Fighter Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 Crimea's "Self Defence Force". Umm... Either they are... not. Or someone is giving them serious cash and support.
obyknven Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 Crimea's "Self Defence Force". Umm... Either they are... not. Or someone is giving them serious cash and support. Russians say these mens are "elfes", they await arriving of Ukrainian "orks" (Group Alfa), but orks suddenly stay at home. Probably they have too much allergy to elfes. Personally i think Crimea is analog of Renaissance Switzerland, many people from here work as merks. When in Ukraine **** happened they return to protects own homes. They have right to this.
alanschu Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) Not really... there is no point wasting time on trolls certain immature people tend to look for arguments to prove something in some grand battle ad nauseam, or get a rise out of you. For example: This has (hopefully) already been addressed, but then please ignore him and move on. When I think someone is just being a troll, it's what I do and it spares everyone any sort of constant derailment. And while I once thought that it was irresponsible to ignore trolls lest they spread their lies... I realized that that perspective maybe just isn't an accurate one. Tell you what, I will even state that I believe you and that you're the victim here. That whole post though is a part of the problem and there's no need to attempt to discredit him to win any arguments or anything. Thank you. Apologies for off topic and extra apologies if you've already done so, but I'm catching up and reading through all of this stuff and I'd much rather not filter through all of this nonsense when trying to find the actual discussion. Thank you. Edited February 28, 2014 by alanschu
Mor Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) These guys do not look like any kind of local irregulars. IMO. Either Russian special forces or Yanuk's personal guard.These guys(3:00) don't look or move like any special forces I seen, and this kid seems little small framed for the typical Russian grunt.. Also I'd be surprised if after all that Russian talk against foreign interventions over the past 6 years, they will take any action inside the sovereign nation of Ukraine. EDIT: although that didn't stop them from using a similar justification for sending troops into Georgia.. in 2008. (and using the same trick in at least 2 other regions) @alanschu, it is not about discredit, it is about trying to keep actual discussion on tracks without getting bogged down by the same arguments, because using ignore will net you with page full of collapsed posts. Also if you are looking for the actual discussion. go from the start until about the time Tagziel left. Edited February 28, 2014 by Mor
Malcador Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 Well within the sort of pseudo-sovereign state of Crimea anyway, no ? Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Mor Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 You refer to the region's autonomous status within Ukraine?
213374U Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 Well within the sort of pseudo-sovereign state of Crimea anyway, no ? Wouldn't be surprised if the net result of this were Crimea ending up like Transnistria. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Malcador Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 Maybe Russia can play it like Kosovo, stepping in to defend an ethnic group from those that would harm them Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Sarex Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) Maybe Russia can play it like Kosovo, stepping in to defend an ethnic group from those that would harm them That is not how it went with Kosovo. They chased the Serbs away from their homes(that was a very violent affair that is still happening in Kosovo), all the while they moved people from Albania to Kosovo, until they became the majority, at which point they called for independence. edit: But now that I think about it, yeah they(Americans) did go in with that excuse, though it was not that straight forward of an affair. Edited February 28, 2014 by Sarex "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP
Malcador Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 It never is, but I did say play it as if it were. Ah, the games the world plays. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Meshugger Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 Instead of this fake, alpha-male chest-bumping, can't they just hold elections in ukraine and crimea respectively? Because otherwise it will only lead to war and death, of which oby seems to have a hard-on for. 4 "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Fighter Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 Ukraine doesn't even allow Sevastopol to choose their own mayor. At least they didn't, ever since 1992 when one guy won on a separatist message.
Mor Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 Wouldn't be surprised if the net result of this were Crimea ending up like Transnistria.You mean like in other "breakaway" regions across the former Soviet Union, such as in Georgia's Abkhazia and South Ossetia and Moldova's Transnistria? Such intervention would be certainly labeled by russia as helping, defending or whatever bumper sticker that Putin daily slap on top. Surely nothing todo with establishing its dominance, arm wrestling the smaller player, maintaining economical monopoly over the EU and or political/military gains such as before. Although that strategically most important naval base in the Black Sea looks nice. Anyway, ignoring the Russian drumms of war (big deceleration by Russia and troops/ships movements), am I the only who think that the events are taken a little bit out of proportion? We had a few small scale ~5k-10k pro-Russian and pro-Ukrainian demonstrations, clashed among the two and one hostages crisis (am I missing something?)
obyknven Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) Because otherwise it will only lead to war and death, of which oby seems to have a hard-on for. War? U mad bro, Ukrainians can't into war. It will only lead to Great Ukrainian butthurt. Today Ukraine produce just tonns butthirt in Internets, our trolls (and our Master Dragon) so happy. <image deleted> Anyway if this is "Russian invasion" it must be most gentle and peaceful invasion in history of Humanity. Nobody harmed, everyone happy, "invaders" provide safety in trouble times. Citizens of Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan can only dreamed about such "invasions". Even new meme is borned - everyone call these unknown troopers as gentelmen, because of their mannered behaviour. Edited February 28, 2014 by Gorth Funny cartoon removed. Sorry, but no circumventing profanity through image based texts ;)
obyknven Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 Video: Crimean selfdefence capture Crimean ministry. For opressed people of Western world - it's video show how to free own country from corrupted neoliberal governments. http://youtu.be/wWGluhvL7JI Notice they break nothing, no harm to guards, by reports they have god mannered behaviour - they looks so different from Euromaidan thugs. Everyone call them "God mannered people" now.
Fighter Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) Muzychko aka "Sashko Biliy" ("Sashko the White") is spreading European values and democracy again by threatening to hang the new Minister of Interior Avakov because the latter said he would punish him for previous behavior (or so I'm told, my Ukrainian is limited). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMpm2q4tfOk Edited February 28, 2014 by Fighter
Tagaziel Posted February 28, 2014 Author Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) Anyway, ignoring the Russian drumms of war (big deceleration by Russia and troops/ships movements), am I the only who think that the events are taken a little bit out of proportion? We had a few small scale ~5k-10k pro-Russian and pro-Ukrainian demonstrations, clashed among the two and one hostages crisis (am I missing something?) http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/28/russia-crimea-white-house Armed, uniformed men who seized transportation and government centers in Crimea? There are also reports of military cargo planes flying in and columns of armored vehicles moving in. If this is Russia's doing, it's an act of war against an independent, sovereign state. Which is bad. http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/28/world/europe/ukraine-politics/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 More pictures. That rifle is the AK-74, M variant used by Russian Armed Forces. The camouflage pattern is that of the Russian Ratnik next-generation combat gear. The body armor and webbing also appear to be Russian (see here and here for reference). I'm scared. Even more shots. EDIT: There are about twenty of them. I've went through the photographs and there is a number of discrepancies. There are different types of combat webbing worn by the soldiers, ranging from plain beige, through black, to ones with U.S. Woodland camo. Different people wear different types of boots, something I wouldn't expect from an army with standardized equipment. One photograph shows a soldier without a rifle. I'm puzzled. It's possible that they may be an advance Russian force or a Crimean militia using Russian equipment mixed with purchased gear. Edited February 28, 2014 by Tagaziel 1 HMIC for: [ The Wasteland Wiki ] [ Pillars of Eternity Wiki ] [ Tyranny Wiki ]
obyknven Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/28/russia-crimea-white-house Armed, uniformed men who seized transportation and government centers in Crimea? There are also reports of military cargo planes flying in and columns of armored vehicles moving in. If this is Russia's doing, it's an act of war against an independent, sovereign state. Which is bad. Western lie! These men dressed quite different from each other, they don't look's "uniformed". Guns looks strange too, they more similar to mercs or local militia instead of regular troops. Yes, these journalists quite stupid. No proofs about Russian invasion exists, it's just hysteria of usurpers in Kiev, they have fear of rebellion, they fear lost everything, because they kill so much people for take of power. They fear punishment.
HoonDing Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 Danzig ist Deutsch Crimea is Russian. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
rjshae Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 The Russian military probably wants the naval base at Sevastopol back in their hands, but will have to grab and hold Crimea to do it. "It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."
Walsingham Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 Anyway, ignoring the Russian drumms of war (big deceleration by Russia and troops/ships movements), am I the only who think that the events are taken a little bit out of proportion? We had a few small scale ~5k-10k pro-Russian and pro-Ukrainian demonstrations, clashed among the two and one hostages crisis (am I missing something?) http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/28/russia-crimea-white-house Armed, uniformed men who seized transportation and government centers in Crimea? There are also reports of military cargo planes flying in and columns of armored vehicles moving in. If this is Russia's doing, it's an act of war against an independent, sovereign state. Which is bad. http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/28/world/europe/ukraine-politics/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 More pictures. That rifle is the AK-74, M variant used by Russian Armed Forces. The camouflage pattern is that of the Russian Ratnik next-generation combat gear. The body armor and webbing also appear to be Russian (see here and here for reference). I'm scared. Even more shots. EDIT: There are about twenty of them. I've went through the photographs and there is a number of discrepancies. There are different types of combat webbing worn by the soldiers, ranging from plain beige, through black, to ones with U.S. Woodland camo. Different people wear different types of boots, something I wouldn't expect from an army with standardized equipment. One photograph shows a soldier without a rifle. I'm puzzled. It's possible that they may be an advance Russian force or a Crimean militia using Russian equipment mixed with purchased gear. Thought I'd chip in here as well as anywhere. - Even if the men were soldiers turning up in their normal kit I'd expect the odd non-standard boot. Monte will back me up here. - This is a magnificent move by Kremlin-aligned forces (note I'm not saying ordered by the Kremlin). The number of men involved is actually tiny, but the press value is huge. Last I heard no-one had been killed, so a prompt military response might end up looking paradoxically weak. - The point of threatening the Crimea is firstly the strong ethnic Russian component (albeit a result of Stalin ethnic tidying), but much more importantly it boxes the Ukraine in. Whereas a free Ukrainian seaboard could lead to all sorts of shenanigans with foreign fleets peering into the Caucasus. 1 "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.
Tagaziel Posted February 28, 2014 Author Posted February 28, 2014 Thought I'd chip in here as well as anywhere. - Even if the men were soldiers turning up in their normal kit I'd expect the odd non-standard boot. Monte will back me up here. - This is a magnificent move by Kremlin-aligned forces (note I'm not saying ordered by the Kremlin). The number of men involved is actually tiny, but the press value is huge. Last I heard no-one had been killed, so a prompt military response might end up looking paradoxically weak. - The point of threatening the Crimea is firstly the strong ethnic Russian component (albeit a result of Stalin ethnic tidying), but much more importantly it boxes the Ukraine in. Whereas a free Ukrainian seaboard could lead to all sorts of shenanigans with foreign fleets peering into the Caucasus. Thanks Wals. I'm also puzzled by the guy without the rifle, but with some sort of handgun. I'm not sure how to treat this, as this might as well be a false flag operation. HMIC for: [ The Wasteland Wiki ] [ Pillars of Eternity Wiki ] [ Tyranny Wiki ]
Fighter Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 Take over of Crimea's ministry building (security cam). You can even see a 30 millimeter automatic grenade launcher carried inside at some point and tubed RPGs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWGluhvL7JI
Walsingham Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 BTW, how many months has Obama got left in his tenure? "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.
kgambit Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 BTW, how many months has Obama got left in his tenure? ~32 months until 2016 elections not counting the lag from the elections to the swearing in ceremony
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