Yager Games

[Katphood]

These guys made Spec Ops: The Line, which was pretty awesome. I visited their website today and it says that they are working on a Unannounced Project. The description says: "AAA First Person Shooter. More information coming soon..."

 

 

Now I don't know what you guys make out of "AAA First Person Shooter" but I would love to see these guys make a game based on the Battle of Stalingrad. Not a Call of Duty-like game, mind you, but something more in the lines of Spec Ops: The Line.

 

What I mean by that is that you could make a story with same style of narrative in Spec Ops: The Line but better. You can play as two different lieutenants. A German lieutenant and a Russian lieutenant. The story could then be divided into different chapters, allowing you to experience the horrors of war from both sides.

 

There are many memoirs, documentaries and reports that can help the devs create an interesting story with a good narrative. Then there is the gameplay. I want to see a bit more realism here compared to Spec Ops. The game should have sections where you can order your troops on the battlefield and your commands should be able to change the outcome of the battle in many different ways. The battles at the main railway station is a good example here, because it changed hands 15 times during the battle.

 

The outcome of the battles should be different each time, I am talking about how you win or lose the battle not the story. Basically it should be fun to play sections of the game over and over again with different difficulty settings, even if you have already beaten the story. The story can also have different endings depending on your morale towards the end of the battle. The German lieutenant for example could reach a point where he a)surrenders and eventually returns home after years OR b)He fights blindly towards the end and ends up freezing to death together with his German comrades or he could commit suicide etc. etc. You should also be able to fight alongside the troops that you command(naturally). I hope I am making some sense here So, What do you think of this idea and what do you hope to see from these guys?

Edited October 9, 2013 by Astiaks

[C2B]

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The company exists since 1999 and we've only seen two big games from them (Which I both enjoyed)

Edited October 9, 2013 by C2B

[Hurlshort]

I'm playing Spec Ops right now and it is an interesting game, but I'd love to see them do something less shooty.

[Nordicus]

I honestly want to see if Walt Williams is on board before I start saying anything about their next shooter. Spec Ops: The Line is definitely a cult classic by now, but if they were somehow encouraged to continue with making games where the narrative and its messages are supposed to catch you off guard and/or deliver specific kind of critique, then you need talent to back those ambitions. Not to mention that the Spec Ops sales numbers weren't exactly flattering either, so maybe they'll play it safe this time around instead of being risky, which they really were with Spec Ops

 

Spec Ops' lead designer now works at Spark Unlimited (yes, that notorious Spark Unlimited), and Richard Pearsey (writer) is not listed with anyone on LinkedIn

 

As much as I loved Spec Ops, there's no telling if the lightning will strike twice

Edited October 9, 2013 by Nordicus

[Tale]

Are we to discuss Yager, of which we have little detail or knowledge of their next project, or are we to create from whole cloth FPS game ideas we'd like to see?

[Hurlshort]

Are we to discuss Yager, of which we have little detail or knowledge of their next project, or are we to create from whole cloth FPS game ideas we'd like to see?

 

Or are we just going to take a round of Jager shots?

[Malcador]

I thought this was news on a flight sim company.

[HoonDing]

Spec Ops: The Line is definitely a cult classic by now

It is? What sets it apart from other modern cinematic cover shooters?

[Nordicus]

Ya kidding me?

 

Who am I kidding, of course you are

[Keyrock]

I've played some yager games in the past.  They involved shot glasses and occasionally led to people passing out.  That's not what we're talking about here, is it?

[Hurlshort]

 

Spec Ops: The Line is definitely a cult classic by now

It is? What sets it apart from other modern cinematic cover shooters?

 

 

They went with an Apocalypse Now/Heart of Darkness theme with their story.  While I'm not sold on them actually pulling it off, it is nice to see the attempt at not glorifying the violence.

[Tale]

It plays against the stereotypes of modern war games and I more than admire the game for that. It's set in Dubai and the enemies are other American soldiers.

 

It's a game that builds up its themes. A perhaps cynical theme some will take as an insult, others will consider pretentious and assumptive. It is a game about thoughtless violence in pursuit of heroism. Some people think it's trying to speak about them as players or about war, but I think the real message is just about the games.

 

Maybe I give it too much credit. Maybe I make excuses for where those themes fail and I shift it to where those themes work. I don't think that really matters, death of the author and all that. It's trying to have meaning apart from those around it. It accomplishes meaning apart from those around it. And that's significant to me.

[Hurlshort]

I will definitely say the game poses tough questions and puts you in uncomfortable situations.  Now they don't give you a lot in the way of choices, but I think that is part of their message.

[sorophx]

 Richard Pearsey (writer) is not listed with anyone on LinkedIn

he either got laid off or left Red 5 himself about a month or so ago.

[Nordicus]

It's a game that builds up its themes. A perhaps cynical theme some will take as an insult, others will consider pretentious and assumptive. It is a game about thoughtless violence in pursuit of heroism. Some people think it's trying to speak about them as players or about war, but I think the real message is just about the games.

The message is mainly about the games and other military-related media, but the game does make the players ask themselves a few questions and share some of the blame for the status quo

 

Maybe I give it too much credit. Maybe I make excuses for where those themes fail and I shift it to where those themes work. I don't think that really matters, death of the author and all that. It's trying to have meaning apart from those around it. It accomplishes meaning apart from those around it. And that's significant to me.

Have you possibly listened to Walt Williams' (spoiler-filled) GDC presentation We Are Not Heroes: Contextualizing Violence Through Narrative? I thought I had spotted most everything in 2 playthroughs (bloody short game), but Williams still managed to talk about a few details in Spec Ops' presentation and message that went over my head.

 

Now they don't give you a lot in the way of choices, but I think that is part of their message.

It is. The methods they use to convey this are a bit shaky, especially during that scene, which caused some players to ragequit the game entirely Edited October 9, 2013 by Nordicus

[Tale]

I don't think I've seen that video, thanks.

[Orogun01]

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The company exists since 1999 and we've only seen two big games from them (Which I both enjoyed)

In the interest of giving them the benefit of doubt, i'm going to say that they may have worked on some low key games which ended up being scrapped which is why no one heard about them. It is a fairly common thing actually.

[C2B]

I've played some yager games in the past.  They involved shot glasses and occasionally led to people passing out.  That's not what we're talking about here, is it?

 

Shot jokes but nobody makes one about their first game literary being called Yager.

 

Pathetic.

Edited October 9, 2013 by C2B

[pmp10]

 

Now they don't give you a lot in the way of choices, but I think that is part of their message.

It is. The methods they use to convey this are a bit shaky, especially during that scene, which caused some players to ragequit the game entirely

There is nothing wrong with quiting the game over things it expects you to do.

If gaming is supposed to stay a interactive hobby it's much better we all develop uncrossable borders rather than get constantly offended.

[Nordicus]

There is nothing wrong with quiting the game over things it expects you to do.

If gaming is supposed to stay a interactive hobby it's much better we all develop uncrossable borders rather than get constantly offended.

You're absolutely right. When the reasoning is simple "I'm not doing this. I'm not going to play a game that forces me to do this" then one can not really judge that person if it stays as this uncrossable border for them in any game. Not just Spec Ops for some arbitrary reason

 

But when you're forced to do something horrible, you then actually do it, then aren't ready to face the deserved negative consequences from this action and yell "What is this bull****? This wasn't my fault, why doesn't game give me an option that feels less horrible???", that is when this game has failed to reach you and teach you anything.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Nordicus

[Tale]

But when you're forced to do something horrible, you then actually do it, then aren't ready to face the deserved negative consequences from this action and yell "What is this bull****? This wasn't my fault, why doesn't game give me an option that feels less horrible???", that is when this game has failed to reach you and teach you anything.

I'm not sure what you're saying. But I will say this.

 

If the player is forced to do something, then no, I don't accept the negative consequences of that action. I'll say it again, the player should never be punished for choices he was not allowed to make.

 

White phosphorous worked for me in Spec-Ops because the player was never really punished for it. Walker was punished for it. That's what I saw in the ending, the opportunity for me, the player, to punish Walker. And with that the overall tragedy fit well.

 

And that's one reason I don't see The Line type narratives working in RPGs. I think RPGs should be about making choices the player can own. Though I also feel his talk of silent judgements can work in the genre and I especially like the idea of implementing rationalization into RPGs, give players a choice of rationalization to grow the character.

[Hurlshort]

I assume we are all talking about the phosphorus bombing.  I refused to do it at first.  I tried to shoot it out for a bit, then I actually walked away from the game.  Eventually I decided I wanted to see where the game went with it and proceeded.  I walked away afterwards for a bit as well.  I don't think it is bad for a game to weigh on you, in fact I wish more of these ultra violent games went that route.  So many of them brush over the kill rate with little thought.

 

edit:  Thanks a ton to Bendu for gifting me the game, by the way.  It has been a real surprise for me.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Hurlshot

[Malcador]

Can't really think of many games where you get to use as nasty a weapon as WP though. Mainly the run of the mill AP stuff.

 

Though it would be nice to see a game where people are incapacitated by bullets and don't immediately die. Think the Red Cross made a statement about this recently.

[Tale]

I'm more than willing to give a game a little trust with reprehensible scenes. But I need that to pay off in a way that's meaningful for why I'm playing the game.

 

Walker burns civilians alive and at the end I get to kill him for it.

Trevor tortures a guy, but stops a terrorist attack, and even saves the life of the guy he tortured.

 

This is why I dislike it so much when a game, especially an RPG, forces me into an action or inaction from which only bad things result. Because I trusted the game to pay off for that action and it didn't.

[Nordicus]

If the player is forced to do something, then no, I don't accept the negative consequences of that action. I'll say it again, the player should never be punished for choices he was not allowed to make.

 

White phosphorous worked for me in Spec-Ops because the player was never really punished for it. Walker was punished for it. That's what I saw in the ending, the opportunity for me, the player, to punish Walker. And with that the overall tragedy fit well.

I honestly did not disconnect myself from Walker after the white phosphorous like you seem to have, probably because I did not really see it coming and had a proper "Oh god no" moment during the reveal that I had burned civilians. The difference between Walker and player was always supposed to be blurry, and if you continue on with the game, you're in a sense having the same reaction as Walker, "We have to move forward".

 

The game repeatedly reminds you of this event plus the accumulated number of smaller ones, you're never meant to forget that you've done all this or shrug it off. You carry it. You're seeing all these visions Walker is seeing, Konrad breaks the 4th wall explicitly with his questions and the loading screens messages get hostile towards you. I personally think the game is in a way punishing you.

 

I chose to shoot Conrad in the end. My rationale was "why would I shoot myself and take the coward's way out of responsibility? If my fate is to die here, then let the Dubai citizens do it. If not, then I'll just live with it"

 

And that's one reason I don't see The Line type narratives working in RPGs. I think RPGs should be about making choices the player can own. Though I also feel his talk of silent judgements can work in the genre and I especially like the idea of implementing rationalization into RPGs, give players a choice of rationalization to grow the character.

It's pretty obvious that a narrative too much like this wouldn't work since this was a pretty direct critique of linear and brainless modern military shooter campaigns.

 

 

It is interesting how we both had such different experiences with Spec Ops and our views on Walker are very different, yet we both came out impressed with the game and what it did

Edited October 9, 2013 by Nordicus