Bottomless omnipresent stash in Eternity?

[JFSOCC]

I wonder if it will be possible to equip hirelings at your stronghold with all the stuff you've put in your deep stash.

[Elerond]

In my opinion bottomless stash gives them ability make inventory management play much larger role in game, as stash removes economy from equation when it comes to balance how much stuff each party member should be able to carry, which means that they can put much more restricts on how much character can carry and what s/he can carry. For example they can for example make it so that each character can only carry one suit of armor, and make weapon slots play much more important role in the game, and especially restrict number of consumables that character can carry and use in battles.  

 

In my opinion using inventory to balance economy isn't worth of effort as it is other things that usually breaks economical balance in rpg, like number of valuable loot, money drains, money wells, etc..

[Fatback]

I wonder if it will be possible to equip hirelings at your stronghold with all the stuff you've put in your deep stash.

I did post something along these lines no one bit.

 

Also with the deep stash and on permanent death mode if you loose a couple companions and have to go to adventure hall to make more. It might be nice to have a store of items if you are going to try for a different comp.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Fatback

[MuseBreaks]

It is quite an annoying issue indeed. As many stated, almost every solution to this question is somehow unrealistic and has it's own ups and downs. However I do think the devs should have made a little bit of a different solution: in the form of magical bags that you can put as much stuff as you like in them and they loose their weight in them, and that's it (and it obviously also takes time until you get such begs for each of your companions and yourself, but through the game you will eventually find 1 bag for everyone). or something similar. I guess what they did is similar ^_^ 

[Osvir]

I wonder if it will be possible to equip hirelings at your stronghold with all the stuff you've put in your deep stash.

I read this as "deep stash", in such a way that the stash itself is very philosophically or spiritually deep. In a "That's deep man" kind of way.

 

.............. for the record: Osvir is very tired today.

[Lephys]

I read this as "deep stash", in such a way that the stash itself is very philosophically or spiritually deep. In a "That's deep man" kind of way.

 

.............. for the record: Osvir is very tired today.

Maybe the dimension in the stash... is "the outside"... and our world -- what we consider to be outside the stash, is actually the container...

 

O_O...

 

[rjshae]

I pictured the stash as piles of loot stored in already cleared areas that you pass back through on your way to the camp. Maybe it's hidden in empty crates... or hidden in holes... or hung from tress in sacks. Just anywhere that you can access through repetitive travel, yet be reasonably concealed.

[Endrosz]

I've been playing On The Rain-slick Precipice of Darkness 3 recently, and I think I have discovered the secret of the Deep Stash(TM!) It's pelicorsairs that haul back the loot while you're adventuring -- there is no other logical explanation!

 

[Mor]

I pictured the stash as piles of loot stored in already cleared areas that you pass back through on your way to the camp. Maybe it's hidden in empty crates... or hidden in holes... or hung from tress in sacks. Just anywhere that you can access through repetitive travel, yet be reasonably concealed.

I assumed everyone did.. you got your equipment(slots), your pack(s) that you carry on your back as you venture forth(depends on your strength/might) and the stuff you stash along the way and pick up on your way back and can access only in rest points. http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Inventory

 

The last bit isn't too realistic, but IMO it offer a. good gameplay and b. probably says something about the game loot system. If you can take everything back, it is not likely that we will see endless drops of meaningless loot, it would probably be more emphasis on gold and more unique items. (which hopefully will be effected by some non combat skills)

Edited April 14, 2014 by Mor

[serguma]

They have a magic courier system that stores and delivers items as needed, or that is what I choose to believe .

[Mor]

I think that every game has its suspension of disbelief

[Osvir]

 

There is nothing to fix except the players head.

 

Big Head Mode. It's the solution... I think.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Osvir

[TrashMan]

 

I agree with your sentiment. However, in all fairness, it's perfectly reasonable to assume there'll be more than you can carry, in a lot of overall areas that you'll adventure through, but only by a little bit instead of a crap-ton, and not because you can simply loot random pebbles and melted candles that you find lying around.

 

Or, to put it another way, you don't have to be able to loot 1,000 things, much less 1,000 junky things, for inventory management to become an issue.

 

And, valuables are valuables. Just because it's handled poorly in a lot of games doesn't make it inherently silly that your party would say "Hmm... I dunno... we should REALLY make use of this really good-quality armor that this guy was wearing."

 

In fact, with loot a lot more reasonable in quantity/quality/frequency, you'd think it'd be even MORE reasonable for your party to make the most of what they find. In Diablo world, where you're going to find 3 weapons and a gemstone on every 3rd enemy you slay out of 1,000, who really cares if you missed a couple valuable things? In a world where you only find 5 gold-filigreed swords throughout the entire campaign, how silly would it be to just shrug that off because you happen to be at capacity (which is also a lot more reasonable, instead of being able to carry 5 suits of armor and 3 bastard swords around per-character)?

 

So, *shrug*. I think that sentiment, as it applies to PoE, is really kind of conditional. IF there's stupid amounts of loot and junk everywhere, and the game viably sets things up for you to want to take everything and sell it for 1 copper, then yeah, that's dumb. But, I think if loot's handled a lot more reasonably, then it's a lot more reasonable for there to be some abstraction of "we're gonna acquire that valuable item, but we just aren't going to have it at our disposal right now."

 

Granted, I do hope it's at least simply explained in the game, instead of just "use your imagination, but you can take all this stuff and access it later."

 

 

 

I think you misunderstand. I never said that there shouldn't be a lot of things you COULD pick up - the amount of loot is in general irrelevant to the argument.

I said the game shouldn't encourage you to do it.

 

Inventory management is a concern - one that raises tactical, strategic and logistical issues. And therefore it shouldn't be ignored.

 

What I don't support is the effort to make a tedious, time-consuming and illogical task simple and fast. Nobody is forcing the player to do it - heck he doesn't need to. Yet some insist.

 

Think of it this way:

You can get +1 level for your dagger in-game by killing 100 villagers in a village, and the player does it. It makes no sense for the character to go on a killing spree or the party to go along with it. The guards react and make life difficult for the player. And going around and killing 100 people is tedious work.

So the player complains and the developers make killing villagers faster and remove the guards.

It's pretty much the same.

Do something tedious for a tiny in-game advantage, then demand it should be made un-tedious, regardless of how it affect the setting, the gameplay or anything else.

 

Carrying everything that isn't bolted down is not a "playstyle" that should be supported or cartered to.

 

 

If you really want that +5 sword, then make room for it. Drop something you don't need. Don't carry unnecessary stuff to begin with - leave them in your keep before you set off. Return later for that sword.

 

[Elerond]

Inventory management has usually two aspect in it that most often don't have anything to do with each other.

 

First aspect is tactical and strategic aspect where inventory's mission is to restrict how much and what stuff you can use in battles and on traveling between places. This stuff usually consist on weapons, armors, consumables (like potions, grenades, scrolls, wands, arrows, bolts, bullets) .

 

Second aspect is economical, where inventory is used to restrict amount of money that player can have in game. 

 

Unlimited stash has little impact on first aspect of inventory management, as you can't access stuff that are in stash when you are travelling and especially when you are in combat. But as strategic/tactical inventory don't need to take account stuff that player needs to carry for economical reasons it can mean number of weapons, armors, and consumables that character's can have access is much more limited than what it is for example in IE games, which means that player needs to think more carefully what stuff s/he carrying in his or her character's tactical inventory. For example when you don't need to take account economical loot you can make strategic/tactical inventory such that character's can have access only couple weapons, very limited number of consumables and make it so that character's can only change their armor, boots, cloak, rings, amulet, etc. in safe places where you have access on stash.

 

Economic aspect of inventory management will vanish with unlimited stash, but this can be balanced with changing how much loot there is in the game in the first place, and/or changing number of money sinks or making money sinks drain more money. As PoE don't try to be or want to be economic simulator, which means that economics are there only to create atmosphere and as one way to control player's progression in the game, which means that inventory management for economical purposes outside of selling and buying stuff has little purpose for that gameplay that it tries to accomplish, which means that unlimited stash has little impact on over all gameplay, although it means that player don't need to leave loot behind in any case (which was not very common occurrence even in IE games, but something that could happen if you explored too much), which is for some people something that is important for their suspension of disbelief. 

 

One aspect that I think they could add in stash is that it could have two tiers, where one is limited and you can access it in every safe place and second is unlimited and you can access it only in cities, your stronghold and similar places, which would mean that you have access only limited number stuff when you are exploring.

[Walsingham]

There's been a lot of good points made. I didn't have time t read all of them.

 

The way this works practically in Fallout New Vegas is you boost your barter and take about three perks. Voila, more storage and storage carting that you could ever want.

 

In this way I was forced to ask why the giddy f*** I was dragging so much crap around. I never bloody used it. Took perks in being cool and murdering people, forgot all about storing 10,000 conductors.

 

EDIT: However, it's all up to the player. If they insist on spending three perks on dragging a bazillion 9mm rounds around for 20 guns they don't use then they can have at it.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Walsingham

[constantine]

A considerable part of my play time in the Baldur's Gate series was managing inventory space, categorizing and storing items. I stored my items in places I didn't own or Inns. Reality jumps out the window when you force the player to act so, so screw your 18 or 20 inventory slots and weight limit.

 

Personally I am relieved of the bottomless stash.

[rjshae]

There's been a lot of good points made. I didn't have time t read all of them.

 

The way this works practically in Fallout New Vegas is you boost your barter and take about three perks. Voila, more storage and storage carting that you could ever want.

 

In this way I was forced to ask why the giddy f*** I was dragging so much crap around. I never bloody used it. Took perks in being cool and murdering people, forgot all about storing 10,000 conductors.

 

EDIT: However, it's all up to the player. If they insist on spending three perks on dragging a bazillion 9mm rounds around for 20 guns they don't use then they can have at it.

 

Yeah, there's ridiculous levels of ported cr*p in Fallout 3/NLV.

 

IIRC, I think Josh has mentioned you could choose talents that allow you to expand your equipment slots. Or was it 'top of the pack' slots? So, somewhat similar in concept.

[Lephys]

What I don't support is the effort to make a tedious, time-consuming and illogical task simple and fast. Nobody is forcing the player to do it - heck he doesn't need to. Yet some insist.

*shrug*. I feel like you're neglecting the simple fact that, especially in a more realistic world in which you've got to actually fund causes and efforts such as the stronghold, it's 1,000% reasonable that you'd not say "Ohhh, man. All three of those orcs had really nice quality swords, but we're really just jam-packed here with all the feasible, non-illogical stuff we're carrying around. You know what? Eff it. I know those swords would be very useful in arming people in various factions/groups, or even just in our stronghold, or even just provide much-needed money with which to buy more trade goods/food, but, we'll just NEVER come back and get them, or ever send anyone to fetch them, or anything."

 

It's pretty infeasible that you'll fight your way through, say, a Kobold Fortress (a la BG), and not find a crap-ton of actually useful stuff, and not just oodles of random candles and rolls of parchment and animal bones that, for some reason in the game's code, sell for 1 copper a piece.

 

The only thing that makes it a "tedious, time-consuming, and illogical task" is when it's just scrounging literally everything you can pick up that no one in their right mind (in-character) would EVER make a trip back for. Thus, that's kind of related to what it is the game allows us to pick up, how much of it there is, etc. I hardly think it has nothing to do with that.

 

You say inventory management shouldn't be ignored, but it isn't being ignored. You say the game shouldn't encourage you to do it, but it shouldn't encourage you not to do it, either. You should just decide based on completely legitimate reasoning, whether or not you actually want something, etc.

 

That being said, I do agree that there should probably be an actual limit to the size of the stash. That would at least make a lot more sense. I mean, the benefits of PoE's system are already:

 

A) Much more realistic individual inventory sizes for characters, and

B) The abstraction of all that acquiring more than your characters would feasibly just carry out of some place.

 

The "infinite" part isn't really necessary, as you could more feasibly abstract the process of acquiring that stuff without necessarily acquiring all of it no matter what. It really depends on a lot of things, but the limitation could be there, in whatever form. Maybe you can't actually access the deep stash until after a time limit (the abstracted amount of time it takes for you to actually get the items back to your stronghold). This time limit could be affected by how much you're trying to take from a given place. Thus, if you just check the "all things" box, and you get all the moldy cheese wheels and rusty daggers and pebbles, it's going to take a lot longer than if you don't do that.

 

Limiting it, I'm fine with. But, telling the player he simply cannot go back to a cave that's 8 hours away and fill his inventory back up? What's the point in that? You might as well just force the game's design such that the amount of found loot and inventory sizes match up pretty well, rather than taking the super round-a-bout way of forcing the same thing.

 

Even if the reason is urgency, you're still not really discouraging that behavior. There just happens to be a factor in place that greatly affects you the more return trips you want to make to a location just to pick up all the stuff.

 

Again, the less stuff there is to pick up, the less disparity there is between any of these implementations.

 

TL;DR: The amount of stuff available to be looted does matter, and, while the process of acquiring/transporting more than you can immediately carry from point A to point B is perfectly feasible to abstract, that doesn't necessarily mean making it limitless (whether the limit is time, or space, or both, etc.).

[Walsingham]

So isn't the actual solution sending up some sort of magical wahoonie flare which attracts the loot-gnomes of Zeniharre? These helpful bastards will collect any loose crud lying around for a a 20% cut, and sell it.

[rjshae]

 

I wonder if it will be possible to equip hirelings at your stronghold with all the stuff you've put in your deep stash.

I did post something along these lines no one bit.

 

Also with the deep stash and on permanent death mode if you loose a couple companions and have to go to adventure hall to make more. It might be nice to have a store of items if you are going to try for a different comp.

 

Yes, I've suggested this as well. To me, it makes a lot of sense and will add to the sense of connection with your stronghold. A panel with a grid of key NPCs vs. equipment slots would allow you to manage it, then have the loyalty of your stronghold personnel be partially impacted by how well equipped they are.

[Lephys]

So isn't the actual solution sending up some sort of magical wahoonie flare which attracts the loot-gnomes of Zeniharre? These helpful bastards will collect any loose crud lying around for a a 20% cut, and sell it.

It's jawas, man. Those jawas will take ANYthing!

[Lord Gorchnik]

So isn't the actual solution sending up some sort of magical wahoonie flare which attracts the loot-gnomes of Zeniharre? These helpful bastards will collect any loose crud lying around for a a 20% cut, and sell it.

 

Call me crazy but I actually want this to be a thing.  Maybe not exactly like that but I would love to see a roaming group that just picks up random crap that has been lying around in the world that you left sitting there and then if you need it they will be MORE than happy to sell it to you at a 20% markup

[Walsingham]

 

So isn't the actual solution sending up some sort of magical wahoonie flare which attracts the loot-gnomes of Zeniharre? These helpful bastards will collect any loose crud lying around for a a 20% cut, and sell it.

 

Call me crazy but I actually want this to be a thing.  Maybe not exactly like that but I would love to see a roaming group that just picks up random crap that has been lying around in the world that you left sitting there and then if you need it they will be MORE than happy to sell it to you at a 20% markup

 

 

How about you call them in using a spell? If later on it turns out that you wanted it you can buy it from them for maybe 30% of the market price because they're basically mental. They only collect stuff because the spell marks it. The way a tooth fairy collects teeth. 

 

This way I know I'd leave most things, and as I said earlier you'd probably never buy it back because it's utterly useless. But if you did need it then you can.

[Lephys]

What if you just fill your party with Wizards, and fill your Grimoires with Shrink spells? Then, you could just carry all the things. 8P

[Hassat Hunter]

in the gothic series, you could carry on you every piece of junk you colected... it was not realistic, but it was convenient. same thing for the kotor games. did it make these games any less fun to play? here, to keep things more tactical, they allow you to keep a limited amount of useable items and the rest are magically sent to camp for convenience. the best of both worlds

Well... yes? I can't speak for Gothic, but I can for KOTOR. KOTOR1 it wasn't that bad... you ignore pretty much most drops, except for stuff you buy.

It's starting to get insane in KOTOR2, where you get so much crap filling your inventory, you seriously stop giving a crap about it all. Once every 3 hours you check if you got something better than your current gear, and you move on. Crap lost all meaning and has infact... turned crap.

Compare 'Yay, new item' BG2 and 'crap, crap, crap' KOTOR2 and yes, there's a serious extreme level of reduced fun to play.

 

Also, remember how much 'fun' everyone was having with ME1? Maybe they can do the same for PoE2... just turn everything in magic goo, no more need for a pesky inventory puzzle... just stick +100 goo on your armor and morph it at will.

Such is the future! Such is "fun"... is it really fun though?

Nope. 

A considerable part of my play time in the Baldur's Gate series was managing inventory space, categorizing and storing items. I stored my items in places I didn't own or Inns. Reality jumps out the window when you force the player to act so, so screw your 18 or 20 inventory slots and weight limit.

Then you're seriously doing something wrong, since I don't recall any of these behaviors from me in any IE games, and I am a hoarder. Of course, logically (although I suppose reading this thread, not so) I left 1 gold armors and swords from downed enemies where they belong, the floor.

And this was even in BG1 where I had a full inventory of missiles and bullets on my least strength hero.

 

As you might have read, I definitely agree with the stance that OE should not appease the "I want all lootz" crowd, and that will definitely weaken the game, just like all the other games it has done so in the past. Learn from past mistakes, not repeat them!