Dragon Age: Inquisition

[Zoraptor]

The studio gets nothing from PST sales, all that goes to the vendor and the publisher, Hasbro, now. Given the studio is pretty much Herve Caen sitting in his basement at this point that is not such a bad thing though. Even if they made 'only' a hundred thousand bucks from selling it on GOG it's still 100k, a decade plus after its release. PST sold fine (about 400k, iirc), it just didn't sell well enough to justify the extra effort required for it as opposed to something like IWD which was cheaper/ easier to make and sold more.

[Spider]

Planscape Torment was not a commercial success. It had abysmally low sales numbers.

 

Depends on how you define abysmally then I guess. It wasn't a smash hit by any means, but it did turn a profit in the end (before Interplay went under even).

[Sarex]

The studio gets nothing from PST sales, all that goes to the vendor and the publisher, Hasbro, now. Given the studio is pretty much Herve Caen sitting in his basement at this point that is not such a bad thing though. Even if they made 'only' a hundred thousand bucks from selling it on GOG it's still 100k, a decade plus after its release. PST sold fine (about 400k, iirc), it just didn't sell well enough to justify the extra effort required for it as opposed to something like IWD which was cheaper/ easier to make and sold more.

 

Studio/publisher doesn't matter, my point was that stretched over 10 years those numbers are still low.

 

 

Depends on how you define abysmally then I guess. It wasn't a smash hit by any means, but it did turn a profit in the end (before Interplay went under even).

 

Abysmal may have been an overstatement, but I doubt they did much more then break even.

Edited August 24, 2013 by Sarex

[licketysplit]

Planscape Torment was not a commercial success. It had abysmally low sales numbers.

 

Well, it happens to be boring as hell for people who like solid gameplay.

[Keyrock]

 

 

The Morrigan body pillow ain't got nothin' on the Cyber Dwarf body pillow (I couldn't justify dropping $100 to get to that tier, but I kinda wish I had):

 

[licketysplit]

Bioware's fanbase...let's not bring them into any sane discussion about games.

[Gromnir]

keep in mind that we is talking a 1999-2000 pc game. uncle fergie pointed out that planescape did, eventually, make it into the black. and you didnt need to sell 1 million copies back then to be a win. Relative sales numbers for ps:t ended up being better than some is suggesting. however, from point-of-view of the publisher, 1st 2 quarters sales numbers is most important... and a slow trickle over years is not helping.  there just ain't much argument in support o' planescape being anything other than a commercial loss for interplay. takes a couple years to break even? that is a failure-- if you coulda' taken development money and put into mutual funds and seen better return over a handful o' years, you is not looking good on quarterly reports.

 

all o' which is kinda off-topic, as we predicted would happen.

 

planescape, whatever its Many flaws, had some admirable storytelling and memorable characters. good writing is not what killed planescape. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited August 24, 2013 by Gromnir

[Cultist]

Bioware's fanbase...let's not bring them into any sane discussion about games.

On the contrary - they are the target audience bioware cater to in recent years. They keep them in mind when implementing new features, changing mechanics, and chosing storyline approach. It is advisable to keep images like this when talking about bioware games. Just to know what you are dealing with.

[alanschu]

 

 

Unless they make Hawke a chick who you can bang.  Then it would be like seeing a sex scene from both a first and third person perspective between DA2 and DAI.  Isn't that right up BioWare's marketing alley?

 

There's a lot of people on these boards that seem quite fixated with the topic, too, it seems.

 

 

 

 

I mean that lots of people would be upset to see Hawke being an uncontrolled NPC, as it would very likely defy the character the Dragon Age 2 players made him to be. And there's nothing really for Bioware to gain from that.

 

That's definitely the huge concern.

 

I think there's more impetus for us to do it with Hawke, since his story was more strongly alluded to having another chapter to go (although the Warden has "disappeared" as well), and there are infrastructural advantages that Hawke has over the Warden in terms of things like voice and whatnot.  Still, that's not to say it's not without challenges.

 

Part of the problem with leaving DA2 more open ended is that we just assumed an expansion pack would be done.  Hopefully we're a bit less cavalier with the conclusion of DAI, going forward.

[alanschu]

 

 

Back in the day. By now? PS:T is the second best selling game on GoG, behind BG2. These games continue to sell strong 15 years after they were made.

Sure, for a publiser nowdays that isn't something they want. All they care are the first week sales. But for a smaller studio lke inXile and Obsidian, making a game that is criticaly praised and have a long lifespan can sustain the studio.

 

PST is a game with a strong legacy for sure.  It's also a game that has people like me buying it for a second time (as well as BG2) simply because it ensures I have it as I'm awful at losing CDs.

 

That said, Obsidian won't see a penny from it (the old school staffers, I suppose, might.  But I am skeptical).  Further, while long term ROI in such a case can be viable, it has large risks.  I remember Feargus talking about how PST eventually made a profit, although this was still several years after PST was released.  In terms of running a business, waiting several years for a return on your investment works if you have other projects bringing in profits on past projects during the gap.  (Sort of how furniture stores can routinely offer "Don't pay for two years" events, because they're pulling in the money from the people that bought stuff two years ago).

 

My Dad ran a computer shop for 22 years, and the idea of waiting several years to break even on an investment means that that investment better have pretty huge rewards long term.  Unfortunately, I don't think PST qualifies as this.  I guarantee that every company would prefer to receive the same critical praise, with all of that money in 1/5th the time.

[anubite]

I think it's unbelievably misguided for anyone to go into the business of making art with the intention of beating out mutual funds in terms of profit. A video game is pretty much like a movie, it's a huge gamble. There are safer gambles, like, super hero movies these days are, but at the end of the day, the public can be pretty fickle. But really, there's no artistic design process that guarantees the lowest risk and the highest payout; making a video game is not a science. If PST made enough money back to fund or partially fund the creation of another game, it should be considered a success. PST garnered enough critical attention it should be labelled a success. Any art which can be profitable enough to fund the further creation of an artist's work, or any art which is widely consumed and experienced and highly critiqued... it doesn't get much better than that as an artist. If you're setting out to paint, draw, make a movie or a game, you pretty much know the chance to wild success is a crap shoot. Having lots of money behind you (ie marketing) can be enough to give you a greater chance, but it just means you have a lot to lose if it doesn't pan out.

 

So, if PST is a failure because it can't beat mutual funds, then the industry is broken. Games are art, even if they maybe aren't a mature medium yet - the creation of one is a risky artistic endeavor. The recent downward spirals for EA, Ubisoft, Square, Xbox (-3 bil net for Microsoft over 10 years) all show that there is no scientific recipe for success.

[Keyrock]

It's funny how much the industry has changed.  These days, if a game doesn't get crazy sales in the first month or two it's a failure, plain and simple.  I remember when Leisure Suit Larry in the Land of Lounge Lizards initially struggled and seemed like a flop, months later sales picked up and kept going and going and it became one of the best selling games of the time and one of the prime building blocks of the Sierra On-Line empire that ruled an entire decade+. (Sierra On-Line, I miss you so much, I shall post a Ken & Roberta Williams pic to honor your memory)

 

[alanschu]

If PST made enough money back to fund or partially fund the creation of another game, it should be considered a success.

 

How long do you wait for it to make its money back?

 

Because the people at BIS/Obsidian need to do things like eat, and stuff.  Imagine it was self-funded.  Should they just have done other stuff to sustain themselves while they waited for PST to make a profit?  Do we factor in the costs while waiting for it to make a profit as part of the expenses?

 

Now to the next point: How long would PST have taken if Black Isle Studios wasn't a professional game studio, filled with people that chose to get paid so they could focus on their craft full time, rather than procure funding through alternative means (i.e. some other job) while trying to work on the game in their spare time.  Would it have been as feasible?  Would it have even still happened?

 

Now, one advantage of kickstarter/crowd funding is that the fans are directly paying for Obsidian to do things like eat.  The game can literally sell zero copies because it was funded by its audience, and if its audience is happy and willing to toss over another few million dollars for another game, they remain gainfully employed and able to dedicate their time to their craft (rather than being distracted with other jobs and so forth to support families) while the fan base gets what it wants (more games from Obsidian).

 

It's a bit much, however, to hope for someone like Feargus and company to take a chance by investing a few million of his own dollars (accruing interest at the same time) and then tell him "well you eventually broke even a few years later, so you should be happy"

Edited August 24, 2013 by alanschu

[alanschu]

 

 

t's funny how much the industry has changed.  These days, if a game doesn't get crazy sales in the first month or two it's a failure, plain and simple.  I remember when Leisure Suit Larry in the Land of Lounge Lizards initially struggled and seemed like a flop, months later sales picked up and kept going and going and it became one of the best selling games of the time and one of the prime building blocks of the Sierra On-Line empire that ruled an entire decade+.

 

This is different, though.  The game eventually went on to be one of the best selling games of its time.  Fortunately it did, and Sierra On-Line was able to reinvest said capital into making you more games.  Would it have still been the case if it sold it's first 4000 copies and that was it?

 

Unfortunate for PST, it didn't become one of the best selling titles of all time.  If it did, Interplay/Black Isle Studios would probably still be around and making stuff.  Probably more stuff like Planescape: Torment.

[Keyrock]

Unfortunate for PST, it didn't become one of the best selling titles of all time.  If it did, Interplay/Black Isle Studios would probably still be around and making stuff.  Probably more stuff like Planescape: Torment.

 

Interplay and Black Isle are still around ... technically.  I would rather they weren't for they are grotesque dopplegängers of their former glorious selves, much like Sierra On-Line, post 1997.

 

Edited August 24, 2013 by Keyrock

[Gromnir]

I think it's unbelievably misguided for anyone to go into the business of making art with the intention of beating out mutual funds in terms of profit. 

 

I think it's unbelievably misguided for anyone to go into the business of making art with the intention of beating out mutual funds in terms of profit. A video game is pretty much like a movie, it's a huge gamble. There are safer gambles, like, super hero movies these days are, but at the end of the day, the public can be pretty fickle. But really, there's no artistic design process that guarantees the lowest risk and the highest payout; making a video game is not a science. If PST made enough money back to fund or partially fund the creation of another game, it should be considered a success. PST garnered enough critical attention it should be labelled a success. Any art which can be profitable enough to fund the further creation of an artist's work, or any art which is widely consumed and experienced and highly critiqued... it doesn't get much better than that as an artist. If you're setting out to paint, draw, make a movie or a game, you pretty much know the chance to wild success is a crap shoot. Having lots of money behind you (ie marketing) can be enough to give you a greater chance, but it just means you have a lot to lose if it doesn't pan out.

 

So, if PST is a failure because it can't beat mutual funds, then the industry is broken. Games are art, even if they maybe aren't a mature medium yet - the creation of one is a risky artistic endeavor. The recent downward spirals for EA, Ubisoft, Square, Xbox (-3 bil net for Microsoft over 10 years) all show that there is no scientific recipe for success.

 

...

 

*add jaw-drop here*

 

interplay were in the business of making money. they had Shareholders. maybe you is thinking of non-profits and not art. a non-profit corporation Cannot issue stock. ea, ubisoft, square... has all made Loads of money off games over the years. and am not sure how you makes xbox parallel to software developers.... but am glad you brought up. ceo o' microsoft is stepping down. since ballmer took over as ceo, microsoft saw estimated net worth go from 600 billion to 300 billion. so no doubt that means all software/tech is a crap shoot and shareholders is stoopid for  wanting to see better return than mutual funds. dumb stockholders.

 

you bring up movies, no? Disney made $5.7 billion in profits last year. PROFIT.

 

...

 

am genuine flabbergasted.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[alanschu]

 

 

Interplay and Black Isle are still around ... technically.

 

I think it's pretty assured that none of us recognize it as being the same entity it was back in 2000 hahaha.

[Keyrock]

 

Interplay and Black Isle are still around ... technically.

 

I think it's pretty assured that none of us recognize it as being the same entity it was back in 2000 hahaha.

 

Oh, I'm quite certain anyone and everyone here recognizes that, at least I hope so.  That said, it's still sad...  no, depressing....  no, soul crushing, that the team that made this piece of garbage  is carrying on the Interplay name.

 

[alanschu]

Eh, it's pretty irrelevant in my life.  For instance, I didn't even know that it was the Superman 64 team.  And it doesn't bother me now.  They can do what they want.  If I don't buy it (which I likely won't) it won't bother me.

[Keyrock]

Eh, it's pretty irrelevant in my life.  For instance, I didn't even know that it was the Superman 64 team.  And it doesn't bother me now.  They can do what they want.  If I don't buy it (which I likely won't) it won't bother me.

Good on you.  I wish had that luxury, I wish agent K and agent J erased my memory of that garbage,

[alanschu]

I never actually played Superman 64 (I remember reading up that it was awful).

 

It's more along the lines of "unless you are planning on buying future stuff from them, then I'm not sure why it would be depressing that they are still crawling and not really being all that relevant."

 

I don't know, side tangent time but I have never bought into the idea that a sequel (or future games in general) can sully the previous games.  I can sort of see it for a continuous story like ME3 souring people on the whole franchise, but like FO1/2 fans getting outraged at FO3.  I loathe Invisible War, but the first Deus Ex is still arguably my all time favourite game!

[ShadySands]

back to the lecture at hand

 

If Hawke is in as an NPC, joinable or otherwise, what gender is canon? I would assume he-Hawke but it could possibly be she-Hawke or maybe import-a-Hawke

[GhostofAnakin]

back to the lecture at hand

 

If Hawke is in as an NPC, joinable or otherwise, what gender is canon? I would assume he-Hawke but it could possibly be she-Hawke or maybe import-a-Hawke

 

I don't know if the import-a-Hawke would be a good decision.  I know it's a different team/engine (it's a different engine, right?) than Mass Effect, but look at the fiasco of importing a Mass Effect 2 Shepard into ME3.  Is it even fixed yet?  It wasn't the last time I played ME3.

 

And that was for the main character.  Imagine how much time would have to be allocated to the process, and this time it's for a (potential) NPC party member, not even the main character.

 

My personal opinion is this is one of those things that should be steered clear of.

[Hurlshort]

I thought I read somewhere that female Hawke is Canon.

[ShadySands]

I actually like the idea of Hawke as an NPC but I can see why a lot of people might not. People who actually enjoyed DA2 maybe

 

 

Hmm, he-Hawke was in Dragon Age Legends but it wouldn't surprise me if that was just a one off