The final marketing drive - looking for a mainstream audience? Target the MOBA crowd

[Ink Blot]

If you put PoE in easy settings I am quite sure that it will not be too much challenge to anybody who has played DA:O through and like it so much that they can be called as fans.

 

And I don't think that anybody that played DA:O on PC and like it will say that isometric viewpoint is no-no and I think most of them would get over prerendered backgrounds (or more specifically over the fact that you can't turn the camera).

 

If PoE story is as compelling as I hope it will be, then I would say that most fans of DA:O will also like PoE. Biggest problem is to get those fans try it in first place. 

 

Have to agree with this. Personally, I don't understand why there seems to be such disdain for DA:O here. I love the game and have played through it several times. Does it have its flaws? Most assuredly, and I'm well aware of them. I still think it's a great game. PoE is likely going to be more my cup of tea though, since my favorite games of all time are the IE games. Still, I have to think there's a significant portion of the DA:O fan base that would enjoy PoE as well.

 

But as I said before, I don't see why there should be a focus on a specific group of gamers for marketing. Market to the game playing public at large. Forget trying to snare a specific audience that focuses on a different style/genre of game. Cast a wide net, catch more fish IMO.

[Doppelschwert]

Half of the guys I'm playing DOTA2 with are people that would never play PoE. They just want to thrill of being better than another human being, e.g. they are mostly in it for the competition and have a low frustration tolerance. Which, given the toxic atmosphere in these games, is a common thing.

 

Personally, I find the MOBA genre to be totally overhyped. The only reason I'm sticking with it is that it is the least common denominator with the guys I went to school with so that we can spend some time together playing games while living apart. Any long term game with progression won't work because someone will then just go ahead and play alone until the others can't keep up. MOBAs also lack the individualism you can have with a party based single player game and are overcrowded with unsocial people because it's free. In a way, some are just as bad as the people of the bioboards.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Doppelschwert

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

 

So to conclude your friends aren't near good enough, to be able to make those claims. They are simply on a level where mechanical skill alone can win you the game.

 

You do seem to be a great LoL player. Cool!

 

However, since they play these games hours upon hours, day after day, year in and year out, I do think their claims are valid enough. Not only the top 100 players of a game should be able to make claims about the game and its difficulty, don't you agree?

[Sarex]

You do seem to be a great LoL player. Cool!

 

However, since they play these games hours upon hours, day after day, year in and year out, I do think their claims are valid enough. Not only the top 100 players of a game should be able to make claims about the game and its difficulty, don't you agree?

 

Yes I do agree, but their claims are for their level of play, which as I already said is not representative of the complexity of LoL, just as a low tier SC2 player can't represent that games true level of complexity. I hope you get what I am trying to say, I am really not trying to be arrogant even if I do come of as such in these posts. If either game were that easy then most players would be a pro not just a few hundred players out of how many tens of millions players(in the case of LoL).

[Failion]

 

You do seem to be a great LoL player. Cool!

 

However, since they play these games hours upon hours, day after day, year in and year out, I do think their claims are valid enough. Not only the top 100 players of a game should be able to make claims about the game and its difficulty, don't you agree?

 

Yes I do agree, but their claims are for their level of play, which as I already said is not representative of the complexity of LoL, just as a low tier SC2 player can't represent that games true level of complexity. I hope you get what I am trying to say, I am really not trying to be arrogant even if I do come of as such in these posts. If either game were that easy then most players would be a pro not just a few hundred players out of how many tens of millions players(in the case of LoL).

 

Nah those pro plays all duo que. Rank in LoL is mostly based on chance and people duoing with their friends or exploiting a op champ. While in RTS games like FPS games there is no random element and the best players are always the best.

 

This also why MOBA games have such a huge playerbase because losers can be winner while in other competitive online games that is not the case.

[Freshock]

I don't think MOBA gamers are the right kind for the game personally, a big part of it being that PoE is a singleplayer game - so who are the MOBA players going to rage at? Jokes aside - I think they are more used to just control a single character instead of a party (unless they would go hard mode and play only the main hero through the game) and when the competition aspect of the game isn't there - I don't think they would be that interested. My guess is that just regular RPG lovers are the right audience, there's still alot of singleplayer gamers out there that are looking for a game like Pillars of Eternity I'm sure.

[Bryy]

I mean, MOBAs aren't really rpgs

MOBAs are more RPG than most AAA RPGs.

[Pray]

If you want to target the MOBA audience, target the Support Players and the Audience - their brains are more attuned to this sort of game.

[Bryy]

Okay.

 

Can we all stop talking about players like like have some sort of mental defect for playing other types of games?

 

I mean, that's not that tough, right?

[anameforobsidian]

It's worth point out the similarities in heritage.  Bioware was originally making an RTS when it made the Infinity engine, but instead turned it to a D&D campaign by focusing on just a few characters.  Mobas started by taking an RTS engine, and modding it so that it focused on few characters.  Hell, D&D itself started by scaling a strategy game down to a few roles.

 

Also, many of the mechanics are shared between Mobas and the IE games.  I don't think it's too far fetched.

[Lephys]

MOBAs feature such a hyper-active level of tactical play that I'm not certain there isn't just as much of a disconnect between those games and this one as there is a similarity in the first place.

 

I'm not saying "No one who plays MOBAs will like PoE." I just don't think the MOBA crowd is somehow THE go-to demographic for PoE enthusiasm.

 

Honestly, I think PoE just needs to be well-advertised for what it is, and people will decide if they like it or not. Part of the problem with the current gaming populous is how reliant a lot of them are on being told which games they will like because of which games they like. So now, whenever something's 3% different from what they're used to, or what they expect, they just freak out. "TURN-based?! OMG... I'm not even going to try that!"

 

... "ICE cream?! Ewwww! You say it's tasty, but, I dunno... it looks funny!"

 

*Shrug*. I think the purpose of marketing is actually just to make sure all the people who happen to like what your product entails don't fail to know about it, or to know it well enough to actually come to the realization that they feel it's worth the purchase. Not to just take a product, and go out into the world, find people who are potential profit-contributers, and convince them they want your product.

 

I get that you want a good image and all, and you don't want to waste time on demographics that just naturally don't coincide with your product's goal, etc. But... the focus has just shifted ridiculously toward "Make things, then GET people to want them." Instead of just making things people want, and making sure as many people as possible who want those things, know about them.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Lephys

[Volourn]

"Dragon Age crowd is basically the casuals of rpg gaming. Why would they be interested in a game that lacks all of the important AAA game functions like fully voiced characters, cinematics, 3D world and so on?"

 

The DA crowd *is* the PE crowd. Where do you think a lot of Obsidian fanboys come from? From BIo's game. It's why obsidian has made sequels to BIO games. It's also why they are pimping this game based on its connection to BIO games.

 

Also,  a lot of the Obsidian fanbase is just a subset of the BIO fanbase anyways. There's a HUGE overlap.

\

DA is far from 'casual'. It's certainly no more casual than the IE games which this game is based on.

 

That said, I certainly don't hope they make the game easier ebcause some people find it tough. That's what 'easy' is for.

 

I've been playing DnD and other RPgs for 30 years including all the so called 'hardcore' games. I'm also part of the 'DA crowd'. I am definitely no casual player. I also don't care  overly much about 'romance' (though I believe it adds to role-playing). And, I also spent $250 on PE.

 

Your. logic. is. dumb. and. casual. and. ignorant.

[Bryy]

What about the Dragon Age series is casual?

[Grand_Commander13]

Apparently it's too easy. Except I don't remember Baldur's Gate or Baldur's Gate 2 being any harder. Maybe it's the fact that Dragon Age doesn't use a system where your mage is the only really useful member of the party? Or maybe they're down on regenerating health and mana, because why let the player get their health and spells back after every fight when real hardcore games let you rest to get your... Wait...

[Volourn]

Yeah, DA is just as challenging as BG or BG2.  Thoguh, I find most games not super hard anyways. *shrug* But, hard doesn't = non csual anyways. Plenty of so called old skool 'hardcore' games were really really easy. *shrug*

[Bryy]

I mean, I understand calling DA2 "dumbed down", but it's not like that game strayed so far from traditional RPG roots. 

[Volourn]

I would argue (outside of certain specific features like the lame party wipe nonsense) that it is 'smartened up'. ie. Warriors can do more than lamely swing their weapon once or twice per round. L0L

Edited August 16, 2014 by Volourn

[Enigmatick]

Funnily enough I would think the easiest game to sell to a MOBA player would be a RTS. Besides people who enjoy RPGs, the people most likely to get into PoE would probably be those who play slower paced RTS or adventure games I think.

 

If you could convince people the game will have truly divergent choices, it should be somewhat easy to sell this game to younger people who like the new Telltale adventure games.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Enigmatick

[BrokenMask]

 

I mean, MOBAs aren't really rpgs

MOBAs are more RPG than most AAA RPGs.

 

Mechanics wise? Since plot and writing wise, nope.

 

Besides, MOBAs are far more action rpg than PoE is. Sure there are tactics in both, and some tactics will probably be similar, but again, different audiences and different core hooks.

 

I know a lot of moba player and sure SOME of them would like PoE, but all of them also happened to be WoW player(either currently or ex) so does that mean Paradox would be smart to target WoW player audience?...

[Infinitron]

 

It's worth point out the similarities in heritage. Bioware was originally making an RTS when it made the Infinity engine, but instead turned it to a D&D campaign by focusing on just a few characters. Mobas started by taking an RTS engine, and modding it so that it focused on few characters. Hell, D&D itself started by scaling a strategy game down to a few roles.

 

Also, many of the mechanics are shared between Mobas and the IE games. I don't think it's too far fetched.

Buahahaha. Lol.

 

 

What's so funny? What he said is true. And what's with the "like" from Obsidian developer Roby Atedero for this worthless, content-free post? I am disappoint.

[Maviarab]

"Dragon Age crowd is basically the casuals of rpg gaming. Why would they be interested in a game that lacks all of the important AAA game functions like fully voiced characters, cinematics, 3D world and so on?"

 

The DA crowd *is* the PE crowd. Where do you think a lot of Obsidian fanboys come from? From BIo's game. It's why obsidian has made sequels to BIO games. It's also why they are pimping this game based on its connection to BIO games.

 

Also,  a lot of the Obsidian fanbase is just a subset of the BIO fanbase anyways. There's a HUGE overlap.

\

DA is far from 'casual'. It's certainly no more casual than the IE games which this game is based on.

 

That said, I certainly don't hope they make the game easier ebcause some people find it tough. That's what 'easy' is for.

 

I've been playing DnD and other RPgs for 30 years including all the so called 'hardcore' games. I'm also part of the 'DA crowd'. I am definitely no casual player. I also don't care  overly much about 'romance' (though I believe it adds to role-playing). And, I also spent $250 on PE.

 

Your. logic. is. dumb. and. casual. and. ignorant.

 

This exactly.  Whoever said the DA crowd is causal is showing their ignorance.  DA2 maybe..yes...even maybe Inquisition.  Both are designed for the console.  Origins was designed a single player RPG for the PC...the 'spiritual successor to BG' (in their words, whether successful or not in that claim is debatable).  The Bioware fan base is exactly the market for this game.  Remember, the market for this game is not the console players, not the thousands of rabid under 20 year-olds....it is for us guys in their 30's and 40's....who grew up with RPG's....not moba players, not FPS players, but old school RPG players.  The very same people who supported the gaming industry in the first place and made it what it is.

 

Maybe a litle hyperbole, and sterotyped, but the 'newer' generation of gamer, this game is not for.  Target the fanbase that appreciated storytelling, appreciates an epic hundreds of hours classic, will happily sit down and play for hours on end, absorbing the lore.  That 'is' a niche market, why do you think this game was funded through Kickstarter?  Because major publishers do not believe this kind of game can be a financial success anymore, us older gamers are now dinasaurs to the throw-away world of kids with attention spans no longer than a quick 5 minute PvP battle.  The amount Obsidian raised is proof that as a niche market, we still have a large say in the industry.

[Sarex]

What's so funny? What he said is true. And what's with the "like" from Obsidian developer Roby Atedero for this worthless, content-free post? I am disappoint.

 

They are all experts, who have never played a moba in their life. They are being hipster and hate the popular things.

[NWN_babaYaga]

You cant win a new specific audience with a game like this... it already has an audience. But i agree that talking about it on steam or gog forums might help but in the end it´s a niche game. All of infinity games are niche today just because of their style. Most of the younger people go with the present time only and thats what they care about. It´s some sort of group dynamic and that hasnt changed that much. Bioware is doing POP games, EA loves POP stuff because it´s average or casual or whatever you want to call that and it makes a lot of money. Nothing new to me.

 

Halflife for example was a niche game that was so unique that it started a new mainstream trend of games. And it was great, one of the best FPS games ever created. So it´s better to stay in the niche and be real as to be mainstream and be just a trend that comes and goes.

Edited August 16, 2014 by NWN_babaYaga

[BrokenMask]

 

They are all experts, who have never played a moba in their life. They are being hipster and hate the popular things.

 

I assume you DO have played mobas since you are saying that In which case you should know that moba players don't automatically overlap with CRPG fans.

 

 

 

 

It's worth point out the similarities in heritage. Bioware was originally making an RTS when it made the Infinity engine, but instead turned it to a D&D campaign by focusing on just a few characters. Mobas started by taking an RTS engine, and modding it so that it focused on few characters. Hell, D&D itself started by scaling a strategy game down to a few roles.

 

Also, many of the mechanics are shared between Mobas and the IE games. I don't think it's too far fetched.

Buahahaha. Lol.

 

 

What's so funny? What he said is true. And what's with the "like" from Obsidian developer Roby Atedero for this worthless, content-free post? I am disappoint.

 

 

Well, post he replied to DID contain faulty logic. So apparently Bioware was designing RTS and not CRPG before they made Baldur's Gate(I can't confirm whether thats true or not) and since DOTA was RTS mod, that somehow means CRPG and MOBA fanbases overlap?

 

I do agree though that his reply was pretty pointless. I mean, there is no really point with "lol, you are wrong" posts <_< Better to just explain why they are incorrect rather than be troll-y about it.

Edited August 16, 2014 by BrokenMask

[Karkarov]

I will just throw it out there one more time in a vain hope of getting through.

 

I am about as "hard core" an RPG fan as you can get.  I like console RPG's like Final Fantasy, I like dungeon crawlers like Legend of Grimrock, I played and own all the Infinity Engine games, I am a huge fan of Mass Effect, I nerd out and actually take vacation time from work when new Elder Scrolls games release, I was enjoying Larian games before it was cool to do so, I have complete let's plays posted of the Souls games From Software makes / even host PVP tournaments in one of them, I will even play Diablo 3 here and there, and I will be buying Dragon Age Inquisition and Witcher 3 on day one.  Hell I even love MMO's and play all of them that come out and are even worth talking about, after all we used to call them MMORPG's.

 

Moba's?

 

You would have to pay me money to make me play one of those crap ass games, and please bear in mind that comes from someone who has in fact played them.  They are so totally departed from an RPG it isn't even funny.  There is no story, there is no lore, there is no over arching reason I play character Y instead of character X.  The tactics are all about order of ability choices, item buys, micro managing, and twitch gameplay.  Those are only tactics in the minds of Moba players and "BRTS" (Blizzard Real Time Strategy) players cause god knows most of them wouldn't touch Sim City or Civilization with a 50 foot pole.

 

Dota has more in common with Call of Duty than it does Pillars of Eternity.  The end.