Fear of women body in modern videogames

[Cultist]

Also, good God, that romance thread is still around.

We failed to extinguish this EaWare abomination before it could spread the infection

[rjshae]

I'd like to see what happens if the cheesecake factor in a game only becomes available via DLC. Would the consumers pay extra for it?

[Keyrock]

I'd like to see what happens if the cheesecake factor in a game only becomes available via DLC. Would the consumers pay extra for it?

Project: Eternity - Project: Sexy DLC

 

Featuring HAWT Orlan *****es!

 

Edited June 6, 2013 by Keyrock

[Malcador]

Project: Eternity - Project: Sexy DLC

 

Double DLC.

[Keyrock]

 

Project: Eternity - Project: Sexy DLC

 

Double DLC.

 

Congratulations, sir.  You just won the internet.

 

Edited June 6, 2013 by Keyrock

[Cultist]

IT'S A CONSPIRACY!

[obyknven]

For better understanding of this reduction of sexuality in videogames we must remember history. TRPG's  appeared as part of progressive counterculture in times of sexual revolution.  This escapism is some sort of rebellion against conformist society, and first TRPG has been fulfilled by sexy bodies. First videogames inherit sexuality from tabletop games, they also has been part of counterculture (From geeks for geeks ). But  tabletop and videogames after become part of conformist culture, mainstream, and because religious morality (all main modern religions don't like such manifestations of life, read moar in "On The Genealogy of Morality" by Friedrich Nietzsche )  sexuality is banned now. Now it's time of cultural regress, and Obsidian become part of this. 

 

P.S. About  practical > sexy. This armor anyway is not practical, IRL fullplate fast evolyutionize into cuirass.

And in some places practical = sexy yet.

[alanschu]

 

I think it's less a fear of boobs and more a better grounding in reality and respect.  It's likely also symptomatic of gaming demographics changing.

 

I hear what you are saying Alan but do you really think that the outfits of  characters like Viconia and Isabella are disrespectful to women?

 

 

You have to look at the reasoning for it.  I like Isabela.  I think she's a strong character, and the clothes she wears fit her character.  Many, MANY people have (incorrectly) dismissed her as nothing more than a sexpot.  Part of what makes Isabela's character interesting as a female character is that she's written and created as a sexual creature not specifically to be sexually appealing to males.  She's dressed that way because that's the type of character that she is, and it's consistent with her character in that game.

 

 

If Isabela looked the way that she did, but did not have the character to go along with it in an appropriate way, yes I would have considered it disrespectful and unnecessary.  It's would come across as (yet another example of) pandering to a very specific target audience.  I don't think this is necessary, and actually think it's a net negative to growing and expanding gaming in general.  That said, I do consider Isabela's dimensions to be a bit outlandish.  Her dress and attire would still work (and be sexy) even had things been scaled down somewhat.  BioWare is hardly exempt of this, and it's something I do hope changes some more.  Something like Aribeth, however, is the type of thing that makes me roll my eyes.  I didn't mind it much a decade ago, but I think it's pretty stupid now.

 

 

I have no basis for Viconia's outfit, however.  The only one I know of is this:

[Keyrock]

For better understanding of this reduction of sexuality in videogames we must remember history. TRPG's  appeared as part of progressive counterculture in times of sexual revolution.  This escapism is some sort of rebellion against conformist society, and first TRPG has been fulfilled by sexy bodies. First videogames inherit sexuality from tabletop games, they also has been part of counterculture (From geeks for geeks ). But  tabletop and videogames after become part of conformist culture, mainstream, and because religious morality (all main modern religions don't like such manifestations of life, read moar in "On The Genealogy of Morality" by Friedrich Nietzsche )  sexuality is banned now. Now it's time of cultural regress, and Obsidian become part of this. 

 

P.S. About  practical > sexy. This armor anyway is not practical, IRL fullplate fast evolyutionize into cuirass.

And in some places practical = sexy yet.

She'll be real happy she wore that outfit if she dumps it. 

[alanschu]

As a motorcycle rider, as physically attractive as that woman may come across, she loses a near infinite number of points for clearly being stupid.

 

Perhaps I speak too emotionally, as motorcycle accidents strike a bit close to home for me, but I think my uncle put it quite eloquently.  People who ride like that are just skin donors.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

TRPG's  appeared as part of progressive counterculture in times of sexual revolution.  This escapism is some sort of rebellion against conformist society, and first TRPG has been fulfilled by sexy bodies. First videogames inherit sexuality from tabletop games, they also has been part of counterculture (From geeks for geeks ). But  tabletop and videogames after become part of conformist culture, mainstream, and because religious morality (all main modern religions don't like such manifestations of life, read moar in "On The Genealogy of Morality" by Friedrich Nietzsche )  sexuality is banned now. Now it's time of cultural regress, and Obsidian become part of this. 

 

 

 

No offense, but this really doesn't make any sense.

[Sacred_Path]

obyknven is the only person I want to see the sexism in vidya games issue tackled by. He's the troll to end all trolling.

[AGX-17]

Typical that obyknven wouldn't know Cadegund no longer has a torpedo-tit breastplate due to popular demand from P:E backers.

[BruceVC]

 

 

I think it's less a fear of boobs and more a better grounding in reality and respect.  It's likely also symptomatic of gaming demographics changing.

 

I hear what you are saying Alan but do you really think that the outfits of  characters like Viconia and Isabella are disrespectful to women?

 

 

You have to look at the reasoning for it.  I like Isabela.  I think she's a strong character, and the clothes she wears fit her character.  Many, MANY people have (incorrectly) dismissed her as nothing more than a sexpot.  Part of what makes Isabela's character interesting as a female character is that she's written and created as a sexual creature not specifically to be sexually appealing to males.  She's dressed that way because that's the type of character that she is, and it's consistent with her character in that game.

 

 

If Isabela looked the way that she did, but did not have the character to go along with it in an appropriate way, yes I would have considered it disrespectful and unnecessary.  It's would come across as (yet another example of) pandering to a very specific target audience.  I don't think this is necessary, and actually think it's a net negative to growing and expanding gaming in general.  That said, I do consider Isabela's dimensions to be a bit outlandish.  Her dress and attire would still work (and be sexy) even had things been scaled down somewhat.  BioWare is hardly exempt of this, and it's something I do hope changes some more.  Something like Aribeth, however, is the type of thing that makes me roll my eyes.  I didn't mind it much a decade ago, but I think it's pretty stupid now.

 

 

I have no basis for Viconia's outfit, however.  The only one I know of is this:

 

 

You make some good points, just for the record I have  several lady friends who work out regularly at gym. When they go out they sometimes wear boots, mini-skirts and tops that compliment there features. They look really attractive and they enjoy looking good. There attire is similar to Isabella and sometimes when we have out door parties near lakes or rivers  they wear bikini tops with hotpants. They would be insulted and laugh at me if I suggested what they are wearing is demeaning to women. I know you aren't saying this I am just questioning the view that a women wearing clothes like Isabella is really unnecessary? Even if a lady wants to wear clothes like this if they feel comfortable?

[HoonDing]

Fun fact: Viconia's BG2 portrait is a traced over picture of an Ukrainian Penthouse model.

[Drowsy Emperor]

I'd like to see what happens if the cheesecake factor in a game only becomes available via DLC. Would the consumers pay extra for it?

 

Are you seriously asking that question since Tomb Raider's nude patch?

 

If I had a dime for every download of that I'd be a rich man now.

[Keyrock]

Fun fact: Viconia's BG2 portrait is a traced over picture of an Ukrainian Penthouse model

 

 

Bioware - Using stock photographs for female characters since 2000.  Tali'Zorah vas Normandy, you are not alone.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Keyrock

[Drowsy Emperor]

In these topics its only the men debating the respectfulness of clevage revealing outfits.

 

Women on the other hand see their **** every day in front of the mirror. They couldn't care less.

[Keyrock]

I have to look at my **** every day in front of the mirror too.  I'm just I happy I can still see it.  My stomach hasn't gotten that large yet.

[Agiel]

Having read through what was at a glance about 1/4 through the original post before doubling over laughing, I'll try to offer my thoughts on the matter.

 

I play just about every kind of game under the sun. MMO with stripperific outfits? Story-based FPSes? Deep cRPGs? Even hardcore mil-sims I play them all. As a sex-positive feminist, while the industry certainly shouldn't inundate it with, rule of sexy has its place in the medium of video games. I greatly admire George Kamitani for his work on Odin Sphere and Muramasa: The Demon Blade, and there are hardly lead designers who are as involved with the artistic side as they are with the gameplay design side in the industry, and as an artist myself, I can feel for him when someone harangues him over his art.

 

And honestly, sometimes the whole crusade against stripperific outfits reeks of people trying to gain progressive cred on the internet. Take for instance this topic on the Torment: ToN suggestions forum (you may need to be a backer to see it). Someone complains about a lady character showing a bit of cleavage in an arctic environment, while conveniently ignoring the male character right next to her that's utterly shirtless (both designs are totally fine in my book). 

 

There are feminist causes over the medium much worth fighting for. For instance, out of morbid curiosity (alas, it shall be the end of me one of these days), I tried to gauge 4chan's opinions on the Anita Sarkeesian affair. The result left me dry-heaving all over my monitor.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Agiel

[Tigranes]

I'm fine with boobs in games, I just wish they weren't so freaking huge, it feels like I'm looking at a three-headed monster.

[alanschu]

They couldn't care less.

 

 

Patently false.  Their influence is in large part why these changes are happening.  I know some here feel that gaming is still a very male thing, and while males are still the majority demographic, the internet has made a stage for minorities to more easily be heard.

 

I met my fair share of FemShep's at Calgary's Comic Con just over a month ago.  Part of the reason why FemShep resonates so strongly with them is because they love how strong of a female lead FemShep can be.  She has the option to dress in very attractive formal wear and the like, but leads her soldiers as the fans feel would be an appropriate way.

 

You are free to believe that these people just don't care, but I'd say you're wrong.  Same goes for places like The Mary Sue which is a geek site dedicated to geek women, and why so many women get behind the Hawkeye initiative.

[HoonDing]

I think his point was that the silent majority (90% of people who play video games) doesn't care.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Drudanae

[alanschu]

Given that his full line was:

 

 

 

Women on the other hand see their **** every day in front of the mirror. They couldn't care less.

 

I'd disagree.

 

 

The fallacy that he used, was in the first line:

 

 

 

In these topics its only the men debating the respectfulness of clevage revealing outfits.

 

Go to The Mary Sue and start a topic like this, and you'll get more opinion from women.

 

 

As for the ratio, I don't actually know what the demographics are.  Most may not "care" in the same way that I can still playthrough NWN despite Aribeth's armor.  I'd agree that most don't care... enough to bother posting about it.  Because most don't care to post about anything at all.  Does their lack of concern about being active internet users immediately imply that they aren't concerned about anything else?

 

I'd disagree.

[Drowsy Emperor]

You're proving my point.

 

It will take a woman to disprove it.

 

You're not one, even if you act like it.