeed, because I would be far too weak without having killed the unimportant enemies along the way. It never felt grindy to me, but natural. I posted further detailed thoughts below (lost to discussion because it was invisible so long before mod approval as a new poster): http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/67060-no-experience-from-combat/?p=1488567

As a fresh set of eyes in this community... Having put in a number of hours into the beta now, I'll count myself in the camp that wants XP to be rewarded from battle. Reading several pages of this thread, I don't get all the knee-jerk reactions putting down this opinion! It's feedback, and we all reserve the right to express it... Anyway--I want combat XP. That doesn't make me an MMO-addict; don't dismiss me outright and sneer something like, "Go back to Diablo." Actually, I think the burden of 'proof' or 'justification' in this case rests with the other side, because combat XP is pretty much an assumed or standard part in "all" CRPGs. I don't understand the argument that people will automatically grind if XP is given for fights. I did no such thing in the BG series at all. Rather, I enjoyed the freedom to explore the surrounding wilderness, run into bandits, and clear out a non-essential dungeon. I'd get some loot, and feel satisfied my party maybe levelled up once, or is close to; it's 'training,' getting wiser the more you experience in the world. And you know, when I felt it was time, I'd go back and advance the main plot. Right now in PoE--ignoring that combat is very buggy right now--I don't think I'd get that same enjoyment doing side quests, and running into a massive pack of wolves or whatever. If the stick are brutal encounters, where's the carrot? I also don't understand the argument that if given combat XP, people might go slaughter everyone. Whether I'm an average player or not--I don't, and never did in BG. I like to be immersed, and roleplay--I wouldn't go wipe out a town, so my party didn't. And even for players that might enjoy that--townsfolk only gave 5 or 10 XP anyway, and why risk breaking quests, and creating weird ghost towns? Giving XP for kills is not dumb, and only suitable for those with ADHD. It fosters a sense of progression with characters, and reward. Obsidian has gone to the trouble of designing all these weapons, skills, spells, different enemies, and how they all interact--why then take away the satisfaction of victory, of managing 'correctly' what we have available to us to engineer victory from slim odds? It reduces excitement and anticipation, and at least to me, would make combat a chore. The BG series had great and challenging boss fights--the dragons, Jon Irenicus, the very last battle with Melissan--and afterwards (save the last where you finish the game), you came away breathless. The party was in terrible shape--but you survived! And look at the great loot--and the big chunk of experience! I don't want similar, epic experiences upcoming in PoE to fall flat, in any way, and I say that as a fan and supporter.

Thanks for that kind welcome! I'd edit my post, but I'm not sure I could until I have the 5 posts thing....so let's try that again. http://desktoppub.about.com/od/glossary/g/Ligature.htm

Combat is chaos. When there's a cluster of enemies, I can't keep track of all the little health dots all over the place, and definitely not the recovery bars of characters before their next attack/skill/spell in those little, floating, overlapping boxes. How about adding the recovery bar beside our character portraits, another vertical bar that fills up beside the green? At a glance, I think that'd help a ton in terms of management, and which characters I should give orders to. And I'd also like to add my voice to the camp that's expressing disappointment with the no XP thing. Good on paper, but a real let down for me now. Even a little would contribute to a sense of progression that keeps things interesting. Instead, battles now seem like a chore--why bother to design all these nifty abilities, skills, and weapons that can together make fights tense and exciting, but then make players feel like they'd rather just avoid battles altogether? To me, that's a disconnect. Planescape: Torment could have done away with fight XP, because it was far from the focus of the game, and there really wasn't a lot of places it had to happen. But playing this, the encounters in the forest made me feel like I was starting BG again (a GOOD thing), terrified of woodland creatures (bears in BG, beetles here) utterly destroying Imoen and my character. When I managed to kill one--YESSS, like 600 xp or something, pretty significant so early on. It felt like an accomplishment, and it felt good! Later, this amount was barely anything to a 6 member party, and it was far easier--but the contrast there creates that rewarding sense of progression.

First off, thank you Obsidian for even allowing the option to enable/disable ligatures in game (they are found in Graphic options, one of the check boxes). It shows a commitment to detailing, even if it would probably be considered of negligible importance to most... I would hazard a guess that most aren't familiar with ligatures--it's a detailing thing in the world of graphic design and typography. Here is a very succinct summary. They basically improve readability, so certain combinations of letters don't look smushed or interfere with each other--these are typically problems with 'fl,' 'ffl,' 'fi,' and 'ffi,' where l's are too close to f's, and dots above i's mush into overarching letters like f. If you're going to allow the option, Obsidian, I would like to see them done correctly! It's not far off--just one thing has to be removed: stylistic or discretionary ligatures, which are for adornment only, and does not improve readability. In fact, many would consider them distractions, because they draw undue attention to themselves. In most settings, good typography is not heralded by fanfare, but should ideally go unnoticed; that means things are simply comfortable, easy to read, well-spaced, sized, etc. In typesetting software, ligatures are pretty much assumed if the font has the option, but discretionary ones are off by default. There is very little reason anywhere to ever connect letters like 'st' or 'ct,' especially in any text outside of decorative headlines. I have for sure seen the st ligature in the game, but I'm not sure about the ct (it would appear in such words such as victory, tincture, actor, etc). Again, I must acknowledge that in the face of many, far more pressing bugs, glitches, UI inconsistencies, etc, this detail is so, so minor. But hey, they've provided the option, so I consider it fair criticism!

This is a great suggestion. In other games, I've seen exactly this above or below a character portrait, as well as a little bar showing the progress of the skill/action/spell. I've seen this bar as a thicker border around the skill icon (starts filling from top left corner, around clockwise), or just as a straight bar, left to right. When the action completes, the bar is full, and the icon disappears. If it's a continuous action like auto-attacking, there is no 'progress' bar in place; players know they can safely give another order to this character, as the only thing being interrupted is a normal attack.