UK Muslims targeted for speaking out about terror

[kgambit]

 

 

You have to know English to become a citizen

 

No, not in all cases.  There are exceptions. 

 

You Are Exempt From The English Language Requirement, But Are Still Required To Take The Civics Test If You Are:

• Age 50 or older at the time of filing for naturalization and have lived as a permanent resident (green card holder) in the United States for 20 years   (commonly referred to as the “50/20” exception).

  OR

• Age 55 or older at the time of filing for naturalization and have lived as a permanent resident in the United States for 15 years (commonly referred to as the “55/15” exception).

You may be permitted to take the civics test in your native language, but only if your understanding of spoken English is insufficient to conduct a valid examination in English.

 

 

Even so, there's no reason to encourage those who won't bother to learn English.

 

 

It's also no reason to penalize people in that age group. Learning a new language at that age is not easy. 

[ShadySands]

I saw this a while ago and it pretty much goes along with what I've seen growing up in AZ

 

Fewer Latinos will speak Spanish, more non-Latinos will, report says

[Hurlshort]

I wanna believe Tsuga is being extra Jingoist to get a rise. 

 

That's what I figured too.  Otherwise it would just be sad

[BruceVC]

 

 

Oh, for the love of revisionist history, not the exalted Founders card. One official language would be the opposite of freedom and justice for all.

Nothing revisionist about my post. And one language is only appropriate to help prevent the Balkanization of the USA. Then again, you're from the People's Republic of Flake-i-fornia, so I suppose your attitude is to be expected as it's been spinning out of control for decades.

 

 

You don't know where I am from, any more than your stewardship of personal ideals represent facts. 

 

I  find these debates by our American members fascinating. What many people outside of America don't realize is just how varied and disparate the political discourse can be within the USA. Each state within America can be like its own little country with totally different opinions. Of course in times of real crisis the states unite...like after 9/11

 

What I find annoying on the various Talk Shows in South Africa is generalizations you hear about the USA from some people. Now these are people who have never been to the USA or who have bothered to study there political system and understand just how varied the political views in the USA are . Some classic ones I heard through the years are

• America will NEVER allow a black president ...they are racist (Obama)
• America wants to invade Syria because of the oil (what oil)
• America only intervenes in other countries when it comes to natural resources ( Really? Serbia, Somalia and many other humanitarian interventions dispute this)
• If you want to understand how America works read the " Confessions of an Economic Hitman"  ( Yeah an exaggerated book that reflects American foreign policy 40 years ago is now how current policy works..whatever)
• America wants to bomb African countries into submission so they can rebuild the countries and get the contracts to rebuild those countries ( so stupid I don't know where to comment

Looking at the various opinions on these forums I find myself generally aligned with the views and opinions of people from California, like Hurlshot and others. This doesn't surprise me as I do consider myself a liberal and the Californian view on social issues is what seems to resonate with me the most

[Gfted1]

You don't know where I am from, any more than your stewardship of personal ideals represent facts.

Psst, your location is listed directly under your avatar.

[BruceVC]

 

You don't know where I am from, any more than your stewardship of personal ideals represent facts.

Psst, your location is listed directly under your avatar.

 

 

 

Funny, but I think he means he isn't originally from California or that he has only been staying there a relatively  short time

Edited October 23, 2013 by BruceVC

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I wanna believe Tsuga is being extra Jingoist to get a rise.

 

I would hope so.

[Meshugger]

Oh, for the love of revisionist history, not the exalted Founders card. One official language would be the opposite of freedom and justice for all. 

 

I am not disagreeing of an official language, but what is revisionist in the linked article and what is the truth? I'm a bit of an history buff and i haven't heard about this story of Franklin before.

[Walsingham]

 

 

 

Oh, for the love of revisionist history, not the exalted Founders card. One official language would be the opposite of freedom and justice for all.

Nothing revisionist about my post. And one language is only appropriate to help prevent the Balkanization of the USA. Then again, you're from the People's Republic of Flake-i-fornia, so I suppose your attitude is to be expected as it's been spinning out of control for decades.

 

 

You don't know where I am from, any more than your stewardship of personal ideals represent facts. 

 

I  find these debates by our American members fascinating. What many people outside of America don't realize is just how varied and disparate the political discourse can be within the USA. Each state within America can be like its own little country with totally different opinions. Of course in times of real crisis the states unite...like after 9/11

 

What I find annoying on the various Talk Shows in South Africa is generalizations you hear about the USA from some people. Now these are people who have never been to the USA or who have bothered to study there political system and understand just how varied the political views in the USA are . Some classic ones I heard through the years are

• America will NEVER allow a black president ...they are racist (Obama)
• America wants to invade Syria because of the oil (what oil)
• America only intervenes in other countries when it comes to natural resources ( Really? Serbia, Somalia and many other humanitarian interventions dispute this)
• If you want to understand how America works read the " Confessions of an Economic Hitman"  ( Yeah an exaggerated book that reflects American foreign policy 40 years ago is now how current policy works..whatever)
• America wants to bomb African countries into submission so they can rebuild the countries and get the contracts to rebuild those countries ( so stupid I don't know where to comment

Looking at the various opinions on these forums I find myself generally aligned with the views and opinions of people from California, like Hurlshot and others. This doesn't surprise me as I do consider myself a liberal and the Californian view on social issues is what seems to resonate with me the most

 

 

I've now hit the stage where although I think those opinions you listed are asinine, I hope they are actually true. So that the inept disorganised wankers can actually get bombed flat. Unfortunately I know they won't because they are wrong.

 

If it makes you feel any better, you should read The Great War for Civilisation by Robert Fisk.

 

...Don't read it. You will sprain your face.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Walsingham

[Hurlshort]

I saw this a while ago and it pretty much goes along with what I've seen growing up in AZ

 

Fewer Latinos will speak Spanish, more non-Latinos will, report says

 

That's not too surprising.  My wife's dad is full blooded Mexican, his sisters actually live in Mexico.  But he never taught my wife spanish and she knows as much as I do from taking it in High school.  

 

I've no idea what Tsuga is talking about, really.  I'm surrounded by Mexican-Americans and the only ones that don't speak English fluently are over 50.  I've never heard of any youth movement to to overthrow the English language.  It sounds absurd  

[Tsuga C]

I am not disagreeing of an official language, but what is revisionist in the linked article and what is the truth? I'm a bit of an history buff and i haven't heard about this story of Franklin before.

Do a little digging whist avoiding revisionist history (i.e. LibProg lies) and it's easy to find. The Germans simply weren't interested in becoming Anglocized and it was necessary to force the issue to prevent divided loyalties.  Here's another one you might not have heard of previously:

 

“We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile. We have room for but one language here and that is the English language, for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, and American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding house; and we have room for but one soul [sic] loyalty, and that is loyalty to the American people.”

 

The Chicago Daily Tribune. “Abolish Hyphen Roosevelt’s Last Words to Public.” 7 January 1919 (p. 4).

 

Hurlshot and the rest can keep their polyglot Flake-i-fornia boarding house.  The rest of us are heartily tired of the myriad problems spawned by massive Third World immigration and the failure of these immigrants, both legal and illegal, to check their Old Country way of thinking and behaving at the border.  This nation already has its own culture, one based upon its founding British, Irish, and Germanic antecedents.  Given that the cesspools from whence they're fleeing were created by those who look like, think like, and behave like them, it's only logical that the Old Ways need to stay in the Old Country or they'll just be re-creating the same Third World mess over here.

 

Had I my druthers, I'd:

• shut down ALL immigration for the remainder of the 21st Century to allow for the proper Americanization of those who've come here legally since the passage of the Immigration Reform Act of 1965
• Arm the southwest border and give the troops aggressive rules of engagement
• deport ALL illegal aliens
• fine the hell out of businesses caught employing illegal aliens
• declare English our national language and the sole language for all legal documents, including ballots
• end birthright citizenship to eliminate the costly scourge of birthright border hopping
• deport the treasonous rabble (MEChA, Counsel on American-Islamic Relations, Black Panthers, etc.) and place a death sentence on those who return

Our nation, our ways and mores.  If the Johnny-come-latelies don't like it, they're free to go back where they came from as--trust me on this--they won't be missed.  An excellent review of a superlative work Who Are We? that deals with the USA and our present immigration/cultural issues, but is pertinent to all Western nations dealing with such problems. Edited October 23, 2013 by Tsuga C

[Zoraptor]

You know, if I could just convince myself that that was a satirical dig at the sort of stuff obyknven posts...

[Malcador]

Oh, this will end well. But I suppose we need more oby style postings.

[Walsingham]

This nation already has its own culture, one based upon its founding British, Irish, and Germanic antecedents.  Given that the cesspools from whence they're fleeing were created by those who look like, think like, and behave like them, it's only logical that the Old Ways need to stay in the Old Country

 

 

You mean the unrest, disease, famine, corruption and constant warfare of Britain in the 16th-19th centuries?

 

I guess you don't.

 

Well, in that case on with the hunting anyone who looks foreign from the back of a pickup truck. Racial and cultural purity will solve _everything_, including the national debt, energy security, foreign ownership of production, the war on drugs, those little umbrellas which inexplicably get put in drinks, and that odd smell generated overnight in my bedroom.

[Hurlshort]

Huh, I thought I remember reading some more rational stuff from Tsuga in the past.  I guess he's decided to adopt the white supremacist line to stand out more?  

 

 

Good luck without California, by the way.  We only represent 13.3% of the GDP in the US, so I'm sure the US will do just fine without it.     

[Tsuga C]

Nice hyperbole, Walsingham. While you might enjoy the "Londonistan" phenomenon for some bizarre reason or other, I expressly want to avoid such things happening in the USA. The only way to do this is to check the source of the problem: immigrants, both legal and illegal.

[NOK222]

Nice hyperbole, Walsingham. While you might enjoy the "Londonistan" phenomenon for some bizarre reason or other, I expressly want to avoid such things happening in the USA. The only way to do this is to check the source of the problem: immigrants, both legal and illegal.

Anglo Saxons only.

Edited October 23, 2013 by NKKKK

[Hurlshort]

It's pretty hard to take Tsuga seriously as an American patriot when he actively belittles and ignores the state with the most people in the country.  

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

It's pretty hard to take Tsuga seriously as an American patriot when he actively belittles and ignores the state with the most people in the country.

 

California isn't REAL America, with Boy Scouts, apple pie, no filthy minorities polluting the streets, and family values. California is a cesspool filled with non-whites, ethnic food, science, and tolerance.

 

No if you will excuse me, I will purge all the filthy invaders who have been corrupting this land since they arrived, except for Anglo Saxons, because their invasion doesn't count.

[Malcador]

It's pretty hard to take Tsuga seriously as an American patriot when he actively belittles and ignores the state with the most people in the country.

Well if he views that state as being not part it's ok. Not sure if Patriotism is love of all the people or just the State - seems to be a latter, in which case he's still fine.

[Walsingham]

Nice hyperbole, Walsingham. While you might enjoy the "Londonistan" phenomenon for some bizarre reason or other, I expressly want to avoid such things happening in the USA. The only way to do this is to check the source of the problem: immigrants, both legal and illegal.

 

Indeed. I am notably keen on jihadis. Ask any forum member.

[Rostere]

This nation already has its own culture, one based upon its founding British, Irish, and Germanic antecedents.  Given that the cesspools from whence they're fleeing were created by those who look like, think like, and behave like them, it's only logical that the Old Ways need to stay in the Old Country or they'll just be re-creating the same Third World mess over here.

 

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

 

1600: "We can't allow the Dutch settlers. This island already has its own culture, one based upon its ancient Algonquian Lenape antecedents."

1624: "We can't allow the British here. This city already has its own culture, one based upon its founding Dutch antecedents."

1710: "We can't allow the German Palatines here. This country already has its own culture, one based upon its founding British antecedents."

1850: "We can't allow the German and Irish Catholics here. This country already has its own culture, one based upon its founding Protestant antecedents."

1865: "We can't accept Africans as equal citizens in our society. This country already has its own culture, one based upon its founding European antecedents."

1921: "We can't allow the Southern Europeans, Jews and Asians here. This country already has its own culture, one based upon its founding Northern European antecedents."

 

In every age there has been people like you making arguments to conserve the current society. Yet now in 2013 I bet you disagree with all your historical counterparts. How would New York... or New Amsterdam.. look if only the Dutch had ever moved there? Change is inevitable, and mixing cultures together often makes progress possible.

 

It would be absolutely hilarious to see you as a Native American, willing to "lock 'n' load" to deal with the British, Irish and Germanic "illegal aliens".

 

Would you have shot your own ancestor as they landed on American soil? Would you have shot the British in 1624? The Germans in the 18th century? The Irish in the mid-19th century? Quit your hypocrisy already, and accept that in the end, foreign immigrants provide room for growth or increased competition, ultimately perfecting your society. The only rational thing you could do otherwise by your own logic is to travel to your nearest Native American reservation, apologize, and shoot yourself in the head because you would not even exist if your forefathers had not broken against your own ideals.

 

Secondly, most of the countries where refugees come from are not wrecked by their inhabitants - they are in such a bad shape because of policies of much more powerful countries, who first conquered them directly during the age of imperialism, and the set them free with artifical borders under the rule of their own puppet dictators.

 

Finally someone understood to debate the idea multiculturalism in itself. I was almost giving up hope. (Rostere that is)

 

So the limit is set to common social ground for a nation is that everyone is equal to the law, which in turn is based on the moral and ethic conduct of the citizens. I do not think that our ideas on a multicultural society is that much different except i wouldn't call it multicultural, but rather one dominating culture with minority groups here and there. I think the only dividing point is that you seem to see it as enforceable ideal, where i see it as a byproduct of people meeting on their own terms without any outside force demanding it. I do not get why you got the idea of xenophobic isolation, when the point was more like you cannot make two adults have hugs and kisses just because the government thinks it is a swell idea and makes the lawmakers warm and fuzzy inside.

 

What i am definately sceptical about is how multiculture is a self-correcting system. If that were the case, then was the Roman empire better of collapsing and was the introduction of the dark ages a multicultural highmark or a fluke in the grander scheme of things?

 

Also, the United States is not as multicultural as you think. There is still a common creed, the american way, the american exceptionalism and the american dream. English is the spoken word in and the laws are written in english. People come from all over the world to become americans and to achieve the ideal of the nation. Sure they will add some extra holidays or have pop-song hit in another language, but in the cultural context that i just explained, they are leaving Korea and Somalia behind them (most of them anyway). So i do not see the "insult" here really. Europe however, does not have any nations built on ideals, which leaves it quite difficult for a nation to suddenly become multicultural over night. The swiss have managed it quite well though, but we have to remember that it was founded by the four groups of people (germans, french, italians and retoromans) to counter outside forces. It didn't go from completely italian to what it is today.

 

I am not entirely sure what you mean about Japan though. Japanese culture is already accessible all over the place. What changes would your scenario be?

 

Regarding "enforceable ideal" I think multiculturalism is just (loosely speaking) letting the inevitable happen, and hopefully giving as many people as possible an edge in a global, multicultural society.

 

I don't think you understand the essence of the Roman Empire. The central idea was that anyone could become a Roman citizen. It could not have grown as large as it became without embracing multiculturalism. You've got to understand that even in it's early stage, when the Roman Empire was expanding from being just Rome and then a handful of cities, it was accepting wildly foreign cultures, creating influences true multiculture style on what we today call "Roman society". In many places, there was no "country" in place before the Romans got there, just an inhomogeneous mess, which still was absorbed quite painlessly into the Roman Empire. Regional differences were far deeper than they are today. It would be entirely impossible to achieve this without embracing the multicultural paradigm. With the standards of 2000 years ago, Pax Romana meant multicultural heaven during the majority of it's history.

 

To be honest, I can totally connect the rise of the Roman Empire to multiculturalism, but I have no idea what it's fall has to do with it.

 

You are perfectly right about the difference between the US and most European nations - there being no "American" racial ethnicity is a great asset now and increasingly in the future. If some group of people could claim to be "true" Americans, the US would see a lot more xenophobic politicians. When everybody is clearly descended from immigrants, the hypocrisy of xenophobia becomes much easier to see.

 

Also, you can wave the American flag in support of free speech or any other principle on which the US was founded. In Sweden, free speech is at least as important as in the US, but the Swedish flag is associated since the late 19th century with the notion of a Swedish ethnic group or people (even earlier, it would have been associated with support for the Swedish king). So sadly but rightfully, displaying the Swedish flag randomly here is considered a bit "taboo" and people will think you are either a racist or a clueless tourist. An example: the webstore for the popular Norwegian OnePiece has clothes with the US flag, the French flag, the Norwegian flag, the Danish flag and the Finnish flag. You might then expect to find the Swedish flag there as well, but nope. If somebody ever wears Swedish colors, it's connected to sports or with a sports "look" and doesn't feature the flag explicitly. (The current Finnish and Norwegian nations are much younger, and as such their flags are much more closely associated with their independence, and the celebration of the fact that they exist as sovereign nations at all)

 

I wouldn't say Switzerland is a successful multicultural society today, although it certainly has been historically.

 

You think Japanese culture is already accessible anywhere? Excellent. That must mean that the elements of Japanese culture are already considered completely accepted by your society.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Actually European immigration really did suck for the Indians.

[Rostere]

Actually European immigration really did suck for the Indians.

 

I would regard peaceful settlement as positive, even with the effect of diseases and such. Having knowledge of the surroundings and wildlife must have been very important, integration of Indians into burgeoning settler societies would have been a huge boon.

 

Sadly, the European settlers in America ended up mostly killing the Indians and driving them off their land by force. That was of course a huge catastrophe.

 

It's interesting to see the same thing happening in slow-motion in Israel/Palestine today.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Yeah, too bad 16th century colonizers weren't the "peace and love" types. Did it also occur to you that may be the Indians had no desire whatsoever to integrate into anything?

 

Edit: And I guess Israelis could integrate the Palestinians into their society so that Palestinians teach them about the wit and wisdom of adolph hitler : http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/10/22/palestinian-authority-kids-mag-publishes-bogus-wit-and-wisdom-adolf-hitler/

Edited October 24, 2013 by Wrath of Dagon