Obsidian are notorious for release bug-filled products...

[Delicieuxz]

Since Project Eternity is hopefully a labour of love for them, I hope that they will release it in a polished state, but I'm worried, given their track record. Have they said anything about this aspect of the development and release schedule?

[Leferd]

http://kotaku.com/5968952/the-knights-of-new-vegas-how-obsidian-survived-countless-catastrophes-and-made-some-of-the-coolest-role+playing-games-ever

 

This article also covers that particular criticism.

[mcmanusaur]

You know, I'm not sure whether Obsidian has announced yet just how buggy they intend Project Eternity to be... I'm assuming they'll go for "just buggy enough that you sporadically clench your fist in rage, but not so buggy that you can justify leaving the game".

 

Seriously though, the release schedule for crowdfunded games like Project Eternity isn't set by a draconian publisher in the same manner as most other games, and I think that will solve a the majority of this problem.

Edited July 15, 2013 by mcmanusaur

[Sacred_Path]

I honestly suspect that bugs will mostly be an issue if you choose to play Trial of Iron; IOW, that mode is actually right out. Apart from that I'm willing to believe they will nail down most issues with the beta(s) and subsequent patching.

[Eiphel]

This seems like an unfair criticism. The two games people tend to cite, KoTOR and New Vegas, as being symbolic of their bugginess were both the victim of heavy publisher meddling. Bethesda, particularly, really haven't ever heard of quality assurance. I don't think Obsidian are any worse than anyone else.

[Sacred_Path]

This seems like an unfair criticism. The two games people tend to cite, KoTOR and New Vegas, as being symbolic of their bugginess were both the victim of heavy publisher meddling. Bethesda, particularly, really haven't ever heard of quality assurance. I don't think Obsidian are any worse than anyone else.

Actually, for me, the most iconic buggy OE game is NWN2, mostly because even now, it has the kinds of bugs and glitches I hate the most in an RPG, that is character abilities/ spells not working or not working as intended. It kind of takes the point out of building characters and employing tactics at all.

But one good reason why this may not be the case with P:E is that this time, they're implementing their own original (and created for computers) ruleset, rather than trying to stuff an entire edition of DnD into the game.

[Hormalakh]

The buggiest Obsidian game I played was the Black Hound.

[nikolokolus]

Dungeon Siege III was very light in the bugginess department ... I didn't particularly enjoy it, but it didn't crash and it didn't glitch.

[AW8]

I'm assuming they'll go for "just buggy enough that you sporadically clench your fist in rage, but not so buggy that you can justify leaving the game".

[Jarmo]

They have sort of addressed this.

 

Basically, with DS3 they didn't need to take a buggy pile of code and build on top of that,

instead built the game from scratch themselves and the result wasn't buggy at all. Or so people say.

Haven't played it myself, also gave up Alpha after the tutorial.

[Malekith]

Obsidian's reputation was mostly earned by their first two games, KOTOR 2 and NWN2. I don't say they are blameless since they accepted the contracts, but they didn't had much choice either. Alpha Protocol wasn't more buggy that most games nowdays, and DS3 was completely bugfree. New Vegas was a return to unstable games, but since not a single game in that ****ing engine was stable in the last 20 years, it's not Obsidian's fault.

It's just that because of their earlier reputation people expect bugs in an Obsidian game so they scrutinize their games way more than other's, and blew the whole matter out of proportion.

[Chaos Theory]

Fallout NV is one of my all-time favorite games, and despite the sporadic CTD, it wasn't THAT buggy for me.  NWN2, though-- that was an absolute mess on release.  I mean game-breaking ****.  Despite that, I still loved the game and wished they'd make a sequel.

[Leferd]

It's essentially inexcusable to have game breaking crashes for closed systems like consoles. All games have to clear testing by the developer, publisher, and Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo certifications. All hard and soft crashes have to be fixed before passing. It's extremely rare that I come across crashes on consoles and never from any Obsidian games.

 

That being said, CTD's and other bugs are essentially the price of doing business as a PC gamer. Too many hardware and software variables to ensure stability across the full spectrum.

 

From that article I linked earlier, Obsidian has changed their bug squashing practices and are using a dedicated bug tracking database system which is more inline with what larger publishers are using for their QA departments. This is hopeful, as we'll see a more systematic approach to bug tracking and fixing. -As opposed to what I'm guessing was more of an ad-hoc internal approach. This way, producers can more easily categorize, prioritize, and assign bugs to appropriate personnel as they are found.

 

What I am wondering though is...will they be hiring an internal QA staff towards during production? Or will they farm it out to third party?

[rjshae]

I don't care what software company you are talking about, if you don't wait for the second or third patch update then you are likely to run into significant bugs. I've played patched versions of FNV, KOTOR 1&2, and NWN2: they all worked fine for me.

[teknoman2]

[Faerunner]

This seems like an unfair criticism. The two games people tend to cite, KoTOR and New Vegas, as being symbolic of their bugginess were both the victim of heavy publisher meddling. Bethesda, particularly, really haven't ever heard of quality assurance. I don't think Obsidian are any worse than anyone else.

 

Agreed. I'd like to emphasis the publisher meddling part. When researching the work behind Obsidian games, I often read about how the designers had a lot of great ideas and designs, worked really hard, and honestly tried to make a quality product, but then the publishers or the copyright holders would rush, hinder, or veto the design process and they would be forced to push out a buggy, sub-par product that they didn't want to make, or were not allowed to fix.

 

Since it's the only one I've played, just look at the difference between NWN2 and MotB. The first was very buggy, bland and linear. Very funny, but also very safe, somewhat forgettable, and obviously rushed to release. Then the expansion came out, and it just exploded in quality writing, characters, aesthetics, graphical design, quest progression, and roleplaying choices that left people questioning if they were made by the same people.

 

When given free reign to design what and how they want, the designers of Black Isle turned Obsidian make fantastic games. Since they have the time, funding, resources and freedom to design the quality game they're passionate about, I have absolute faith that Project Eternity will be a great quality game.

[Aoyagi]

I would prefer feature-rich game with massive world with a lot of various things to do and many memorable characters and moments before bug-free release any day, thankyouverymuch. I trust Obsidian will try to sort out any post-release bugs as soon as they can, but I'm patient.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Aoyagi

[Malekith]

I would prefer feature-rich game with massive world with a lot of various things to do and many memorable characters and moments before bug-free release any day, thankyouverymuch. I trust Obsidian will try to sort out any post-release bugs as soon as they can, but I'm patient.

That. Bugs can be fixed, poor content can't. As long as the game isn't completely broken i don't mind.

But a bugfree PE will help Obsidian's reputation so...

Edited July 15, 2013 by Malekith

[Jarmo]

I'd prefer the worlds massiveness cut by a third,

several characters and quests removed if the remaining part would then be in high polish when released.

 

Much like the mentioned MotB.

Few characters, not all that many locations, shorter than OC by half. Didn't suffer for it.

[Delicieuxz]

http://kotaku.com/5968952/the-knights-of-new-vegas-how-obsidian-survived-countless-catastrophes-and-made-some-of-the-coolest-role+playing-games-ever

 

This article also covers that particular criticism.

That's a good read, thanks.

[Dream]

Dungeon Siege III was very light in the bugginess department ... I didn't particularly enjoy it, but it didn't crash and it didn't glitch.

 

That's because it was a linear console game; kind of hard to **** that up.

 

However just look at it's PC port: they couldn't even get the control scheme right.

[Rostere]

 

Dungeon Siege III was very light in the bugginess department ... I didn't particularly enjoy it, but it didn't crash and it didn't glitch.

 

That's because it was a linear console game; kind of hard to **** that up.

 

However just look at it's PC port: they couldn't even get the control scheme right.

 

 

I had no problem with the PC controls. Maybe you're just whiny?

[Agiel]

There is the concern that this might (no offense, Obsidian) go the way of the recent Double Fine Kickstarter and that Obsidian might find that despite the impressive Kickstarter numbers it won't cover the costs. Of course this is no massive budget game in which a team of animators might spend months on a single (albeit quite impressive) scripted scene a la Call of Duty; graphical fidelity isn't necessarily a priority for this form of game so the costs of asset development theoretically shouldn't be that high, but on the other hand, we might have thought the same way about a point-and-click adventure game  (an astounding figure I saw said that with all the money raised through Kickstarter Double Fine was only able to make 25% of the game they wanted to make, which seriously puts the prospect of raising enough money through post-release sales in doubt).

[C2B]

There is the concern that this might (no offense, Obsidian) go the way of the recent Double Fine Kickstarter and that Obsidian might find that despite the impressive Kickstarter numbers it won't cover the costs. Of course this is no massive budget game in which a team of animators might spend months on a single (albeit quite impressive) scripted scene a la Call of Duty; graphical fidelity isn't necessarily a priority for this form of game so the costs of asset development theoretically shouldn't be that high, but on the other hand, we might have thought the same way about a point-and-click adventure game  (an astounding figure I saw said that with all the money raised through Kickstarter Double Fine was only able to make 25% of the game they wanted to make, which seriously puts the prospect of raising enough money through post-release sales in doubt).

 

There might be concern, but I've gotta say alone on attidude so far Obsidian has been a lot more professional  so far when it comes to money than Double Fine. For example, I know some people are saying the documentary is worth it alone, but they went ridiculous in regard to production value on that.

 

And I have generally trust in Sawyer (especially) and Brennecke when it comes to management.

 

(That said, I do expect them to go a bit over budget. But, no stunts like only releasing part of the game so far)

[Karkarov]

Obsidian has released some buggy games no doubt about it.  Fallout New Vegas was easily the buggiest game I ever played and was even worse than Fallout 3, which is saying a lot.  That said it was still a good game.

 

I am sure PE will have some bugs, it is pretty much impossible to release a PC game without a few due to all the different hardware it will have to run on, different OS versions, etc etc.  As long as it is nothing game breaking like having an entire ending be blocked off because of a glitch that happened off screen hours ago that I never even saw a cause or effect of until it was too late.... then it should be fine.

 

Alpha Protocol, Dungeon Siege 3, and various other games Obsidian released games were pretty much bug free on day one outside of a few small issues.  So let's hope PE follows that route.

 

As for spending?  Don't make me laugh.  Double Fine is the most over rated over praised developer out there next to Valve.  They haven't made a game better than "slightly above average to average" in years, always go over budget (some of their fans actually say it is good they do?!?!?), and never release games on schedule.  The fact that they didn't meet their kickstarter promises and are breaking the game into two releases cause they have no management or organizational skills doesn't even surprise me a little bit.

 

Obsidian may make buggy games here and there, but the worst Obsidian games are at least as good as a normal Double Fine release, don't go over budget, and are normally on schedule.  Their best games though make Double Fine's best look like a joke, unless you are just a hard core adventure game fan.