Need quirkiness

[grubwort]

Hi there

 

I heard about Pillars of Eternity about 6 hours ago, checked it out about an hour ago, and now I've thrown my money at you.

 

There are many things that I love about RPGs, needs that I am confident will be fully satiated by this game, but the one desperate desire I wish to express this: give me one or two memorable and, hopefully, utterly mad (but in a nice way) characters.

 

My favourite part of playing Baldur's Gate, and this is one of the best games I've ever played so there was a lot to love, was directing dearest Minsc, and his mighty Space Hamster Boo. I don't know how many times I heard him shout "Go for the eyes, Boo, GO FOR THE EYES!" but it just never got old. The thought of this Juggernaut and his two-handed death-dealing sword, tenderly taking care of a hamster (who was obviously a total badass, but no-one was capable of understanding his full badassness) made Minsc one of my fondest characters from ANY game I have ever played.

 

Please ensure that I have at least one character, he needn't be epic in any way (the rest of the team will just have to cover), that can give me the warm fuzzies and the constant mirth that that poor, deluded, insanely strong and gentle madman gave me all those years ago.

 

Much love

 

 

[Osvir]

Hello and welcome!

Minsc is indeed a great character in my opinion. Easily recognized and easily memorable. Was probably really fun to write him too. With that said I don't want a full-on comedy character though, but I wouldn't mind some quirkiness every now and then from the characters or companions. Comedic situations and dialogue, choices and good laughs really.

EDIT: Whilst we are on the subject of Minsc I recall an idea that I want to bring up to light again.

Concept, Flashbacks:
- Meet Minsc & Dynaheir in Nashkel
- Talking to Minsc you'll hear him boasting how he saved Dynaheir
- Choose to do so and you are taken to a Flashback Session, you are at the bridge as Minsc (Solo) at the Kobold keep and you'll have to save Dynaheir as only Minsc.
- When you finish this "Flashback Quest" you'll get the option to recruit Minsc+Dynaheir

Edited January 14, 2014 by Osvir

[HangedMan]

Minsc was pretty amusing. I'd definitely like to see some quirky characters in this game. They need not even be on the team per se; maybe a recurring NPC? In Neverwinter Nights 2, the sort of... absent-minded Aldanon fulfilled that sort of role, at least for me, briefly.

[LegioCorvus]

I think everyone loved Minsc, but it's important to remember that the character wasn't great because he was quirky, but because he was well written. 

 

Kind of like Edwin Odesseiron.  There are plenty of examples of the subtly evil and backstabbing wizard trope running around in fantasy settings, and I can't stand most of them.  Edwin I find to be an exception due to his great writing.  Even though he wanted to kill Dynaheir and tormented Minsc relentlessly about it, I kept him around because he entertained me and he seemed to actually have my back as long as our goals aligned.

 

I think when someone tries to create someone 'like Minsc,' it's pretty easy to fall into the trap of creating a character that's quirky and super annoying in a 'Penguin of DOOM!' kind of way.  Not that I don't trust the team to create great writing; I just don't think they should force in areas where it won't fit.

[grubwort]

Amen, Brothers.

 

A character 'like Minsc' would not be easy to craft. One could easily produce someone who's just totally Chaotic Neutral And Annoying, but without any emotional substance.

 

What enchanted me was the man's psychology, which was beautifully mad. I never cared much for Dynaheir (a useful Magic User, to be sure), but Minsc sure did, and Boo was willing to suffer her presence.

 

I think that what I'm trying to say is that I don't need EPIC BADASS. I want story, and character, and I need laughter (and I need to be laughing at some madmen while I go). The world is far too full of EPIC, and every character is far too BADASS. I just like to laugh and play. 

 

Look, look.

See grubwort Play

See grubwort Laugh and Play

Grubwort likes to Laugh and Play

 

Hugs

[LadyCrimson]

I think I'm one of the few who isn't that enamored of Minsc. Don't get me wrong, I liked the Boo bit and he was funny, but it got old fast. I was more the Xan type - no idea why, but I found his moroseness hilarious. 

 

But I totally know what you mean. A companion can be a lot more memorable if they have a personality quirk or two, that one either finds giggles amusing or at least highly relatable in some fashion. They don't have to be over the top, but I certainly enjoy chrs. who feel like they stand out.

[Kjaamor]

I liked Minsc first time around, and I loved Jan second time around. However I couldn't stand Morte from Torment. The subtleties of the characters played a big part, but I think an equally significant factor was that I had the option of taking Minsc or Jan, but was pretty much railroaded into taking Morte.

 

Quirky characters can be great when well-written, but I think they always work best as an option. Since P:E has a relatively small companion pool, I'd argue against going in for any Jan/Minsc-style heavy quirkiness - although some Edwin quirkiness should fit in just fine.

[ddillon]

I think everyone loved Minsc

No. Not me. He isn't as bad as Virgil in Arcanum tho.

 

If a 'quirky' character like Minsc or Virgil is present, only comic content and a personal quest and companion interactions should be tied to accepting that character as a party member. I don't want to miss interesting game content because I prefer not to have a dolt in the party (as in Arcanum). Nor do I want to be forced to take a 'quirky' character because I desperately need a fighter or mage, but that shouldn't be an issue if we can create our own companions as promised.

 

A flavor of quirky more akin to Dandelion from TW2 or HK-47 from KotOR or Morte from P:T might be acceptable (quirky but not idiotic is what I'm thinking), or perhaps characters like Mission Vao from KotOR or Alistair from DA:O that have a strong sense of humor but aren't walking jokes, but I'm wary of 'comic relief' characters in general.

Edited January 17, 2014 by ddillon

[Wolfenbarg]

Minsc is kind of all shtick. Edwin, on the other hand, was very surprising in his many interactions with the world despite how much he stuck to his basic character type. When you have the two together in a party, I was never at all surprised by anything Minsc did (barring one rare banter where he actually feels some concern about the all the head wounds he's sustaining), so he just kind of got old for me. Edwin on the other hand I love more and more every time I decide to bring him along because he feels more real. When I run into banters I hadn't seen before, they'll usually make me laugh, while I feel like I've already seen everything Minsc had to offer not long after he left his cell.

 

Morte was very different. There's more to him than is evident at first, and his story is tied pretty deeply with your own. He's a lot like Atton. He appears to be one thing, but he's really just hiding that he's something else entirely. I'd rather not have anything like a floating skull around in this game though just because of the fact that I know the world won't react to the fact that there's a floating skull and everyone needs to run or kill it immediately. It worked fine enough in Sigil since everything was so strange, but not in a more grounded world like Eternity is shaping up to have.

 

 

 

Mission Vao

Gods no. Never again. Ever.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Wolfenbarg

[Quetzalcoatl]

I much prefer three-dimensional comic relief characters whose funniness stems naturally from their character (i.e. Nordom's identity crisis, Morte's guilt). I found Minsc to be painfully unfunny. 

[JFSOCC]

when minsc broke out of his cage the first time, it wasn't because I was trying to find a smart way to release him, let's leave it at that.

[Noviere]

A flavor of quirky more akin to Dandelion from TW2 or HK-47 from KotOR or Morte from P:T might be acceptable (quirky but not idiotic is what I'm thinking), or perhaps characters like Mission Vao from KotOR or Alistair from DA:O that have a strong sense of humor but aren't walking jokes, but I'm wary of 'comic relief' characters in general.

 

I couldn't agree more. 

 

I haven't played the BG games in over a decade, but Minsc is basically just a catch phrase in my mind now. I'm sure there is more to him than that(I do recall a few details), but "Go for the eyes Boo" overshadows everything else. I suppose HK-47 is dangerously close to falling into the same category, but I dunno... Minsc was just very silly, and one note. 

[Blarghagh]

when minsc broke out of his cage the first time, it wasn't because I was trying to find a smart way to release him, let's leave it at that.

 

"Yeah, um... perhaps we should... split up?" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[PhroX]

Yeah, I don't mind Minsc, but I'm not a massive fan of his either. Ultimately, i don't want a particular "type" of character, I just want well written, believable ones. I'd take a well written "boring" character, than a forced in "comic relief" anyday.

[Karine]

This thread reminded me of a PC Gamer interview from last December:

 

PC Gamer: I've been playing BG2 recently, and one of the things it reminded me of was that a lot of those games could be really weird at times, with a funny edge to certain quests. Is there a desire to recapture that spirit as well?

Josh: We don't want to kill the player's immersion or anything like that, but we also don't want to make this the world of seriousness all the time. We do try to use strange events and characters; very distinctive and memorable stuff so that when you're going through the world - especially a big city like Defiance Bay, which is our first big city - you feel like it is diverse, and has a lot of memorable characters in it and funny moments and goofy things that you get into. Yeah, I think we'll stop short of a bunch of pop culture references and stuff like that. We want the world to feel serious, but if a world and a story doesn't have moments of levity and silliness in it, it just becomes oppressive, and that's not really what we're going for.

 

So yeah, unless they've completely changed their plans within a month there will definitely be some quirky characters.

[Nonek]

Personally i'm in favour of fine witticisms, ribaldry and the cut and thrust of barbed and subtle wordplay. Not so much a fan of the broad squeeing humour that one finds in most games of the current period, it quickly grows tiresome. I thought the introduction of Gannayev was very well done for instance, while intensely disliking Veronica's constant cutesy cries for attention, and that painfully nasal whine.

 

I prefer the deeper characters rather than the endless repetition of desperate one liners.

[IndiraLightfoot]

And speaking of nasal whine. Need I bring up Neeshka, the queen of nasal hells?

[nikolokolus]

No you didn't need to bring up Neeshka ...

 

Thanks for that.

[IndiraLightfoot]

I know that feeling. I think she broke the immersion in coming across as far too much a modern day spoiled brat with a chip on her shoulder (that two-timer ex of hers).

[FlintlockJazz]

I loved Minsc but couldn't stand HK-47 (but then I never got into KotOR in general) so I can see things from both sides.  Really, the thing with Minsc is that you rarely got anything more than the one-liners in Baldur's Gate 1 and in Baldur's Gate 2 most of the interaction was via banter so it worked there as the player kinda filled in the blanks, but in a game with a lot more dialogue and interaction then it may not work so well. 

[IndiraLightfoot]

Also, oddly enough, Qara felt like a carbon copy of Neeshka, but with no tail and with a more fiery temperament. Still that bratty presence that I really hope we will be spared in PE. I don't think that kind of brattiness translates as strong, independent young women with talents in spades.

Edited January 17, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Walsingham]

I loved the quirkiness aspect. But isn't this a bit late to be throwing requirements at the devs?

[Noviere]

I loved the quirkiness aspect. But isn't this a bit late to be throwing requirements at the devs?

 

I don't think it's too late. Josh said the following on December 10:

 

While we do design our companions relatively early in development, we don't write them until we get closer to the end (e.g. I just started writing the first companion literally this morning). We ignore them completely as far as the crit path design of the game is concerned because they are all optional. Developing them later allows us to be much more reactive to the final designs of quests and areas.

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