Mor Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) You can't turn around a country in one year, I am not very optimistic about the current state of Serbia and I don't like the pro west attitude, but it's too early to call it bust.I agree with first sentence, but can you be more specific as to what exactly is this "pro west attitude" you have observed? Because to me most of European countries and North America are the "west", which give us a healthy mix of policies on every aspect of governance I can think off the top of my head, so I am little at loss here exactly what is the allure of the "east" ? Edited February 24, 2014 by Mor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obyknven Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Lol, some losers try repeat Euromaidan in Moscow today, but epic suck. Yeah, it's Russia baby, it's malicious society of evil creatures. Try stop us, we want play with our preys. http://youtu.be/hV4OauDpDCU Meanwhile our fearsome military forces in Crimea awake and begin movement. http://youtu.be/CWsv4-drjuQ We send moar and moar troops in Crimea and to Ukrainian border, and recall our ambassador. Olympiad is over, nothing can stop us now. Canada and US fell in hysteria. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarex Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I agree with first sentence, but can you be more specific as to what exactly is this "pro west attitude" you have observed? Because to me most of European countries and North America are the "west", which give us a healthy mix of policies on every aspect of governance I can think off the top of my head, so I am little at loss here exactly what is the allure of the "east" ? Ah, well, I would need to convince you that the picture the western newspaper paint of the east is not all that true and some other things, for which I am not currently in the mood to try. Sufficeive to say, I don't see the EU as our savior and we should not forget what they have done to us repeatedly in the past. "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilloutman Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) Yes EU is not some saint savior, but inviting Russian soldiers to sovereign country is act of treason. As for Obyknven: Edited February 24, 2014 by Chilloutman I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarex Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Yes EU is not some saint savior, but inviting Russian soldiers to sovereign country is act of treason. As opposed to American/NATO soldiers? "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fighter Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 This is what happens when you go from zero to billionaire. House of one of Yanuk's closest friends: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilloutman Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Yes EU is not some saint savior, but inviting Russian soldiers to sovereign country is act of treason. As opposed to American/NATO soldiers? Some news? Didnt heard about inviting NATO/US soldier to Ukraine to make them part of USA, but maybe I am mistaken I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Sufficeive to say, I don't see the EU as our savior and we should not forget what they have done to us repeatedly in the past. Yeah, I guess if anyone has reasons to be suspicious of the intentions of foreign powers, it would be the Balkan peoples. Austro-Hungary, Ottomans, Russians, Germans, NATO... you just can't seem to catch a break huh? This is what happens when you go from zero to billionaire. House of one of Yanuk's closest friends: My eyes! The goggles do nothing! - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fighter Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I don't know how anyone can live there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) Talk about gaudy. Would expect that to belong to some one from Dubai Edited February 24, 2014 by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarex Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Or the Queen of England. "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mor Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) I agree with first sentence, but can you be more specific as to what exactly is this "pro west attitude" you have observed? Because to me most of European countries and North America are the "west", which give us a healthy mix of policies on every aspect of governance I can think off the top of my head, so I am little at loss here exactly what is the allure of the "east" ? Ah, well, I would need to convince you that the picture the western newspaper paint of the east is not all that true and some other things, for which I am not currently in the mood to try. Sufficeive to say, I don't see the EU as our savior and we should not forget what they have done to us repeatedly in the past. We can keep it light. For example I think we can agree that media in general(not just newspapers) and not just Western is biased. So just like the "Western" newspaper, "Eastern" newspaper paint a poor picture of the West, which is not all that true. (btw I am Russian speaker so I am familiar with both sides) Also surely you will agree that the "west" is not homogeneous, it comprised of many countries, many of who tend to disagree, a lot. Even within those country you can find all points of view reflected by different news outlets( e.g. USA: FoxNews vs Cnn). However, this is not the case for in the "east", where freedom of press is very limited e.g. in Russian news are nationalized and censored, so instead of being exposed to all points of view you are mostly feed with Putin daily... I think this map illustrate this point very well.(note Russia is ranked just above Zimbabwe). p.s. how I hate the terms Westren and Eastren... Edited February 24, 2014 by Mor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agiel Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 This is what happens when you go from zero to billionaire. House of one of Yanuk's closest friends: It looks like they got an Mi-26 to lift a portion of the Versailles palace and flew it all the way to Ukraine. Quote “Political philosophers have often pointed out that in wartime, the citizen, the male citizen at least, loses one of his most basic rights, his right to life; and this has been true ever since the French Revolution and the invention of conscription, now an almost universally accepted principle. But these same philosophers have rarely noted that the citizen in question simultaneously loses another right, one just as basic and perhaps even more vital for his conception of himself as a civilized human being: the right not to kill.” -Jonathan Littell <<Les Bienveillantes>> Quote "The chancellor, the late chancellor, was only partly correct. He was obsolete. But so is the State, the entity he worshipped. Any state, entity, or ideology becomes obsolete when it stockpiles the wrong weapons: when it captures territories, but not minds; when it enslaves millions, but convinces nobody. When it is naked, yet puts on armor and calls it faith, while in the Eyes of God it has no faith at all. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete." -Rod Serling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Or the Queen of England. Hm, was going to disagree and say the English would have gone for something a bit subtler. But interiors at Windsor and Buckingham are pretty flash. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obyknven Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Odessa. Ukrainian Antifa beat Right sector. http://youtu.be/OPQ_RCNRW20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarex Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) We can keep it light. For example I think we can agree that media in general(not just newspapers) and not just Western is biased. So just like the "Western" newspaper, "Eastern" newspaper paint a poor picture of the West, which is not all that true. (btw I am Russian speaker so I am familiar with both sides) Also surely you will agree that the "west" is not homogeneous, it comprised of many countries, many of who tend to disagree, a lot. Even within those country you can find all points of view reflected by different news outlets( e.g. USA: FoxNews vs Cnn). However, this is not the case for in the "east", where freedom of press is very limited e.g. in Russian news are nationalized and censored, so instead of being exposed to all points of view you are mostly feed with Putin daily... I think this map illustrate this point very well.(note Russia is ranked just above Zimbabwe). p.s. how I hate the terms Westren and Eastren... Yeah when I said "newspaper" I meant the media in general. You see I know first hand how the Western media out right lies about things, that I can only imagine it's government tells it to do. The whole Bosnian war was a very one sided affair as far as the the whole West was conserned. What you need to understand is that America has perfected the art of propaganda and thus it now wields the most potent weapon in the world, the media. Let me further explain that. Hollywood is a big propaganda machine and here is why, 90% of the tv shows I watched (exluding comedies (though it even happens in them if you can believe it)) have an episode in them where the big bad guys come from Serbia, the most resent example was the latest series of Sherlock, the one, for an example, that baffled me the most is Psych, a comedy about a detective who pretends to be a psychic in a small town, in the episode I am referencing Serbian mobsters come and try to kill everybody, Hawaii 5-0 as the most blatant where they also mention Serbian mobsters who kill women and children for fun, and so so so many more. Movies aren't an exception, when Arabs and Russians get old they bring in the good old Serbs. But in all of these shows Americans are the heroes, which stands to reason as they produce it. Now why is all of this important, because it paints a picture to the western world about how bad the East is and how good the West is. So when the media tells them something horrible about anyone from the east it's not that far of a jump for them to make. An example is how people think Russia has horrible living conditions and how it's a terrible place to visit, when nothing can be further from the truth. But why can't the Eastern media do the same? Well it can and it does, but to a much lesser degree and effect. Why? Because the same movies and tv shows from Hollywood are being watched all over the world and that is the brilliance of it. Now for the west not being homogeneous, well from everything I have seen so far it seems to me that it's what America says the rest of the west does. Even when they don't agree they end up doing it. Let me guess without looking at the map, the west is free press, the east is not. Ok let me ask you a question. When wiki leaks released the apache helicopter mowing down civilians how many news outlets covered it, how many of them condemned the US army and most importantly, how long did the media coverage last? The American press is not free at all, nor is the western as the Snowden incident proved. Every news outlet is beholden to it's government and it's foolish to think otherwise. edit: as for the whole west vs. east thing, well I have a 5 part documentary that touches on that and the things we mentioned here and much more. But be warned, it's very hard to watch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CFLpZcY3ss http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pAmhsqqQqE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeTe2GbjiTc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4Z-AK_FTEY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDUOHlVYTXo Edited February 24, 2014 by Sarex 1 "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarex Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 This one is more to the point about what we where talking about. The second half touches on media and tv. "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 "What you need to understand is that America has perfected the art of propaganda and thus it now wields the most potent weapon in the world, the media." This must explain the US's sterling reputation throughout the world. It must also explain why plenty of Amerikans flat out bash their country. Why do you make stuff up? 2 DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Lying pro-government media exposed on live TV : http://www.nationalreview.com/article/371778/ukraine-changed-forever-live-tv-john-fund One of these days someone should do that to the US lying pro-government media. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obyknven Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Right sector began persecution of political opponents http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a4b_1393245189 Integrate them into EU, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) "What you need to understand is that America has perfected the art of propaganda and thus it now wields the most potent weapon in the world, the media." This must explain the US's sterling reputation throughout the world. It must also explain why plenty of Amerikans flat out bash their country. Why do you make stuff up? Okay this must be one of the first times I am completely agreeing with you..I am a lttle stunned. But good and valid point Edited February 25, 2014 by BruceVC "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarex Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 "What you need to understand is that America has perfected the art of propaganda and thus it now wields the most potent weapon in the world, the media." This must explain the US's sterling reputation throughout the world. It must also explain why plenty of Amerikans flat out bash their country. Why do you make stuff up? Oh? Well you can't start wars with "half" of the world and expect everyone to love you. Also I thought that American soldiers are considers heroes in America and anyone who says anything against them is a traitor? Is America not the greatest country to it's people, even if there are better countries then it. They are using propaganda on their own people, for the rest, if need be, they have the military spending budget. "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) Lying pro-government media exposed on live TV : http://www.nationalreview.com/article/371778/ukraine-changed-forever-live-tv-john-fund One of these days someone should do that to the US lying pro-government media. Sure, the day Larry King interviews Edward Snowden on CNN. Oh, wait... Lol "free press". Okay this must be one of the first times I am completely agreeing with you..I am a lttle stunned. But good and valid point That should raise all sorts of red flags by itself. Just saying... Edited February 25, 2014 by 213374U 2 - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 "What you need to understand is that America has perfected the art of propaganda and thus it now wields the most potent weapon in the world, the media." This must explain the US's sterling reputation throughout the world. It must also explain why plenty of Amerikans flat out bash their country. Why do you make stuff up? Wait, you believe the US media isn't part of any propaganda efforts ? Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mor Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) That is a strawmen argument. He didn't said that US or any other country for that matter, try to influencing the attitude of others toward its cause or position. What is being said that in the US and other western countries you also have free media which show opposing points of view(it is allowed not to agree with government on everything). Everyone, even you can sta"spread the word" as long as its not some kind of hate speech.(iirc Algazira started broadcasting in the US) While in countries such as Russia you are spoon feed the government propaganda. Edited February 25, 2014 by Mor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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