Update #68: ART!

[lolaldanee]

Wow, I love the city concepts Polina! I'm glad the second big city is looking more non-traditional.

i second this, the second city is looking very nice so far

[Suen]

The trolls are also really difficult to discern. Maybe it's just the way the screenshot came out, but they look like murky, shapeless masses. I thought the models from the GDC slides also appeared too drab and easy for the eye to slide off of, although not quite to this extent. It feels a bit patronizing to say this to experienced developers, but maybe incorporate more of Valve's advice for DOTA 2 character design in your creatures and NPCs and see if you can make them pop more without going too cartoonish: http://media.steampowered.com/apps/dota2/workshop/Dota2CharacterArtGuide.pdf

I guess they will use something like that to improve the sense of prospective. But they are still in prealpha, so the special effects will come later?

On the right side, a quick and dirty photoshop simulation of the gradient effect (35% opacity).

Slightly different saturation. Increased, because the gradient made the trolls too grey.

[Sensuki]

It was a bit misleading because on both world maps, Twin Elms was not using a 'city' icon.

 

I imagine that it's a bit smaller than Defiance Bay population and perhaps breadth wise, but a Suldanesselar or Lothlorien style city with multiple maps is a very appealing idea.

 

The location of both cities on the map does also add to the 'Fallout-y-ness' style that Obsidian was looking for regarding progression through the game.

 

With the Dyrford encompassing the lower level content and the Stronghold being 'granted' before the end of the first chapter I wonder whether the player will be able to go to Twin Elms before Defiance Bay, as it is located pretty much between both of them.

 

Gilded Vale kinda seems like the 'Trademeet' of Eternity.

[Vortis]

Hi,

 

Areas are very nicely detailed, just one thing for me they look a bit to 'plastic' but it's my taste. About the concept art i would say that the guy is very lucky with his drawings, they mix common sense with fantasy the right way. And for the trolls or other beast they can 'mingle?' with the countryside, lots of animals/beast have the power to do so and this can add a 'plus' in the game.

[Messier-31]

The location of both cities on the map

 

We know the world map. Do we know anything about how far will the gameplay go? Are those far-away places for future expansion purposes?

[Cubiq]

On the right side, a quick and dirty photoshop simulation of the gradient effect (35% opacity).

Slightly different saturation. Increased, because the gradient made the trolls too grey.

I prefer the left one, because you slightly lowered the value (light) of the trolls which lowered the contrast even more between them and the grass. I think they are harder to spot on the right one than on the left.

[Sensuki]

This is the current in-game map, it is a mockup and it is not the final one. I have labelled all of the areas, some of it is speculation. After thinking on it a bit the Outsource W Area between Dyrford and Valley of Hector is also probably a Vertical Slice map.

 

Edited November 27, 2013 by Sensuki

[WotanAnubis]

So glad the second big city isn't all brick and mortar and stone. It's nice to have a bit of variety.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Great, Sensuki! Somehow you've made a map that transcends the border between fantasy and reality, mapping the devs' areas of responsibility and where the two big cities are. Next you will crack the ecology code and show us where the various monster types have their habitats.

[Kronos]

Seriously… I want some trolls up in here not those things… One thing that irks me with a lot of games now is that monsters are called trolls, orcs, ogres, dragons, etc.; but then come out looking nothing like the classic depiction. These be trolls – Dum dum eat human, arggg…

 

[Prometheus]

This is the current in-game map, it is a mockup and it is not the final one. I have labelled all of the areas, some of it is speculation. After thinking on it a bit the Outsource W Area between Dyrford and Valley of Hector is also probably a Vertical Slice map.

 

Was it mentioned that the animat factory is in the valley of hector?

If you go by the world map, the stronghold is on the position of twin elms. And the two tree symbol is nearer to the abbey of the cloven wheel. But Because this is only a mockup you are likely right with your labels.

[Sensuki]

Great, Sensuki! Somehow you've made a map that transcends the border between fantasy and reality, mapping the devs' areas of responsibility and where the two big cities are. Next you will crack the ecology code and show us where the various monster types have their habitats.

 

I did not make the map, it's from Josh Sawyer's GDC Presentation. Art style is definitely Kazunori Aruga and the world map icons are likely photochops of ingame assets.

 

 

 

Was it mentioned that the animat factory is in the valley of hector?

 

No, not explicitly, but ...

 

If you look back to Chris Avellone's Rezzed presentation

 

 

 

The above area was cited in the presentation as an Animat Factory. There were only a handful of areas made for the Prototype and the concept of the original screenshot above has a large round room and two doorways like the one from the Valley of Hector.

 

We've also heard about Animats and seen their armor. This all happened before Production started - so the almost certain conclusion is that the Valley of Hector is the exterior map to the Animat Factory.

 

 

This is the current in-game map, it is a mockup and it is not the final one. I have labelled all of the areas, some of it is speculation. After thinking on it a bit the Outsource W Area between Dyrford and Valley of Hector is also probably a Vertical Slice map.

Was it mentioned that the animat factory is in the valley of hector?

If you go by the world map, the stronghold is on the position of twin elms. And the two tree symbol is nearer to the abbey of the cloven wheel. But Because this is only a mockup you are likely right with your labels.

 

I don't think the map is to scale, there are a bunch of other landmarks that are off as well, and the view is rather skewed, almost emulating the distance seeming smaller.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Sensuki

[Rabain]

The only point I'd make about the trolls is that the game is isometric, when you have a model that is hunched over it might look good during design but when you point the camera at it from above you just end up with something you can't see most of.

 

These trolls look great as models but the hunching kind of means I can't really see the face and lose a lot of the "size" to the viewing angle.  Look at the troll on the left, it could be any shape.  I don't mind the colours, it actually makes more sense for something that lives in the wilds.  If I get surprised by a group of trolls because I wasn't paying attention then its my own fault, I don't need them to glow in the dark to tell me they are there.

 

As for the area art I think it looks great, I don't really care about nitpicky things like trees that are in a row, I won't see that while wandering around and future tweaks will probably fix those things.  I feel sorry for the guys sometimes, they are trying to give us stuff ahead of time to feed our hunger for more content but really they wouldn't be showing anyone this stuff for months yet if it was a normal process.

 

Keep up the good work!

[Sensuki]

The hunching is an indication that the troll model was built from Skuldr assets as it has a similar size, look and stance. A while back they were talking about the re-use of assets especially in the rigging and animation areas, and this is the result.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63395-update-43-pretty-and-technical/

 

Then there is this nifty rig that was discussed a little bit, a couple updates ago — fricken’ Adam (PE's Executive Producer) always stealing my thunder! I think we call it the “stretch rig”. As he mentioned, it allows Dimitri, our dutiful Character Lead, to scale, even non-proportionally (with volume adjustments) meshes with the export rig already weighted. This way we can make a human character mesh, rig him to a human-proportioned skeleton, animate him, then take that same character and deform him to a new size and proportion, export him and use the same animations that were created for the human on this newly scaled/deformed mesh. This is a very useful asset multiplier, which allows us to leverage costly armor set and animation development across the spectrum of our races.

Even Character models hunch over at idle.

 

Edited November 27, 2013 by Sensuki

[Rabain]

There is human hunching and then there is troll hunching.  Bend the legs a bit more and the spine would be straighter with the face more horizontal than pointing downwards.  Trolls should be looking at each other rather than the ground.  I guess you could say it gives a better view of their prey which is usually smaller than them but it is a game after all and I'd prefer to see the monster than have it staring at the ground where I only see half its face or the back of its head.

 

Opinions may vary.

 

Humans are fine, we usually end up staring at the back of our parties heads for most of the game anyway...why we have portraits I guess.

[GerPronouncedGrr]

These trolls look great as models but the hunching kind of means I can't really see the face and lose a lot of the "size" to the viewing angle.  Look at the troll on the left, it could be any shape.  I don't mind the colours, it actually makes more sense for something that lives in the wilds.  If I get surprised by a group of trolls because I wasn't paying attention then its my own fault, I don't need them to glow in the dark to tell me they are there.

 

As for the area art I think it looks great, I don't really care about nitpicky things like trees that are in a row, I won't see that while wandering around and future tweaks will probably fix those things.  I feel sorry for the guys sometimes, they are trying to give us stuff ahead of time to feed our hunger for more content but really they wouldn't be showing anyone this stuff for months yet if it was a normal process.

 

I completely agree, and would further like to add that, 1) Trolls are depicted in traditional folklore as everything from monstrous to completely human looking. Trolls not looking 'trolly' enough is an extremely vague opinion, 2) Trolls are predatory creatures of the natural world. As Rabain stated, it makes total sense for them to be camoflaged and difficult for us to see all their details, and finally, 3) These are all still images. I cannot recall a single computer generated image that I have ever seen that didn't look fake and/or plastic as a still. But that doesn't mean they won't look amazing when in fluid motion. The human eye, as I think was previously mentioned in this thread somewhere, notices certain things much more readily than others. Constrast and silhouette are two of the major ones, but if I remember my army cadet science lessons correctly, motion is actually the primary source of stimulus for the human eye.

[teknoman2]

Seriously… I want some trolls up in here not those things… One thing that irks me with a lot of games now is that monsters are called trolls, orcs, ogres, dragons, etc.; but then come out looking nothing like the classic depiction. These be trolls – Dum dum eat human, arggg…

 

 

i dont see your point. the name may be the same, but it depicts something different depending on the world

in our world, trolls are people with a certain type of behaviour

in DnD, trolls are tall, slim humanoids, with long claws on their hands and average intelligence

in Middle Earth, trolls are dumb, fat, giants

in a certain children's show, trolls were tiny, cute and kind

[Bli1942]

The trolls look awesome color-wise, don't make them stick out any more. The fact that you might not notice them straight up makes it more interesting. They look like they are meant to be living in the forest ready to jump out at you. The only thing is they could be a little bigger/fatter. I remember getting a little worried the first time I met the troll in Witcher 2 not so much these skinny trolls in the pic

 

 

i dont see your point. the name may be the same, but it depicts something different depending on the world

 

 

 

Yeah I get sick of people saying something isn't correct when it's in a fantasy world, there are no definitions when you are making a fantasy world, but I think he/she just meant they like your old school huge seedy trolls more

Edited November 27, 2013 by Bli1942

[Cubiq]

I agree i think i would prefer trolls bigger. Infact because they are such common lore creature they should be made a lot more menacing to make them stand out more, pehaps making them as big as Ettin in bg2 underwater city pit fight. The Witcher 2 trolls were a nice example. When you met them you went ohhh shi....

Edited November 27, 2013 by Cubiq

[Solviulnir the Soulbinder]

Will there be mist in the forested/swampy areas? Like in the early morning and/or late evening hours.

How densely do you plan to populate the big city areas with 'average non-quest-qiving-denizen' models?

You're awesome.

[Nonek]

 

Glanfathan buildings built into ancient ruins.

 

 

The twin hounds(?) upholding the bulls head remind me of the two lions above the gates of Mycenae, was this an influence gentleman? And if so I applaud your taste.

[tajerio]

I agree i think i would prefer trolls bigger. Infact because they are such common lore creature they should be made a lot more menacing to make them stand out more, pehaps making them as big as Ettin in bg2 underwater city pit fight. The Witcher 2 trolls were a nice example. When you met them you went ohhh shi....

 

I don't know.  I like it when designers defy my fantasy preconceptions.  For instance, if these trolls were extremely swift ambush predators that travel in packs.  

[Maf]

Gorgeous!

[BAdler]

 

I'm sorry, but those monsters - while looking fearsome - don't honour the name troll - be it  the monster or internet versions. I find their trolldom lacking.

*mumbles something about expert opinion*Maybe the missing red circles around them makes them seem to blend in with the background. The characters in the other screenshot has their blue circles, making them stand out from the background at a quick glance.

I did turn the GUI off when I took the shots.

[WorstUsernameEver]

 

 

I'm sorry, but those monsters - while looking fearsome - don't honour the name troll - be it  the monster or internet versions. I find their trolldom lacking.

*mumbles something about expert opinion*Maybe the missing red circles around them makes them seem to blend in with the background. The characters in the other screenshot has their blue circles, making them stand out from the background at a quick glance.

I did turn the GUI off when I took the shots.

 

Is there a chance we might see the UI in the big update screens? It's been quite a while since our last (first, actually) glimpse.