Nonek Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 Can we appraise Mr Longs writing from his time with the Black Library? One suspects that working for that publishing house necessitates certain stylistic changes that might not best display his talents, personally I read one of his latest Slayer novels and the prose seems solid if unoriginal, maybe an indicator of his working to a fairly strict template. After all the Warhammer fantasy novel I read was my youngest lads, and seems eminently suitable for such an audience. Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot!
melkathi Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 so one bad writer out of a dozen means the whole project is doomed? internet critics so critical If the reason to back the project is the hope for the kind of writing one enjoys, then the team having writers one doesn't enjoy is, in my opinion, the best reason not to back it. After all, I have yet to meet a person who believes Planescape Torment was the most awesome game ever gameplay wise and needs a spiritual successor on those grounds. The word "doom" was of your choosing by the way. The question is whether we believe it is a project we personaly will enjoy - though maybe for you it's more a question of whether everyone else on the internet will share your taste Can we appraise Mr Longs writing from his time with the Black Library? One suspects that working for that publishing house necessitates certain stylistic changes that might not best display his talents, personally I read one of his latest Slayer novels and the prose seems solid if unoriginal, maybe an indicator of his working to a fairly strict template. After all the Warhammer fantasy novel I read was my youngest lads, and seems eminently suitable for such an audience. In general I feel Black Library has been loosing quality as a whole. And in my opinion the Slayer novels should never have gone past the original short stories that fit the characters - Games Workshop chose to milk the franchise for cash and Mr. Long is the person they paid to do so - a dirty job but someone has to do it, I'm sure. Still, I for one felt that there was a distinct drop in quality between the last Slayer novel written by King and the first written by Long. Though my opinion is admittedly biased, as I am a fan of the old games workshop writers from the early days. Unobtrusively informing you about my new ebook (which you should feel free to read and shower with praise).
Nonek Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 Personally I only usually peruse the 40k literature, but I would agree with you that the quality there has dropped over the years, there used to be some exemplary writers dabbling their toes in the Imperium a few years past, Ian Watson and such. Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot!
Bester Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 Good to know. This is my sliding scale of social puissance/maladaption: Well Adjusted > Quirky > Odd > Bizarre > Broken > Useless. As such, when I heard "broken" my mind conjured up visions of a lot of hand holding and other such aggravating nonsense. I don't envision very many of my characters as shrinks or social workers, so I found that world alarming. There was no hand holding in Planescape Torment. Even the times when you assisted/guided npcs on their personal journey to less-brokeness, it was very much optional, far from having a whining Alistair forced onto you and took more the form of discovering a neat new facet. In fact, I remember actually wanting and waiting with excitement for some of my NPCs to talk to me. But they talked oh so little for my tastes. IE Mod for Pillars of Eternity: link
aluminiumtrioxid Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 Got the latest update, and I'm considering asking for my money back. NOT IMPRESSED. I mean the example story given, is a steaming no, screaming pile of ****. Obvious and trite. Mr. Long doesn't inspire me with confidence either. His resume speaks against him. While I agree with you, the story was invented on-the-fly, and thus, is subject to some polishing (hopefully by more talented writers than Mr. Long); not to mention the fact that even a fairly simple premise can lead to an enjoyable experience given the unique strengths of the medium (immersion and reactivity). Also, if the characters are written well, I can see the possibility of this story becoming fairly engaging. Besides, it has more of a "side-quest" vibe In that category, you don't really need more than this. 2 "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."
Meshugger Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 Got the latest update, and I'm considering asking for my money back. NOT IMPRESSED. I mean the example story given, is a steaming no, screaming pile of ****. Obvious and trite. Mr. Long doesn't inspire me with confidence either. His resume speaks against him. My sarcasm detector just exploded. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
WorstUsernameEver Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 inXile/Obsidian bromance continues to flourish Can you explain exactly what changed though? I thought they did this already before. IIRC initially it mostly consisted of Obsidian letting inXile take a look at their tools for WL2. Although really, the announcement is just remarking something that was a natural evolution of the relationship between the two companies.
Meshugger Posted April 1, 2013 Posted April 1, 2013 Fortress of Regrets! oh wait.... "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Lord of Lost Socks Posted April 1, 2013 Posted April 1, 2013 Looks neat! My thoughts on how character powers and urgency could be implemented: http://forums.obsidi...nse-of-urgency/
WorstUsernameEver Posted April 1, 2013 Posted April 1, 2013 The update contains the larger version. It's obviously super-early, but it's looking good.
C2B Posted April 1, 2013 Posted April 1, 2013 I don't think its looking as good as Project: Eternity's (And I'm not talking about art direction. Multiple parts of it look blurry and detail-less, especially compared to the shrine), that said still looks awesome and tormenty.
Sensuki Posted April 1, 2013 Posted April 1, 2013 I don't think the Torment one is hand-painted like P:E's is. However compared to the unpainted P:E one it's certainly better than that. Also different art styles. 1
C2B Posted April 1, 2013 Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) I don't think the Torment one is hand-painted like P:E's is. However compared to the unpainted P:E one it's certainly better than that. Also different art styles. P:E isn't handpainted either. They are done the same way. And what unpainted P:E one? And again, didn't talk about art style (which is awesome) Edited April 1, 2013 by C2B
WorstUsernameEver Posted April 1, 2013 Posted April 1, 2013 I don't think the Torment one is hand-painted like P:E's is. However compared to the unpainted P:E one it's certainly better than that. Also different art styles.I honestly don't know what you're talking about?
AwesomeOcelot Posted April 1, 2013 Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) Project Eternity's mock-up was heavily touched up by hand using a paint tool in Photoshop or similar program. This background has way more complex geometry and I don't think it's been painted over like the Project Eternity mock-up, it's more like a 3D model that's been textured and rendered. It looks like a shot from a real-time engine, which is what InXile have been producing. Perhaps they don't have the people available to spend the time to paint over the shot, they might be working on Wasteland 2 or InXile might need to hire extra 2D artists, maybe that great 2D concept art from the beginning of the campaign was outsourced work. Edited April 1, 2013 by AwesomeOcelot
WorstUsernameEver Posted April 1, 2013 Posted April 1, 2013 Project Eternity's mock-up was heavily touched up by hand using a paint tool in Photoshop or similar program. It's way more complex geometry and I don't think it's been painting over like the Project Eternity mock-up, it's more like a 3D model that's been textured and rendered. It looks like a shot from a real-time engine, which is what InXile have been producing. Perhaps they don't have the people available to spend the time to paint over the shot, they might be working on Wasteland 2 or InXile might need to hire extra 2D artists, maybe that great 2D concept art from the beginning of the campaign was outsourced work.The shot is 2d, just like Eternity and the process inXile and Obsidian are using for their pre-rendered environment is basically the same. There are also places where the shot is kind of obviously touched up (blurry background is obviously 2d/concept art-ish, some of the lighting sources on the far right seem like they've been painted over later, etc.) The Project Eternity screenshot went through the same process and that's the only screen I remember, aside from obviously spartan stuff like untextured test environments.
C2B Posted April 1, 2013 Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) Project Eternity's mock-up was heavily touched up by hand using a paint tool in Photoshop or similar program. It's way more complex geometry and I don't think it's been painting over like the Project Eternity mock-up, it's more like a 3D model that's been textured and rendered. It looks like a shot from a real-time engine, which is what InXile have been producing. Perhaps they don't have the people available to spend the time to paint over the shot, they might be working on Wasteland 2 or InXile might need to hire extra 2D artists, maybe that great 2D concept art from the beginning of the campaign was outsourced work. What we are presenting here, for the sake of conversation, is an example of a 2D pre-rendered environment within The Bloom. And *touched up* in that eternity screenshot is how it will be ingame. Its how it was in infinity game. Its how it most likely is in the Torment screenshot. That said, yeah its early. And I'm not really complaining. Just comparing. As said, its great!. Edited April 1, 2013 by C2B
AwesomeOcelot Posted April 1, 2013 Posted April 1, 2013 To me the bottom left clearly looks like 3D models that have been textured. I'm not saying that there hasn't been post editing, but it's no where near as much or as detailed as Project Eternity's was.
WorstUsernameEver Posted April 1, 2013 Posted April 1, 2013 To me the bottom left clearly looks like 3D models that have been textured. I'm not saying that there hasn't been post editing, but it's no where near as much or as detailed as Project Eternity's was.Of course, Project Eternity had 3d models with textures too... that's how pre-rendered works.
AwesomeOcelot Posted April 1, 2013 Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) Of course there was 3D models. I'm aware of how it was made. I'm suggesting that the process is different in terms of the post editing, it's clearly different, they don't look the same. That and the TToN background has more complex geometry, and less foliage made with a plugin, InXile probably needed way more time to get it close to Obsidian's standard. Edited April 1, 2013 by AwesomeOcelot
WorstUsernameEver Posted April 1, 2013 Posted April 1, 2013 Of course there was 3D models. I'm aware of how it was made. I'm suggesting that the process is different in terms of the post editing, it's clearly different, they don't look the same.I honestly don't know the specifics of inXile's process though I'd assume that indeed it's different given that they're going for another art style. I don't think the image you used proves your point at all, because aside from the obvious more organic and detailed look of the picture after a paint-over, the 3d models and their textures look roughly the same in the latter stages of the process. I don't know whether that depends from inXile's source art being of lower quality (inXile has been non-committal about 2d art until today, and this screenshot was likely used for quick tests too), different camera (closer?) or because of the filters/solution they've used, I don't know. 1
Keyrock Posted April 1, 2013 Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) Looks purrrrdy. I'm glad they're going 2D background with 3D characters rather than all 3D like Wasteland 2. Edited April 1, 2013 by Keyrock RFK Jr 2024 "Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks
Sensuki Posted April 1, 2013 Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) I don't think the Torment one is hand-painted like P:E's is. However compared to the unpainted P:E one it's certainly better than that. Also different art styles.I honestly don't know what you're talking about? Sorry I meant touched up by hand. There was a post about "the making of the Project Eternity screenshot" where they showed various stages of completion of the screenshot, including the final pass before the artist touch-up, which had a more glossy look. Icewind Dale (and Planescape Torment?) were touched up by hand. Baldur's Gate was not. The screenshot from Torment: Tides of Numenera does not appear to have an artist touch it up by hand. It's the rendering of some 3D modelling with some post editing, as mentioned above. Both screenshots look great, and they're both going for different styles. Edited April 1, 2013 by Sensuki
Hurlshort Posted April 1, 2013 Posted April 1, 2013 To be honest, I saw the screenshot and decided to cancel my pledge. I wasn't super into it to begin with, but I just think this setting doesn't appeal to me. I wasn't a huge fan of the Planescape setting either, so I think it is just me. I have a lot of other stuff pledged, and this isn't hurting for pledges, so I think it's the right choice.
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