Update #76: Music in Pillars of Eternity

[Starwars]

I thought this piece was fantastic for its purpose. I hope a lot of the music in the game will be more like this, subtle and unobtrusive. I can imagine how beautiful this will sound if coupled with a good soundscape for the town. I don't want to say anything is perfect but this really hit the spot for me in terms of its direction.

 

I'm replaying Baldur's Gate at the moment and while the music in itself is very nice, the sheer amount of times you hear certain themes is just... not good. It becomes annoying. And a lot of places in the game would've worked much better with something that draws less attention. Other areas work great, like when you enter Baldur's Gate for the first time during daytime and that epic music is playing.

 

Can't wait to hear more! It'd be great to see a video with both sound effects and music sometime in the future.

[JFSOCC]

First of all... Heartbleed sounds like a damage-over-time malware.

 

Hello awesome backers.

T_T... Why did you greet only the awesome backers? *sniffle*...

 

, okay, okay, jesting: complete.

 

 

I really appreciate the breakdown of your process, Justin! I mean, I'm very, very far from an expert (very) or anything, but I at least understood your process in terms of approach and whatnot. It's pretty cool to read about, ^_^.

 

Unfortunately, I can't listen to the track at the moment, but I will definitely do so ASAP, and will be sure to come back and complain provide feedback on it, .

 

You thought the jesting was actually complete? MUAHAHAHA!

 

Lastly, your mention of "listener fatigue" makes me think of FTL. I can't speak for everyone, but to me the music in that game seems to have staved off listener fatigue a great deal (I really had to stop and think about it when someone brought up that the music "never" really gets annoying, which just goes to show how unannoying I find it). That's also really, really important for that game, though, because of its Roguelike nature (not only are you subject to some of the same music for durations of a single playthrough, but the game is designed specifically to be played through a lot of times.)

 

Anywho, I know you're probably really far along with stuff at this point, so it's not going to help with any foundation or anything. But, if you're ever having a problem with listener fatigue with a given track, you might want to listen to some FTL music for inspiration? *shrug*. It could be helpful. Or maybe not. Who knows... I'm just a Punsmith. I'm off to ham things... with my hammer.

 

I stopped at cleared areas in FTL so I could keep listening to the music. Yes, very little listener fatigue. I think the key to that is how melodious the music is, after a while, you learn it.

 

I am a big fan of melodious music, and I hope to hear some of that in the future, but as others have aptly said, the piece we've gotten in this preview is meant as background music. As such it's good (but not great, sorry)

 

I'm resisting the temptation to let you listen to something I like. First off, because most threads you've replied in are overloaded with them, secondly, you'll have to make your own choices. Lastly I probably already did in one of the other threads...

 

And as I type that, hmmm, temptation oh well, one very short one then, see it as inspiration

 

[Jajo]

The thing that is the most jarring for me most of all is that the piece to me, gives me absolutely no 'vision' of Dyrford itself. Perhaps this is not the 'main' Dyrford piece.

 

I don't know much about the lore and the story so I have no idea of what the 'vision' of Dyrford is supposed to be, nor would I dare to even presume. I'm not implying, that you are presumptuous - I know that you know a whole lot more about this game than I do, but deriving the whole vision of the settlement from a still image of environment looks really ballsy to me.

Of course this music wouldn't fit the bill, if there was a town fair going on (banal example, I know), but I don't see how a half ruined settlement could not offer a stage that would fit this piece.

[Headnoob]

I can't help but feel you were listening to Dvorak when you came up with this, at least that's part of the vibe i'm getting from it.

 

Sounds absolutely fantastic.

[IndiraLightfoot]

JFSOCC: What a wonderful track, and you have really picked something that fits the setting we get to see in the images as well (Dyrwood). Almost, some somber Don Quixote and Sancho Panza theme.

 

Heh, and that cave in the video with all the bones in front of it: It looks like a certain bloody bunny scene from Monty Python's Holy Grail.

[Merlkir]

IR Heartbleed, am I the only one who can't actually change his password? I'm constantly getting an "incorrect password" error. :/

[Zoma]

As much as I want to say something nice about the music... I'm just not feeling anything for it. It feels bland. It needs a more distinct melody.

[anameforobsidian]

Awesome! :D

 

Btw, try playing these 3 at the same time for a sample conceptual ambience (or mix and match). Don't need to listen to the Rain or Nature for all those hours of course.

 

Dyrford Theme

 

Rain/Watery Sound

 

Nature/Bird Sound

 

I get the feeling that the Dyrford is a slow place. A kind of "soft" and calm area where not much is really going on, and the pictures also portray ruins and that in itself portrays a form of sadness, or abandonment. Someone else mentioned "desolation" and I agree there too. Like that granary (is that a granary?), the building that has no roof, why wasn't it repaired? Is it an area of some unrest or... are people simply poor or heavily taxed here?

 

The sound style does remind me of Arcanum somehow though...

 

Arcanum Wilderness Theme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajap5zmDog8&list=PL4C09A3D352D273F1

Thanks for pointing that out.  It sounds very different in that context.

[samm]

Merlkir: Changing the password worked fine for me. Maybe some problem with unexpected characters? Web devs seem to often use regular expressions to check password validity and forget to include Umlauts, space, or other such things, so that might cause the error.

Or maybe you forgot to type in your old password as well?

 

 

and there weren't no drop-off for iwd2... at least as far as music is concerned. 

Completely disagree. There was nothing subtle (only attempts to sound so) about Zur's tracks, everything was *in your face* and I really thought it was one of the worst parts of IWD2. Otoh, I found the game tedious all in all, so its music fits in that regard...

[Labadal]

Been playing Baldur's Gate II all day today, and I get what Justin means about the looping music. I do really like the BGII music, no doubt about it. And I even listen to the soundtrack every now and then, but in the game, when you spend lots of time in quest hubs, I just shut it out of my mind after a few minutes.

[Forlorn Hope]

I thought this piece was fantastic for its purpose. I hope a lot of the music in the game will be more like this, subtle and unobtrusive. I can imagine how beautiful this will sound if coupled with a good soundscape for the town. I don't want to say anything is perfect but this really hit the spot for me in terms of its direction.

Very much this. Thank you Justin for the thorough description of the process and staying on the forums to respond to feedback. Looking forward to hearing the actual theme music for PoE and of course combat music.

[Starwars]

I also have a request for Justin/Josh, whoever might be reading this.

 

Is it possible that we could get a toggle in the options for using combat music or not? I think it can certainly have a purpose but there are many times in games where I just feel annoyed when the ambient music cuts out, replaced by a gigantic "the end is nigh" doomsday choir, to illustrate that I'm now fighting a wolf.

 

Would love to have the option to toggle that on/off if possible.

[Labadal]

I also have a request for Justin/Josh, whoever might be reading this.

 

Is it possible that we could get a toggle in the options for using combat music or not? I think it can certainly have a purpose but there are many times in games where I just feel annoyed when the ambient music cuts out, replaced by a gigantic "the end is nigh" doomsday choir, to illustrate that I'm now fighting a wolf.

 

Would love to have the option to toggle that on/off if possible.

Or make the transition into combat music more smooth. Not many games do this right.

[Varana]

Thanks for the nice update.

And thank you for choosing a more ambient track for demonstration, and not some show-off bombastic action sequence. :D It's a nice thing ybout these updates that we get a glimpse into some aspects which aren't usually shown during development, as they may not induce that much excitement as an epic fight against dragons, or whatever.

[Undecaf]

I liked the track. I don't know how indicative it is of the rest of the score, but I do think it is a bit on the ordinary side of things, stuff that is good but also something you hear in more or less similiar ways in almost all other games of similiar nature. I had hoped for a bit more experimental touch; melody structures and chord combinations somewhat on the unfamiliar side, a bit of surprise in the choice of instruments and proposed mood, little touches that set the piece apart from the norm but can of course still be related to the scene on top of which it plays.

 

Arcanum is something of an extreme example, but it's relatively unorthodox simplicity gave the game pretty unique mood and feel that wouldn't have been quite there if the score was not what it was.

[Avtom]

This track remind me some elder scroll OST… but I prefer a something like BG2 OST : Epic and happy =)

Even the calm moment in BG saga are more aerial than this track.

[Messier-31]

The track has not swept me off my feet. Still, I like it.

 

Even though my favourite tracks are the ones like "Abazigal's Lair" and "Amkethran" from ToB there is need for both vivid, epic music AND tranquil, serene melodies - like the theme of "Kuldahar", but IwD-1 to be precise.

[Osvir]

 

Awesome! :D

 

Btw, try playing these 3 at the same time for a sample conceptual ambience (or mix and match). Don't need to listen to the Rain or Nature for all those hours of course.

 

Dyrford Theme

 

Rain/Watery Sound

 

Nature/Bird Sound

 

I get the feeling that the Dyrford is a slow place. A kind of "soft" and calm area where not much is really going on, and the pictures also portray ruins and that in itself portrays a form of sadness, or abandonment. Someone else mentioned "desolation" and I agree there too. Like that granary (is that a granary?), the building that has no roof, why wasn't it repaired? Is it an area of some unrest or... are people simply poor or heavily taxed here?

 

The sound style does remind me of Arcanum somehow though...

 

Arcanum Wilderness Theme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajap5zmDog8&list=PL4C09A3D352D273F1

Thanks for pointing that out.  It sounds very different in that context.

I completely forgot but you are going to want to lower the volume on the Rain and the Nature sound so that it doesn't overwhelm the Dyrford theme (Rain+Birds=50%-75% 10%-20%, and Dyrford = 100%). Sound levels are really important, and you don't want the emphasis on the Dyrford theme to disappear in the noise of the other stuff.

 

Also, this one might be better instead of the Rain one (more fitting, it is a gentle River sound).

 

And here's a "village" sample (birds, horses, bells ringing). Conceptual only really, not very fitting with the images of Dyrford and the general feeling of it, merely a conceptual sample.

 

EDIT: Oh cool I found a cool little website http://www.pond5.com/sound-effects/1/windmill.html I guess Obsidian probably have all their assets and tools themselves to create sounds effects but thought this one could be useful. Pond5.com. You need to buy the items to remove a copyright thing (I think) which appears in there (a woman's voice who keeps saying "Pond5.com" every 5-6 seconds or so).

 

This is what I was looking for, Windmill Watermill sound effect (YouTube). Not the best example but it fits fairly well.

 

I like the sound of these 4 together (A bit of a repeat, they are in the links above, but just to organize it a little bit):

1. Dyrford (100% Volume)

2. Water-Mill (5%~10% Volume)

3. Gentle Stream (10%~20% Volume)

4. Ambient Medieval (20%~ Volume)

Edited April 16, 2014 by Osvir

[Mor]

It is not suppose to sweep you off your feet, it is a background music not hype building trailer. Here try Justin Bell previous work from the KS trailer that I found linked on the wiki:

https://soundcloud.com/obsidian-entertainment/sets/project-eternity/

[Osvir]

You are absolutely correct Mor. That prelude is amazing for instance <3 gives me all kinds of goosebumps.

I myself am merely just throwing out items of various sounds in an attempt to inspire or give Justin ideas

I like the Dyrford sound style and feeling, the only thing it lacks is the sound of the environment of the area (nature, the watermill, the river, bugs/crickets? Animals? Are people walking around or is it empty of life? Wind? Etc. etc.).

 

The tune tells me a "Story/Lore" of the area, it does not tell me if there is "Life" in the area.

EDIT: I also have a question for Justin, which I forgot to ask:

Do you do any field work outside the office? Like, go outside and record nature sounds outside, or do you have a big library of different sound effects that you use and mix?

Edited April 16, 2014 by Osvir

[anameforobsidian]

It'd be neat to have a smaller post on ambient sounds and effects, maybe one in-between the larger two week updates.  Right now I really want more gameplay footage; it's been a year and we don't know what a fight will look like from start to finish.  But whenever possible on, it'd be interesting to take a look at a render and hear what sound effects would be put in that scene, also whether they play based on proximity or are just built into the overall scene.

Edited April 16, 2014 by anameforobsidian

[Hormalakh]

I have to emphatically disagree with all the people who say this music should be more epic. The music is trying to imply something about the scenery, whatever that may be. If it's bland, forgetful or dreary, perhaps it is meant to evoke that feeling. If it is evoking the wrong feeling, then fine, it should be changed. Otherwise, I think too much "EPIC" gets tiring fast. There are likely going to be pieces of epic music, but sometimes you want to evoke a different feeling.

 

I don't think hearing baldur's gate epic introductory music in a sleepy village is very appropriate.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Hormalakh

[Sensuki]

It does sound better with rain.

 

The Witcher 1 had a combination of environmental tracks, environmental sounds (rain, birds etc etc) and music tracks. Sometimes there would be all three playing at once and that worked really well in conjunction, but very hard to replicate outside of the game.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Sensuki

[IndiraLightfoot]

I have to emphatically disagree with all the people who say this music should be more epic. The music is trying to imply something about the scenery, whatever that may be. If it's bland, forgetful or dreary, perhaps it is meant to evoke that feeling. If it is evoking the wrong feeling, then fine, it should be changed. Otherwise, I think too much "EPIC" gets tiring fast. There are likely going to be pieces of epic music, but sometimes you want to evoke a different feeling.

 

I don't think hearing baldur's gate epic introductory music in a sleepy village is very appropriate.

I really like to compliment my earlier post about the sound track with this important caveat!

First and foremost, it's the strings that dominate the tune that I find too synthetic and squeaky cold in relation to those warm, almost southern France and Spain landscape of Dyrwood (at least colour-wise). JFSOCC's tune captured that nicely. So, if anything, a choice of a warmer, smoother instrument (or simply another set of strings), would do this melancholic track even more justice. I love that it is sparse and everything about it!

Edited April 16, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Labadal]

Listened to it again. 0:40-1:20 would fit right in in the world of Arcanum. Especially 0:40-0:55. This is not a bad thing since I love the Arcanum soundtrack. Did I say Arcanum? Arcanum. My nerdiness ends here.