Global Implications of the Ukraine Crisis

[milczyciel]

Whatever the case would be, such behavior is one of the many reasons I became a cynical, apathetic ass my dear Tagaziel. Take that into account, next time you "feel distasteful" about others pessimistic and cynical self-defense mechanisms.

 

Hope it didn't came as being spiteful - I'm just making a point here.

[213374U]

I've been thinking about the Crimean vote in the context of the Afghan one happening just now.

 

I am not budging one inch from my position of active containment regarding Putin's ideology, but I think it's important to be honest.

 

How exactly is what happened in Crimea so much worse than votes being held in Iraq and Afghanistan? There are soldiers on the ground there.

 

The key differences are that a) the referendum in Crimea was unconstitutional as per the (admittedly depreciated) law of Ukraine and b) the result was a given. Indeed, the very act of organizing the referendum was grounded on the certainty of the outcome—as is usually the case when the people are asked direct questions about governance. "Worse", though, I don't know about that. I guess that depends on who wins the Presidential election in Afghanistan, and even then, you'd have to specify worse for whom. Not sure it can get much worse than Karzai, though there's always the possibility of a new government being willing to accomodate the Taliban. I think that would certainly be worse by any standards.

[213374U]

What would scare me most, rather than oby being a paid promoter of Russia, is that he is a genuine believer. Think about it, a guy getting paid per post, cynically posting the most outrageous crap so that the Big Lie eclipses the small lie, and laughing his ass off at trolling other users.

 

Then I have bad news for you.

 

Scared yet?

[IndiraLightfoot]

As useful as it is to underscore that actual Russians aren't like oby, I have to point out that oby is as Russian as my fruitbasket.

I've read quite a few of Oby's posts, and definitely agree. He's no Russian. Just the semantics of his fake Russian spelling mistakes give him away. They reek of "Russian as portrayed in American movies". In all likelihood, he's a pretty clever middle-aged American guy with a knack for long-standing forum roleplaying, a class-act troll, if you will, stepping it all up three leagues. And he seems good at it too, but almost nothing gives him away as Russian. Believe me, I have a handful of Russian friends, and Polish ones, actually. Well, he doesn't fit the bill at all.

Edited April 4, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Rostere]

 

Now if Israel had been fully occupied during the 1973 war, it would likely had become a non-democratic country with close Comintern ties, because of the ideologies of the invading countries and the general pro-Comintern sentiments among the parties such as PFLP which were in vogue at the time.

 

Just a quick clarification: Comintern as such was disbanded by Uncle Joe in 1943. By the 70's there was no international forum or umbrella organization for commies to rally to—it was either straight up pro-Soviet, or pro-Chinese.

 

Sorry. I was looking for use a word for "Communist countries aligned with the SU during the 1970s and 1960s" and just typed it in as I'm used to referring to that bloc of countries as Comintern while playing HoI 2 . Maybe, if we stick to talking about actual de facto alliances, I should have used "Warsaw Pact" or perhaps "Comecon" instead. Obviously terminology of 20th-century Communist international relations is not my stronger side.

[Walsingham]

 

I've been thinking about the Crimean vote in the context of the Afghan one happening just now.

 

I am not budging one inch from my position of active containment regarding Putin's ideology, but I think it's important to be honest.

 

How exactly is what happened in Crimea so much worse than votes being held in Iraq and Afghanistan? There are soldiers on the ground there.

 

The key differences are that a) the referendum in Crimea was unconstitutional as per the (admittedly depreciated) law of Ukraine and b) the result was a given. Indeed, the very act of organizing the referendum was grounded on the certainty of the outcome—as is usually the case when the people are asked direct questions about governance. "Worse", though, I don't know about that. I guess that depends on who wins the Presidential election in Afghanistan, and even then, you'd have to specify worse for whom. Not sure it can get much worse than Karzai, though there's always the possibility of a new government being willing to accomodate the Taliban. I think that would certainly be worse by any standards.

 

 

I acknowledge that the legal authorities I defer to judged it unconstitutional. However, my impression is that the overall trend of Crimean opinion is pro-Putin. Plus was the point not made here that Crimea has tried to leave before?

 

I am committed to continued British association for the Falkland islands; and that means adherence to the principle of self-determination. I am also proud of what I regard as free elections in Iraq and Afghanistan, yet these countries have elections with a huge military presence.

 

Personally I think the real issue in Crimea is that you cannot have a vote on an issue without meaningful debate and time for deliberation. But I thought it would be interesting to discuss it.

[Zoraptor]

How exactly is what happened in Crimea so much worse than votes being held in Iraq and Afghanistan? There are soldiers on the ground there.

I guess that the US and NATO would say that they don't/ didn't try and influence the outcome while the Russian troops did, but I've still to see anyone seriously suggest that Crimea would not have voted as it did even without the Russian troops- even when it was outright criminal to advocate secession a significant plurality stated said support to pollsters. Practically the difference is that the west doesn't want at all to even consider the slightest thought of annexing Iraq or Afghanistan.

 

The unflattering comparison would not be to the current/ recent elections in Afghanistan and Iraq but the earlier appointment of the immediate successor governments/ the occupying force administrations. In both cases it was people hand picked by the west that chose the new leaders, either in the form of the CPA (don't think it needs restating how appallingly bad and utterly undemocratic that administration was, it will forever serve as example of What Not To Do) and its successor interim government or the Loya Jirga in Afghanistan, and the immediate successors were, unsurprisingly, strongly pro west- at first, even Hamid Karzai was. And in both cases those client governments enacted agreements that were highly skewed and favourable towards the occupying forces, eg status of forces agreements that essentially granted Sovereign Immunity of the type usually granted to diplomats to military personnel and even private military contractors actually having checked the Iraqi one at least included all foreign contractors full stop as well as the military.

 

It can be argued forever about which approach is worse, the Russians annexed Crimea, the west didn't do so for Iraq or Afghanistan so Russia gained directly while the west didn't. But Crimea is also now irrefutably Russia's responsibility, and was liberated with a minimum of bloodshed; they cannot hand wash Crimea in the same way the west hand washes Afghanistan and Iraq- declare victory, hand it over to the country's authorities no matter how broken and go home under a big 'mission accomplished' banner- whatever happens there is now Russia's responsibility. And there's a whole lot more that could be compared

 

But, in any case it's clear that the precedent Russia was using was not the Iraq/ Afghan model, but Kosovo. Hence the declaration of independence from Crimea as a step to accession, while this was mainly mentioned as being due to Russian constitutional factors the main reason was because while international law has annexations as illegal the ICoJ- in a judgement that suddenly seems to have been forgotten in the west- found declarations of independence not to be illegal.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Zoraptor

[Walsingham]

It's a bit early to draw any conclusions about what Russia will actually do for Crimea, as opposed to promises.

 

But personally I take your point about Western lack of follow through in Iraq and Afghan.

[Zoraptor]

Whatever Russia does is likely to be far better than what Ukraine did. It's telling that even after 20+ years there was still so much secessionist sympathy, and even anti Russian journos have said that the infrastructure in Crimea is, literally, crumbling. Russia certainly has all the motivation in the world to visibly improve things, if they really want to encourage more revanchist movements.

[BruceVC]

 

I stand by what I say on various issues because I believe it

 

So long as you believe mutually exclusive things- like Ukrainian gas prices should not be subsidised, except by Russia of all people; there should be freedom of speech, but things some people may find offensive should be banned etc- you're always going to come across as a troll because anyone with a grasp of basic logic is going to wonder why you're so frequently, and stridently, inconsistent and come up with the answer that you're trolling.

 

There's a reason people are convinced Oby is a troll, he posts vast amounts of pro Russian/ anti west stuff with very little in the way of consistency or logic about it, it isn't a consistent set of beliefs that an actual person would have but rather a bunch of stuff chosen to get a reaction and to fit Russia = good/ strong, west = bad/ weak. If you take the position that the IMF mandating an end to Ukrainian gas subsidies is good, but Russia ending them is bad you're doing exactly what Oby does. Your belief does not, in fact, have anything to do with the subsidies themselves. Your actual belief is that IMF = good, and Russia = bad so IMF ending subsidies must be good and Russia ending subsidies must be bad; and you contort the subsidy issue into a logic knot to try and fit that, basic, belief and narrative. Because it quite simply does not fit and you try to insist that it does it immediately make you look like a troll, because when viewed as being about subsidies alone you are taking a fundamentally inconsistent position- until you reduce it back to the actual equation.

 

 

Thanks for this post; it has been very interesting to see reasons why some people think I’m a troll. I have wondering why and now I understand, I want to take the time to explain a very important point around why this view of me is incorrect and misplaced

 

The premise of your characterization of me is based on the view that my posts are at times  illogical and inconsistent with the facts as you see them. And there is the actual problem, you think I am trolling but in fact either I’m not explaining myself properly or you do not simply understand my view.

Almost every debate I’ve had around numerous issues like the definition of free speech, sexism in the gaming industry or the situation in Ukraine is not based on some strange unsubstantiated view I have or some irritating conspiracy theory. I do my research and my comments are based primarily on the facts, current reality of the situation and historical context. I get my information from various sources and I can back it up with links if necessary.

 

You think it is trolling but the real point here is you are wrong and don’t seem to want to see the truth about certain situations in the world. Let me just give you one example to highlight as you raised it and it’s about the gas subsidies.

 

The IMF is about to lend Ukraine tens of billions of dollars. The IMF has a prudent policy where they audit countries that they lend money to ensure they have capacity to pay the loans back. One of the steps the IMF can insist on is financial structural reforms. The IMF has some of the most brilliant economic minds in the world and they can easily identify where there are economic pressures on certain countries that need there assistance, this is not hard to understand as normally these countries are obviously struggling. But they don’t do this to punish countries, these steps make sense as transformation is needed to make sure their economies are viable and to ensure they can pay back any loan from the IMF. This is banking 101; you don’t lend money to someone who can’t pay you back.

 

They have made it clear that in order for Ukraine to receive the necessary loans several things about how they run there economy have to change, one of them is the fact that Naftogaz has been selling gas to Ukrainians for less than they have been buying it from Russia for. This is obviously illogical and has to end. Yes this will be a negative for Ukrainians but it has long term advantages of helping Naftogaz become profitable or least not running at a loss. This is a good strategic move to help Ukraine, I’ll say it again. This is a good move to improve the Ukrainian economic situation and is part of the needed economic reform.

 

Russia decided to inflate gas prices purely as a politically punitive move. They are doing this because Ukraine has decided to align with the EU and frankly they don’t care about the consequences, they didn’t need to do this but the IMF does need to insist on financial reform before it lends vast amounts of money to Ukraine.

You talk about my comments not being logical but it stupefies me that you and others can’t or won’t see the obvious difference between the intentions of the IMF and Russia ending the gas subsidies.

 

I can substantiate almost all points in the same way I have explained the above point so I hope this puts to rest the absurd suggestion that I troll in debates, remember being factually correct is not  a sign of trolling.

Finally there are times when I have been wrong in discussions, like the misplaced “Ban the Bossy word campaign” but this is not one of them

Edited April 6, 2014 by BruceVC

[Valsuelm]

 

 

My apologies for replying to a post from the old thread, but I felt I couldn't just leave it unanswered.

 

 

 

No need to apologize as it's not really an old thread but this one before it was interrupted. That threads are closed on this forum just for reaching an arbitrary # of posts is pretty retarded in my opinion.

 

 

IIRC, this was originally done for stablility reasons—huge topics caused issues and posts would go missing or something; it's not arbitrary. The software has been updated numerous times however, so I'm not sure it's still necessary.

 

Also, the old version of the forum software allowed you to go into "reply" mode even in locked threads, where you could then copy the whole post and paste it on the new thread, with proper quotations and link to the original post. Maybe the mod squad could check with Admin if it would be possible to have that option back or enable the "multiquote" button in locked topics?

 

 

If the forum software really becomes unstable due to a large # of posts in a thread I'd say it's past time to ditch the company that Obsidian uses and move on to new forum software. The technology for stable threads with posts well beyond 500 and into the many many many thousands has been around for a couple of decades now.

 

And yes, I preferred the old way of quoting/replying as well. The new way can be a bit buggy, and I find myself going into BBC Code mode fairly often.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Valsuelm

[Valsuelm]

 

 

Sure but we know regime change is sometimes necessary, like in the case of Milosevic. Its a question of " what is best for the region" and " what is the current regime in a particular country doing with its power, is it benefiting its citizens"

Quite interesting logic here. At some point of time some people believed cleansing certain regions from certain ethnicities are "what is best for the region".

Anyway, looking at how everything turned out for Iraq, Lybia, Syria and Egypt I kinda think someone asking wrong people about "what is best for the region".

 

 

 

Actually you have unintentionally supported my view about the right way the West can implement regime change. You mentioned some examples, Libya is the correct way to implement regime change and Syria is the result of where the West is prevented from getting involved by the vetoing power of Russia and China

 

So lets look at the state of Syria and Libya now and ask yourself what country is better off? Yes things aren't perfect in Libya but its no where near the catastrophic level  of economic and social collapse that Syria is at....

 

So once again I do support the principle of Western intervention to assist with regime change in some cases.

 

 

Libya was far far far far far far FAR better off before the 'west' got involved, attacked, and toppled Gaddafi. Same for Syria. The west is involved in Syria. Who do you think is funding and arming the 'rebels'?

 

[Valsuelm]

The sanctions against Russia may finally be felt in real terms. Poor Finns, innocent bystanders to all of this, and they're the ones paying. A matter of time before Putin caves now? Is the a cause of celebration that sanctions can actually do some good? Or is this what it all really is?

[Agiel]

A Russian army vet that served in Chechnya (both times), now journalist, welcomes Crimea to Russia:

 

Originally Russian, translated into Swedish for Dagens Nyheter, then finally into English

 

 

Good to see you. And allow us to congratulate you on the last referendum in your lives. Further "declarations of intent" will not be permitted. You simply will not get to choose again - never, and nothing. Never and nothing. Not even the color of the borders of your own backyard. Commit it to memory right away.

Second, you can say goodbye to your television. Good bye live broadcasts, talk shows and debate shows. Hello smearings, dead bodies, freaks and jokes about pee and genitals. Propaganda instead of news, hardcore! Special broadcasts with Putin's eternal monologues.

Thirdly: conscription army. A separate chapter. During the 23 years since the fall of the USSR, you have obviously forgotten what occupation means when your children are called up for military service. But it doesn't matter. You will remember. Especially when your children in our - sorry, I mean your - army begin to die from diseases that young people elsewhere in the world have not died from in a hundred years. Pneumonia, for example. Accustomed to Crimea terrain, they may serve on the island of Kunasjir in the Pacific.

It might be a good idea to take a look at what the "Caucasus force" (translator's note: I've not been able to find references to this. Swedish: Kaukasusstyrkan.) has tattooed on their shaved heads.

By the way, here is a link that you can write down right away: http://mright.hro.org. It links to the Mother's Right Foundation who for twenty years have supported the families of killed servicemen. Only last year they helped 2,465 families. Speaking of dead servicemen, 20 percent were suicide, 20 were percent "forced suicide", 25 percent diseases and 5 percent due to physical abuse.

But as the song goes, "Do not cry, my giiirl!"

And yes, in Russia, the pension for disabled soldier mothers amounts to 40 dollars a month when the breadwinner dies. You heard right. In a few years, it is you who will get it. Welcome to our justice system.

Speaking of justice: it is far too long a story, so I'll just remind you of this: to incite hatred against religious people, offend believers' feelings, publicly defend terrorism (i.e. comments on Facebook), extremist statements, slander, all of this falls under the Criminal Code. To deny history, prevent citizens from taking a stroll, gather more than five people without a permit, behaving immorally, for all this - and much, much more! - the police administers justice on the spot.

Well, apparently, you have already become acquainted with our Cossacks . Good looking guys, right? And yet it is nothing, nothing. You have not seen our priests yet. By the way, there is an on going federal program to increase spirituality in the population and strengthen the spiritual ties under the motto "A church on every plot." Where you thought you would get a daycare or a road junction - you'll get a church. Yes, it's like that at my house - outside my window they are building one right now, instead of repairing the traffic lights. There are queues every morning, but never mind the junction! We need a church and nothing more. Well, just forget it, you will understand for yourselves in due time.

Ah, I almost forgot: you will of course pay the bill for the construction - as surely as amen in the church. The City Administration in Elektrostal, who came up with this spiritual innovation, will teach you how it works.

Well, now that we're on the subject of bills. We have a large housing reform in the works. Ten years and counting. And the next lap is just coming up. So soon, the rent of your apartment will be increased to over 800 dollars a month.

And then, all the benefits! You have probably already received financial compensation for the withdrawal of your benefits? Have you not? I see... I'm actually jealous of you. So many interesting discoveries await you!

By the way, exercises on the theme "disperse gatherings of disgruntled pensioners", our Dzerzjinskij division conducted those five years ago already. Rest assured that they will be happy to share their experiences with your Berkut unit.

But small matters like the confiscation of the best locations for palaces and mansions, the redistribution of business - all of them! - demolitions and arson against apartment buildings in order to build shopping centers and so on, and so on, and so on, well, I will not go into that. Nor tax offices, health centers, fire stations, prosecutors' offices, police stations, security service's local offices, municipal administrations and so on, and so on, and so on. You get most of you income from tourism down there, right? Oh, forget all about that that, just forget it. This is what we call "bad dreaming business". Forget that too. You will get used to it.

Oh yes, speaking of tourism - you have hotels, right? Right on the coast? On the whole Crimea? Nevermind, nevermind. Soon there will no longer any hotels right on the coast in Crimea.

But there will be a wonderful dacha for Governor Aleksandr Tkatjov! A dacha for Defence, Sergei Sjojgu! Dachas for all senators! Dachas ate all the deputies! Dachas for all the generals! And after them the whole Central Committee and all the prosecutors! Just think of all the yachts that will anchor at all private piers! Just think of all the enclosures will be built on your sea front!

You will have to be content with the municipal beach in Sevastopol.

By the way, I recommend that you learn the advertising slogans "You have many, I have one!" and "A cash register for all!" of the Russian postal service, Sberbank, the pensioners insurance fund, social services - it's all yours. Congrats.

Ah, that's right, yes: Sberbank, the savings bank. Again, you are in incredible luck - they have just launched a new round of pension reforms. Before, no could figure out how to calculate the pensions, and now makes it even less sense - if at all there will be any.

You might as well learn two additional concepts: CTO, which stands for Counter Terror Operation, and hexogen. This is important. For real. And in future, try to avoid places with other people, train stations, airports - well, especially train stations and airports - bus stations, markets, concerts and crowds in general.

If you still have to fly, make sure to be at the airport three hours in advance. At each entrance, there will be check points. Better not joke with the guards. Shave off your beard. Lighten your hair. Turn your pockets inside out and let them frisk you when they tell you. Never - never! - leave home without identification documents.

Yes, don't forget sanctions from our international friends, that is to say, our new enemies. You guys are in Russia now.

And then a few tiny matters. Well, a bunch of them, really:

It is prohibited to protest in Russia.

It is prohibited to resist the unlawful arrest and unlawful detention.

It is prohibited for regions to be autonomous. It is forbidden to leave the Russian federation. Separatism is prohibited.

It is prohibited for foreigners to adopt Russian children.

It is prohibited to propagate homosexuality.

It is prohibited for Madonna and Lady Gaga to perform.

It is prohibited to put up unauthorized posters.

The television network Dozjd is prohibited.

Any day now, online money will be prohibited.

Prices in Moscow is twice as high as in Kiev. On everything.

And, finally, for us (and now also for you), it is forbidden to sell alcohol from eleven at night till eight in the morning. The Sobriety Act, you see.

In short, welcome home.

Arkady Babtjenko

 

Edited April 7, 2014 by Agiel

[obyknven]

Arkady Babtjenko

 

 

 

This traitor change side yet long ago and become pro-jihadist russophobic propagandist . He also is ethnic Ukrainian with butthurt after last events. He is not  truthful source of information.

example of his texts

https://www.facebook.com/babchenkoa/posts/463943983705840

Here he do want NATO war against Russia. Imagine similar thing in US - some American "journalist" demand from China and Russia begin war against US and destroy your homeland. What reaction to such character can be in US? Russians just ignore this idiot.

[Hassat Hunter]

I've been thinking about the Crimean vote in the context of the Afghan one happening just now.

 

I am not budging one inch from my position of active containment regarding Putin's ideology, but I think it's important to be honest.

 

How exactly is what happened in Crimea so much worse than votes being held in Iraq and Afghanistan? There are soldiers on the ground there.

 

Hypocrisy.

The only other option would be "It ain't democracy unless 200 people die!" but that would be rather scary a thought...

[BruceVC]

 

A Russian army vet that served in Chechnya (both times), now journalist, welcomes Crimea to Russia:

 

Originally Russian, translated into Swedish for Dagens Nyheter, then finally into English

 

 

Good to see you. And allow us to congratulate you on the last referendum in your lives. Further "declarations of intent" will not be permitted. You simply will not get to choose again - never, and nothing. Never and nothing. Not even the color of the borders of your own backyard. Commit it to memory right away.

 

Second, you can say goodbye to your television. Good bye live broadcasts, talk shows and debate shows. Hello smearings, dead bodies, freaks and jokes about pee and genitals. Propaganda instead of news, hardcore! Special broadcasts with Putin's eternal monologues.

 

Thirdly: conscription army. A separate chapter. During the 23 years since the fall of the USSR, you have obviously forgotten what occupation means when your children are called up for military service. But it doesn't matter. You will remember. Especially when your children in our - sorry, I mean your - army begin to die from diseases that young people elsewhere in the world have not died from in a hundred years. Pneumonia, for example. Accustomed to Crimea terrain, they may serve on the island of Kunasjir in the Pacific.

 

It might be a good idea to take a look at what the "Caucasus force" (translator's note: I've not been able to find references to this. Swedish: Kaukasusstyrkan.) has tattooed on their shaved heads.

 

By the way, here is a link that you can write down right away: http://mright.hro.org. It links to the Mother's Right Foundation who for twenty years have supported the families of killed servicemen. Only last year they helped 2,465 families. Speaking of dead servicemen, 20 percent were suicide, 20 were percent "forced suicide", 25 percent diseases and 5 percent due to physical abuse.

 

But as the song goes, "Do not cry, my giiirl!"

 

And yes, in Russia, the pension for disabled soldier mothers amounts to 40 dollars a month when the breadwinner dies. You heard right. In a few years, it is you who will get it. Welcome to our justice system.

 

Speaking of justice: it is far too long a story, so I'll just remind you of this: to incite hatred against religious people, offend believers' feelings, publicly defend terrorism (i.e. comments on Facebook), extremist statements, slander, all of this falls under the Criminal Code. To deny history, prevent citizens from taking a stroll, gather more than five people without a permit, behaving immorally, for all this - and much, much more! - the police administers justice on the spot.

 

Well, apparently, you have already become acquainted with our Cossacks . Good looking guys, right? And yet it is nothing, nothing. You have not seen our priests yet. By the way, there is an on going federal program to increase spirituality in the population and strengthen the spiritual ties under the motto "A church on every plot." Where you thought you would get a daycare or a road junction - you'll get a church. Yes, it's like that at my house - outside my window they are building one right now, instead of repairing the traffic lights. There are queues every morning, but never mind the junction! We need a church and nothing more. Well, just forget it, you will understand for yourselves in due time.

 

Ah, I almost forgot: you will of course pay the bill for the construction - as surely as amen in the church. The City Administration in Elektrostal, who came up with this spiritual innovation, will teach you how it works.

 

Well, now that we're on the subject of bills. We have a large housing reform in the works. Ten years and counting. And the next lap is just coming up. So soon, the rent of your apartment will be increased to over 800 dollars a month.

 

And then, all the benefits! You have probably already received financial compensation for the withdrawal of your benefits? Have you not? I see... I'm actually jealous of you. So many interesting discoveries await you!

 

By the way, exercises on the theme "disperse gatherings of disgruntled pensioners", our Dzerzjinskij division conducted those five years ago already. Rest assured that they will be happy to share their experiences with your Berkut unit.

 

But small matters like the confiscation of the best locations for palaces and mansions, the redistribution of business - all of them! - demolitions and arson against apartment buildings in order to build shopping centers and so on, and so on, and so on, well, I will not go into that. Nor tax offices, health centers, fire stations, prosecutors' offices, police stations, security service's local offices, municipal administrations and so on, and so on, and so on. You get most of you income from tourism down there, right? Oh, forget all about that that, just forget it. This is what we call "bad dreaming business". Forget that too. You will get used to it.

 

Oh yes, speaking of tourism - you have hotels, right? Right on the coast? On the whole Crimea? Nevermind, nevermind. Soon there will no longer any hotels right on the coast in Crimea.

 

But there will be a wonderful dacha for Governor Aleksandr Tkatjov! A dacha for Defence, Sergei Sjojgu! Dachas for all senators! Dachas ate all the deputies! Dachas for all the generals! And after them the whole Central Committee and all the prosecutors! Just think of all the yachts that will anchor at all private piers! Just think of all the enclosures will be built on your sea front!

 

You will have to be content with the municipal beach in Sevastopol.

 

By the way, I recommend that you learn the advertising slogans "You have many, I have one!" and "A cash register for all!" of the Russian postal service, Sberbank, the pensioners insurance fund, social services - it's all yours. Congrats.

 

Ah, that's right, yes: Sberbank, the savings bank. Again, you are in incredible luck - they have just launched a new round of pension reforms. Before, no could figure out how to calculate the pensions, and now makes it even less sense - if at all there will be any.

 

You might as well learn two additional concepts: CTO, which stands for Counter Terror Operation, and hexogen. This is important. For real. And in future, try to avoid places with other people, train stations, airports - well, especially train stations and airports - bus stations, markets, concerts and crowds in general.

 

If you still have to fly, make sure to be at the airport three hours in advance. At each entrance, there will be check points. Better not joke with the guards. Shave off your beard. Lighten your hair. Turn your pockets inside out and let them frisk you when they tell you. Never - never! - leave home without identification documents.

 

Yes, don't forget sanctions from our international friends, that is to say, our new enemies. You guys are in Russia now.

 

And then a few tiny matters. Well, a bunch of them, really:

 

It is prohibited to protest in Russia.

 

It is prohibited to resist the unlawful arrest and unlawful detention.

 

It is prohibited for regions to be autonomous. It is forbidden to leave the Russian federation. Separatism is prohibited.

 

It is prohibited for foreigners to adopt Russian children.

 

It is prohibited to propagate homosexuality.

 

It is prohibited for Madonna and Lady Gaga to perform.

 

It is prohibited to put up unauthorized posters.

 

The television network Dozjd is prohibited.

 

Any day now, online money will be prohibited.

 

Prices in Moscow is twice as high as in Kiev. On everything.

 

And, finally, for us (and now also for you), it is forbidden to sell alcohol from eleven at night till eight in the morning. The Sobriety Act, you see.

 

In short, welcome home.

 

Arkady Babtjenko

 

 

 

Wow this is a very concerning post about life in the Russian federation, I'm hoping some of it is just propaganda. But some of it is truth as well 

[Elerond]

 

 

A Russian army vet that served in Chechnya (both times), now journalist, welcomes Crimea to Russia:

 

Originally Russian, translated into Swedish for Dagens Nyheter, then finally into English

 

 

Good to see you. And allow us to congratulate you on the last referendum in your lives. Further "declarations of intent" will not be permitted. You simply will not get to choose again - never, and nothing. Never and nothing. Not even the color of the borders of your own backyard. Commit it to memory right away.

 

Second, you can say goodbye to your television. Good bye live broadcasts, talk shows and debate shows. Hello smearings, dead bodies, freaks and jokes about pee and genitals. Propaganda instead of news, hardcore! Special broadcasts with Putin's eternal monologues.

 

Thirdly: conscription army. A separate chapter. During the 23 years since the fall of the USSR, you have obviously forgotten what occupation means when your children are called up for military service. But it doesn't matter. You will remember. Especially when your children in our - sorry, I mean your - army begin to die from diseases that young people elsewhere in the world have not died from in a hundred years. Pneumonia, for example. Accustomed to Crimea terrain, they may serve on the island of Kunasjir in the Pacific.

 

It might be a good idea to take a look at what the "Caucasus force" (translator's note: I've not been able to find references to this. Swedish: Kaukasusstyrkan.) has tattooed on their shaved heads.

 

By the way, here is a link that you can write down right away: http://mright.hro.org. It links to the Mother's Right Foundation who for twenty years have supported the families of killed servicemen. Only last year they helped 2,465 families. Speaking of dead servicemen, 20 percent were suicide, 20 were percent "forced suicide", 25 percent diseases and 5 percent due to physical abuse.

 

But as the song goes, "Do not cry, my giiirl!"

 

And yes, in Russia, the pension for disabled soldier mothers amounts to 40 dollars a month when the breadwinner dies. You heard right. In a few years, it is you who will get it. Welcome to our justice system.

 

Speaking of justice: it is far too long a story, so I'll just remind you of this: to incite hatred against religious people, offend believers' feelings, publicly defend terrorism (i.e. comments on Facebook), extremist statements, slander, all of this falls under the Criminal Code. To deny history, prevent citizens from taking a stroll, gather more than five people without a permit, behaving immorally, for all this - and much, much more! - the police administers justice on the spot.

 

Well, apparently, you have already become acquainted with our Cossacks . Good looking guys, right? And yet it is nothing, nothing. You have not seen our priests yet. By the way, there is an on going federal program to increase spirituality in the population and strengthen the spiritual ties under the motto "A church on every plot." Where you thought you would get a daycare or a road junction - you'll get a church. Yes, it's like that at my house - outside my window they are building one right now, instead of repairing the traffic lights. There are queues every morning, but never mind the junction! We need a church and nothing more. Well, just forget it, you will understand for yourselves in due time.

 

Ah, I almost forgot: you will of course pay the bill for the construction - as surely as amen in the church. The City Administration in Elektrostal, who came up with this spiritual innovation, will teach you how it works.

 

Well, now that we're on the subject of bills. We have a large housing reform in the works. Ten years and counting. And the next lap is just coming up. So soon, the rent of your apartment will be increased to over 800 dollars a month.

 

And then, all the benefits! You have probably already received financial compensation for the withdrawal of your benefits? Have you not? I see... I'm actually jealous of you. So many interesting discoveries await you!

 

By the way, exercises on the theme "disperse gatherings of disgruntled pensioners", our Dzerzjinskij division conducted those five years ago already. Rest assured that they will be happy to share their experiences with your Berkut unit.

 

But small matters like the confiscation of the best locations for palaces and mansions, the redistribution of business - all of them! - demolitions and arson against apartment buildings in order to build shopping centers and so on, and so on, and so on, well, I will not go into that. Nor tax offices, health centers, fire stations, prosecutors' offices, police stations, security service's local offices, municipal administrations and so on, and so on, and so on. You get most of you income from tourism down there, right? Oh, forget all about that that, just forget it. This is what we call "bad dreaming business". Forget that too. You will get used to it.

 

Oh yes, speaking of tourism - you have hotels, right? Right on the coast? On the whole Crimea? Nevermind, nevermind. Soon there will no longer any hotels right on the coast in Crimea.

 

But there will be a wonderful dacha for Governor Aleksandr Tkatjov! A dacha for Defence, Sergei Sjojgu! Dachas for all senators! Dachas ate all the deputies! Dachas for all the generals! And after them the whole Central Committee and all the prosecutors! Just think of all the yachts that will anchor at all private piers! Just think of all the enclosures will be built on your sea front!

 

You will have to be content with the municipal beach in Sevastopol.

 

By the way, I recommend that you learn the advertising slogans "You have many, I have one!" and "A cash register for all!" of the Russian postal service, Sberbank, the pensioners insurance fund, social services - it's all yours. Congrats.

 

Ah, that's right, yes: Sberbank, the savings bank. Again, you are in incredible luck - they have just launched a new round of pension reforms. Before, no could figure out how to calculate the pensions, and now makes it even less sense - if at all there will be any.

 

You might as well learn two additional concepts: CTO, which stands for Counter Terror Operation, and hexogen. This is important. For real. And in future, try to avoid places with other people, train stations, airports - well, especially train stations and airports - bus stations, markets, concerts and crowds in general.

 

If you still have to fly, make sure to be at the airport three hours in advance. At each entrance, there will be check points. Better not joke with the guards. Shave off your beard. Lighten your hair. Turn your pockets inside out and let them frisk you when they tell you. Never - never! - leave home without identification documents.

 

Yes, don't forget sanctions from our international friends, that is to say, our new enemies. You guys are in Russia now.

 

And then a few tiny matters. Well, a bunch of them, really:

 

It is prohibited to protest in Russia.

 

It is prohibited to resist the unlawful arrest and unlawful detention.

 

It is prohibited for regions to be autonomous. It is forbidden to leave the Russian federation. Separatism is prohibited.

 

It is prohibited for foreigners to adopt Russian children.

 

It is prohibited to propagate homosexuality.

 

It is prohibited for Madonna and Lady Gaga to perform.

 

It is prohibited to put up unauthorized posters.

 

The television network Dozjd is prohibited.

 

Any day now, online money will be prohibited.

 

Prices in Moscow is twice as high as in Kiev. On everything.

 

And, finally, for us (and now also for you), it is forbidden to sell alcohol from eleven at night till eight in the morning. The Sobriety Act, you see.

 

In short, welcome home.

 

Arkady Babtjenko

 

 

 

Wow this is a very concerning post about life in the Russian federation, I'm hoping some of it is just propaganda. But some of it is truth as well 

 

 

It is in my understanding all true, but it isn't whole truth and all facts are told only from point of view that serves writer's message, but underlining message is at least true, meaning that Crimeans in all probably will face culture shock in some degree and start to lose their autonomy bit by bit.

[Sarex]

Wow this is a very concerning post about life in the Russian federation, I'm hoping some of it is just propaganda. But some of it is truth as well 

 

Burce aren't you going to ask for a source, or some link so you can prove it's not a lie. I thought you had a big speech about how you were all about truth now.

[213374U]

 

Wow this is a very concerning post about life in the Russian federation, I'm hoping some of it is just propaganda. But some of it is truth as well 

 

Burce aren't you going to ask for a source, or some link so you can prove it's not a lie. I thought you had a big speech about how you were all about truth now.

 

 

Nah. It's just the latest example of the intellectual circle jerk that some people engage in, here. Something somebody doubly translated from somewhere on the internet, without links, without references, without anything is perfectly fine, but the opinions and experiences of forum members that are either Russian or have lived in Russia are ignored, hand waved as propaganda, or dismissed as "not knowing what they are talking about" or having vested interests.

 

Don't despair, though—it's a well known phenomenon. Reminded me of something I read some time ago, in fact. Nothing new here, move along.

[Elerond]

 

Wow this is a very concerning post about life in the Russian federation, I'm hoping some of it is just propaganda. But some of it is truth as well 

 

Burce aren't you going to ask for a source, or some link so you can prove it's not a lie. I thought you had a big speech about how you were all about truth now.

 

 

http://www.dn.se/kultur-noje/kulturdebatt/valkomna-till-ryssland-kara-krimbor/

 

There is original article in Swedish newspaper and original writer is Arkadij Babtjenko, here is link to Russian wikipedia about him. He has published books about his experiences in Chechen Wars and works as journalist and  war correspondent for Novaya Gazeta

Edited April 7, 2014 by Elerond

[BruceVC]

 

 

Wow this is a very concerning post about life in the Russian federation, I'm hoping some of it is just propaganda. But some of it is truth as well 

 

Burce aren't you going to ask for a source, or some link so you can prove it's not a lie. I thought you had a big speech about how you were all about truth now.

 

 

http://www.dn.se/kultur-noje/kulturdebatt/valkomna-till-ryssland-kara-krimbor/

 

There is original article in Swedish newspaper and original writer is Arkadij Babtjenko, here is link to Russian wikipedia about him. He has published books about his experiences in Chechen Wars and works as journalist and  war correspondent for Novaya Gazeta

 

 

Nice post, sorry Sarex and 2133 guess you will just have to accept this one

[Malcador]

 

Arkady Babtjenko

 

 

 

This traitor change side yet long ago and become pro-jihadist russophobic propagandist . He also is ethnic Ukrainian with butthurt after last events. He is not  truthful source of information.

example of his texts

https://www.facebook.com/babchenkoa/posts/463943983705840

Here he do want NATO war against Russia. Imagine similar thing in US - some American "journalist" demand from China and Russia begin war against US and destroy your homeland. What reaction to such character can be in US? Russians just ignore this idiot.

 

 

 

The EU is eggs ?  Hm, suspect a translation failure there.

[Sarex]

Nice post, sorry Sarex and 2133 guess you will just have to accept this one

 

Troll away Bruce, troll away.

[213374U]

 

 

 

Wow this is a very concerning post about life in the Russian federation, I'm hoping some of it is just propaganda. But some of it is truth as well 

 

Burce aren't you going to ask for a source, or some link so you can prove it's not a lie. I thought you had a big speech about how you were all about truth now.

 

 

http://www.dn.se/kultur-noje/kulturdebatt/valkomna-till-ryssland-kara-krimbor/

 

There is original article in Swedish newspaper and original writer is Arkadij Babtjenko, here is link to Russian wikipedia about him. He has published books about his experiences in Chechen Wars and works as journalist and  war correspondent for Novaya Gazeta

 

 

Nice post, sorry Sarex and 2133 guess you will just have to accept this one

 

 

Unlike yourself, I'm not in the business of accepting or rejecting anything based solely on how much lube it needs to fit in with my preconceptions.