Hurlshort Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 There are plenty of consequences. The dad who arrested the boyfriend was suspended. The UC Davis cop was put in prison. Cops lose their jobs over brutality allegations on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 UC Davis cop just lost his job, as near as a quick Google revealed - no charges against him. Cops losing their jobs over allegations, well I'll have to see that to believe it. And the dad that arrested the boyfriend for his BS reasoning should have lost his job, not just a suspension. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) Ah, I was confusing the bart cop with the davis cop. So he lost his job for pepper spraying, that sounds about right. You guys are pretty quick to drop the axe on people. Hopefully you hold yourself to the same standard in your own career. There is an entire procedure for filing complaints against cops, and most departments have an entire division committed to investigating officers. It may not always work, but you folks make it sound like they've got free reign to loot and pillage. Edited July 5, 2013 by Hurlshot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Hopefully you hold yourself to the same standard in your own career. If I started pepper spraying our developers or support teams, I would probably be out of a job pretty soon 3 “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Hopefully you hold yourself to the same standard in your own career.If I started pepper spraying our developers or support teams, I would probably be out of a job pretty soon I am really ok with that guy losing his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Ah, I was confusing the bart cop with the davis cop. So he lost his job for pepper spraying, that sounds about right. You guys are pretty quick to drop the axe on people. Hopefully you hold yourself to the same standard in your own career. There is an entire procedure for filing complaints against cops, and most departments have an entire division committed to investigating officers. It may not always work, but you folks make it sound like they've got free reign to loot and pillage. Needlessly spraying people with pepper spray and that's all eh ? No point being snarky just because I think that to those much is given, much is expected. If I started pepper spraying our developers or support teams, I would probably be out of a job pretty soon What kind of fascists do you work for ?! Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Hurlie, Cops should be held to a higher standard than the average joe. They're endowed with extrordinary ability to deal with people and they should be expected to wield that power (and authority) responsibly. At McDonalds I had the authority to toss somebody out but only used it a grand total of one time, because that was the only time it was actually warranted. My point isn't that there aren't bad situations or areas where being a cop is terrible. My point is that as police officers, it's their job to suck it up and deal with it. Excusing activity that'd be considered illegal and/or brutality because "hey, they're in a rough area" just leads to things becoming more polarized, and creates and atmosphere where it becomes increasingly easy to bend the rules to get your way. I'm not of the opinion that you need to "teach somebody a lesson" physically to get your point across. Some people do which is why you end up with cases of police abusing their power. I personally got threatened by a El Dorado County Sherriff with being charged with "terrorist threats" because he thought that was the easiest way for me to go along with what he wanted. And Gorth, I don't think you can pepper spray anyone... You can brutalize people with a ban hammer but that's about it. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 If I started pepper spraying our developers or support teams, I would probably be out of a job pretty soon What kind of fascists do you work for ?! Welcome to multinational, corporate culture! Edit to add: And Gorth, I don't think you can pepper spray anyone... You can brutalize people with a ban hammer but that's about it. I wouldn't really presume to compare being a cop with being a mod. Yes, you get to listen to a bit of verbal abuse on very rare occasions, but honestly, most of the time you (i.e. me) get flak for what you post as a community member, nothing else. I do have a number of relatives in the police force, from prison wardens to intelligence service and the stories they tell makes your skin crawl. I don't envy them their jobs or what they sometimes have to "suck it up". “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 "The dad who arrested the boyfriend was suspended." he should have been ****canned. And, to comapre cops to other jobs. When is crew up at work (I never do lol), nobody can die. Plus, there is a difference between making a MISTAKE and taking out your weapon and physically assaulting someone, or abusing your badge because you have a ahrdon for your daughter's boyfriend. Those are not mistakes.Making a mistake would misfiling paperwork or sleeping in. Those are not enccessarily fire worthy for any job but the other things/ Absolutely. If I starting beating up at any job I would lose it. Period. Cops are supposed to uphold the law. Not break it or abuse it. Capiche? DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I'm getting the impression from some people that someone, in general, saying they have no beef with police officers, is an implicit consent to the officers that go too far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Yes, the amount of over reactive vitriol in this thread is astounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Yes, the amount of over reactive vitriol in this thread is astounding. I'll admit to having a bias, it's very frustrating to me that there are tax funded criminal running about against who you are not allowed to defend yourself and that there is little chance of legal action taken against them. I'm aware that there are decent people in the service, although at the same time I feel there is something very flawed about the system if a cop like Donner who had and exemplary service record and character references felt that his only recourse was to go on a cop killing spree. Plus, i'm disappointing that there were no reforms that rose from that incident. I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Donner was targetting the families of police officers, he he hardly seems like a reliable character witness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
licketysplit Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Yes, the amount of over reactive vitriol in this thread is astounding. I'll admit to having a bias, it's very frustrating to me that there are tax funded criminal running about against who you are not allowed to defend yourself and that there is little chance of legal action taken against them. I'm aware that there are decent people in the service, although at the same time I feel there is something very flawed about the system if a cop like Donner who had and exemplary service record and character references felt that his only recourse was to go on a cop killing spree. Plus, i'm disappointing that there were no reforms that rose from that incident. There are far more criminals in the general population than in the police force, unless you live in some sort of autocratic police state. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 "Donner was targetting the families of police officers, he he hardly seems like a reliable character witness" Holy moly, I agree! Donner was a pyshopathic murderering scumbag. He was one of those peice of crap cops who don't deserve to wear the unfiorm. "There are far more criminals in the general population than in the police force, unless you live in some sort of autocratic police state." True or not, this is totally irrelevant. I expect much more from the police than random people. When you put on the uniform you should 'serve and protect' not 'harass and intimidate'. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I agree that police officers should be held to a high standard. I also believe the should be given respect until they fail to meet that standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 And one of the points that's attempting to be made is that they aren't up to that standard. Instead of people being held to a higher standard, it seems like the cops are operating reverse of what they should (guilty until proven innocent) and see their badges as something that lets them skip around on the law. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) And one of the points that's attempting to be made is that they aren't up to that standard. Instead of people being held to a higher standard, it seems like the cops are operating reverse of what they should (guilty until proven innocent) and see their badges as something that lets them skip around on the law. As a whole? I would need to see more evidence that police officers as a whole are not up to that standard. alanschu already pointed out that the day to day good cop stuff simply doesn't make the news. All the high profile cases we've talked about have resulted in the officers losing their jobs or worse. I know quite a few cops, they all take their jobs seriously and they are the kind of people I would want to show up at my door if I needed help. None of them fit some bully archetype that malcador keeps ranting about. If you have a bad experience with a police officer, you can actually make his/her life miserable. Filing a complaint is just the first step, as nkkk illustrated in that other thread, you can file lawsuits and use the media to put pressure on the department. edit: I tried to look up the detail on the cop who arrested her daughter's boyfriend, it doesn't say what happened after the investigation. He was suspended, and faced either additional training or termination. He also was sued by the parents. Edited July 5, 2013 by Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 The primary problem with police is their tendency to defend the bad apples. Expecting there to be no bad apples is unrealistic but in a (more) ideal world police would report corruption, brutality, evidence fabrication etc themselves. In practise the tendency is to close ranks and defend anything done by the police simply because it is done by the police, which ironically is exactly the sort of thing police condemn strongly in domestic violence or gang cases. I have no doubt that most police in most places are absolutely fine, it's the bad apples- and especially the tendency for even the good apples to protect the bad ones- that is the problem. A policeman who was instrumental in an absolute frame up (of Arthur Allan Thomas) was described as having "integrity beyond reproach" by the deputy commissioner here (our #2 cop, basically) and got a full police funeral. And that for someone who was bent as a paper clip. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadySands Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) I used to have a lot more respect for the police but when my cousin became a cop in my home town and I got more of an insiders point of view of what was going on I quickly lost a lot of that. I know that they aren't all bad and I've actually met some really good ones but now I just assume the worst and hope to be proven wrong Edited July 5, 2013 by ShadySands 1 Free games updated 3/4/21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obyknven Posted July 5, 2013 Author Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) America has some of the worst crime in the world. Our police labor under extreme and constant stress in high crime areas. They see the absolute worst of humanity on a daily basis. Random cell phone camera footage is mostly good for showing things out of context. Half of the police 'brutality' clips out there are caused by idiots resisting arrest or just plain asking for it. As for the dogs getting shot, that can and should be avoided by using pepper spray. All police are equipped with it, shooting them is rarely necessary.Wrong. Real reason only one. They are loosers and cowards. In any situation they begin shoot everywhere because so scary. http://youtu.be/v0Lq60aGoY0 Edited July 5, 2013 by obyknven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 That female cop is trying to protect her partner, who is getting pummeled. All she has is a night stick (I'm not familiar enough with Finnish police, but are they security guards?) and she is not doing any damage against that guy with it. I would consider her justified in shooting him. Protocol would dictate that she should warn him she will fire if he does not move away from her partner and get down on the ground. None of these scenarios are a simply fist fight between an officer and a citizen, I don't know where you are getting that. These are aggressive guys resisting arrest. Also, people die in fistfights. This isn't a video game, unarmed attackers can do plenty of damage to a cop. If you want to show me a scenario where the cop starts the fight, I'll call them a bad cop. Which Finnish police are we talking here, I seem to have missed something? Finnish police have 9mm pistols, CS spray, nightsticks/telescopic batons, most patrols also have tazers and or SMGs, some patrol units will have further specialist gear due to local/national SWAT teams spending a part of their duty time on regular patrols. But generally a skilled person can use a baton so that it causes maximal short-term discomfort with no long term harm. For example, naked people are almost impossible to subdue using lighter tactics simply because you just can't get a hold of them. I suggest you try this with a willing partner, it can be quite fun to try when your life isn't on the line. So, what were we talking about so that I can comment the individual case? You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I'm a little alarmed by the feeling I'm in a time warp. Is this 1967? If it is how are you using the internet? What is so appealing about having an us and them attitude about cops? If you don't take that attitude surely it's just common sense to accept that they are government employees like any other. They misbehave, they break the law. The point is what happens when they do. Part of that is down to you. And guess what? Treating the whole profession as evil doesn't help it actively makes things worse. Imagine if I started a 'teenagers are s***' thread? You'd say I was mental. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Imagine if I started a 'teenagers are s***' thread? You'd say I was mental. You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadySands Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) I may have possibly been a teenager once so I can agree that they are generally ****. Honestly, I think you would see just as much if not more us vs them from the actual police. I'm also willing to concede that maybe the local police that I grew up with are just much worse than your average cops. Edited July 5, 2013 by ShadySands Free games updated 3/4/21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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