Uganda Criminalizes Homosexuality

[BruceVC]

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/24/world/africa/uganda-anti-gay-bill/index.html

 

What can I say...what can I say. Its appalling, shocking and unacceptable but the Ugandan president has signed the bill into law.

The West should  immediately cut any and all aid to Uganda. Apart from the obvious issues I have with this legislation there is the following

 

• The member states of the African Union are suppose to adhere to the African Charter of Human rights which says you can't discriminate against people around points like there sexual orientation. So this is yet another example of the failure of the AU to pressure countries to stick to the manifesto of the AU that they agreed to. No wonder Africa keeps failing to achieve its true potential
• I am always amazed that countries that suffered under colonialism and racism are keen to pass laws that allow them to discriminate against other  minority groups, my how we forget our past. Hypocrisy anyone ?

 

Well done Uganda for this  step into anachronism

[Malcador]

Wonder if it's popular with Ugandans generally.

[BruceVC]

Wonder if it's popular with Ugandans generally.

 

It is broadly supported. But what has that got  to do with morality of putting people in jail for consensual sex? In Rwanda the majority of people also supported the genocide and in Cambodia the Khmer Rouge also had popular support.

Edited February 24, 2014 by BruceVC

[Monte Carlo]

 

 

I am always amazed that countries that suffered under colonialism and racism are keen to pass laws that allow them to discriminate against other  minority groups, my how we forget our past.

 

Please re-read Animal Farm. The formerly oppressed are entirely capable of turning to oppression. And now, of course, we have Putin the new world champion of 'Traditional Values.' stalking the world stage like a 'B' Movie villain, giving credence to the ignorant.

[Malcador]

 

Wonder if it's popular with Ugandans generally.

 

It is broadly supported. But what has that got  to do with morality of putting people in jail for consensual sex? In Rwanda the majority of people also supported the genocide and in Cambodia the Khmer Rouge also had popular support.

 

 

Okay, a bit of a leap to go from a law jailing people for being homosexual to two genocides.  If it's widely supported, then beating them with the stick might not help reverse their decision, sadly.

[BruceVC]

 

I am always amazed that countries that suffered under colonialism and racism are keen to pass laws that allow them to discriminate against other  minority groups, my how we forget our past.

 

Please re-read Animal Farm. The formerly oppressed are entirely capable of turning to oppression. And now, of course, we have Putin the new world champion of 'Traditional Values.' stalking the world stage like a 'B' Movie villain, giving credence to the ignorant.

 

 

Good point around Animal Farm and another thing that really frustrates me is some of these African countries have these corrupt governments that squander the resources and the majority of people live in extreme poverty. But the blame for there situation often falls on Western countries and Colonialism. And yet when they get the chance to focus on economic reform what do they do...they pass a law to discriminate against a minority group. And because the average citizen of the country is ignorant and the AU is utterly impotent they get away with it  

[BruceVC]

 

 

Wonder if it's popular with Ugandans generally.

 

It is broadly supported. But what has that got  to do with morality of putting people in jail for consensual sex? In Rwanda the majority of people also supported the genocide and in Cambodia the Khmer Rouge also had popular support.

 

 

Okay, a bit of a leap to go from a law jailing people for being homosexual to two genocides.  If it's widely supported, then beating them with the stick might not help reverse their decision, sadly.

 

 

Never underestimate the impact of sanctions, it played a major part in ending Apartheid

[Malcador]

Somehow I can't see it getting that wide ranging for this issue.  President said that they don't need the US aid for HIV/AIDS and that they can raise the money elsewhere, heh.  But he could also be full of it.  

 

Not giving them money is fine, not really actively trying to influence their internal policies in that case.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I read the title as BruceVC criminalizes Homosexuality. I think I would benefit from a nap.

[BruceVC]

Somehow I can't see it getting that wide ranging for this issue.  President said that they don't need the US aid for HIV/AIDS and that they can raise the money elsewhere, heh.  But he could also be full of it.  

 

Not giving them money is fine, not really actively trying to influence their internal policies in that case.

 

You right, I didn't mean to suggest full sanctions as that won't happen. But Obama has said this will sour relations and that's never a good thing for any African country. But Uganda has made its bed, now they need to lie in it. Oh and the Ugandan president is full of it

[Meshugger]

I wonder what the real problem is in Uganda, since these kinds of legislations is usually a scare-tactic by those in power to curtail the real problems in society.

[Orogun01]

I often find myself of two minds on issues like this; on one side I think laws targeting specific groups are a gross abuse of power and often they  are moot since the groups being targeted are often harmless. Not to say that you could just treat them lawfully without special measure just because of their choices.
On the other hand I dislike how the first world powers try to force their morality, it shows a disregard for the country's autonomy and it just comes off as condescending. Plus the political sanctions are useless since most of these countries are completely authoritarian or their electoral process corrupt (not that ours is any better). Sanctions might influence public opinions against their leaders but they have no real recourse, so in the end you penalize everyone in the country (gay and straight alike) while the leaders are the least affected.

I know this for a fact because of a freaking 40+ years embargo.

[Meshugger]

All the rest of the world needs to do is to grant political asylum for any homosexual Ugandian.

[JFSOCC]

I heard somewhere that powerful American Christian evangelical organisations are pushing for these laws throughout Africa.

[Nonek]

Well the way I see it is a group of people take offence at a private matter, in this case the politicians and conservative elements of Uganda judging homosexuals, and then proceed to enforce what they see as the "correct" way of living on others. It's a basic limiting of freedom and should not be allowed in any way, shape or form, hopefully it will be defeated at some point.

[213374U]

 

 

On the other hand I dislike how the first world powers try to force their morality, it shows a disregard for the country's autonomy and it just comes off as condescending. Plus the political sanctions are useless since most of these countries are completely authoritarian or their electoral process corrupt (not that ours is any better). Sanctions might influence public opinions against their leaders but they have no real recourse, so in the end you penalize everyone in the country (gay and straight alike) while the leaders are the least affected.

 

I'm not big on western social colonialism, but moral minimums. Seriously, moral relativism is the road to chaos.

 

I agree with your point on sanctions. It's always the little people that get the short end of the stick.

 

 

 

All the rest of the world needs to do is to grant political asylum for any homosexual Ugandian.

 

You'd have to extend that to any Ugandan. Unless you can test for homosexuality somehow.

[Monte Carlo]

I'm wondering if the new Cold War will be a sort of kulturkampf between 'Western' enlightenment values and a new Eastern conservatism that allows for an Orthodox / Muslim world-view.

 

I hope not.

[BruceVC]

ay

All the rest of the world needs to do is to grant political asylum for any homosexual Ugandian.

 

Funny enough South Africa has just granted a temporary work visa to a prominent Ugandan gay doctor who is also a gay activist so its already happening for skilled professionals, I just feel sorry for the unskilled gay Ugandans

 

http://mg.co.za/article/2014-02-20-ugandan-activist-granted-sa-work-permit/

[Meshugger]

 

All the rest of the world needs to do is to grant political asylum for any homosexual Ugandian.

 

You'd have to extend that to any Ugandan. Unless you can test for homosexuality somehow.

 

 

Science has all the answers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaginal_photoplethysmograph

 

There's of course a male version as well. Thank you Stephen Fry and QI for highlighting this important information.

[Amentep]

I wonder what the real problem is in Uganda, since these kinds of legislations is usually a scare-tactic by those in power to curtail the real problems in society.

 

At a guess a 90% IIRC conservative Christian population (42% Roman Catholic) combined with years of colonial anti-sodomy laws and - based on the homosexual death penalty law that was put to Parliament in the earlier version of the now signed bill - a belief that homosexuality is the root cause of HIV/AIDS.

[Orogun01]

I heard somewhere that powerful American Christian evangelical organisations are pushing for these laws throughout Africa.

I remeber watching Vanguard "missionaries of hate", it's a documentary about what you mentioned. Basically Christian missionaries went to Uganda, propagated their views and supported Uganda treatment of LGTB and when they got too extreme they denied anything ever happening.

I'm not big on western social colonialism, but moral minimums. Seriously, moral relativism is the road to chaos.

 

I agree with your point on sanctions. It's always the little people that get the short end of the stick.

Perhaps I should have explained myself better; I'm in no way in favor for moral relativism just moral liberty for everyone. My beef is with the methods of the West rather than with their ethics, I basically see it as "If you don't let us push our morality on you to stop you from pushing your morality on others we'll sanction you".

I don't believe that two wrongs make a right (although two negatives make a positive but that would be more like two bad guys killing each other; sorry I ramble)

[213374U]

 

 

All the rest of the world needs to do is to grant political asylum for any homosexual Ugandian.

 

You'd have to extend that to any Ugandan. Unless you can test for homosexuality somehow.

 

 

Science has all the answers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaginal_photoplethysmograph

 

There's of course a male version as well. Thank you Stephen Fry and QI for highlighting this important information.

 

 

 

Come on man, I leave everything set up for you to make a facile gaydar joke and you come up with... wtf is that, seriously. I just lost 1d6 SAN.

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

All the rest of the world needs to do is to grant political asylum for any homosexual Ugandian.

 

You'd have to extend that to any Ugandan. Unless you can test for homosexuality somehow.

 

 

Science has all the answers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaginal_photoplethysmograph

 

There's of course a male version as well. Thank you Stephen Fry and QI for highlighting this important information.

 

 

 

Come on man, I leave everything set up for you to make a facile gaydar joke and you come up with... wtf is that, seriously. I just lost 1d6 SAN.

 

 

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2seBEcJoPA and welcome to the internet. Enjoy your stay

 

The sad part is that i wouldn't be surprised if the Ugandian authorities have the very same devices for the wrong reasons

[HoonDing]

Let's just raid Entebbe once more.

[Monte Carlo]

Charles Bronson's finest hour. What a movie.