JadedWolf Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Pretty unbelievable stuff this. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21768668 TL:DR version: Nixon told the South Vietnamese delegation at the Paris peace talks not to negotiate a peace until Nixon would be in power, promising them a better deal. Lyndon Johnson knew of this because the South-Vietnamese embassy was wiretapped, but didn't want to disclose the wiretap. Democratic rival in the presidential elections Humphrey was notified, but decided he would win anyway. What a mistake to make. Now, I have no idea whether the Vietnam war could have ended sooner (and under better terms for the Americans) had this not happened, but just the thought of it... Wow. Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Just to get this straight. Nixon didn't have a better deal, bombed Laos and Cambodia and delayed the whole thing five years? And Johnsson was silent? WHY? 1 "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Elected politicians, It seems a universal law: Much overrated and little trustworthiness. 3 “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 If this is true, not judging one way or another, I'm not surprised. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmp10 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Wasn't this common knowledge? Pretty sure I heard about it in an old documentary. As for ending the war the solution was always very simple: US needed to give-up much sooner or nuke North Vietnam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgon Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 If this is true, not judging one way or another, I'm not surprised. It is true. It's declassified whitehouse tapes among other things. It was always going to come out. The gruesome thing about it of course is that the Vietnamese were ready to sign a deal and an immensely destructive bombing campaign went on needlessly because of Nixon's backhand dealings. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOK222 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 It's a good thing he's dead, because oh boy Ka-ka-ka-ka-Cocaine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rostere Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 So, what do you think, how many years will it take before it's official that Reagan sabotaged Iran hostage talks under Jimmy Carter in the same way? "Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Now that would suprise me. Not because of any misplaced faith in Reagans Presidency but becuase that kind of thing would be so much harder to keep quiet in 1980 than in 1968. Now it would be impossible. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgon Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I wonder if history would have judged Carter a lot kinder if those helicopters hadn't crashed. A forgein policy success and a heroic one at that at just the right moment. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 This also illustrates how ridiculous the South Vietnamese government was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Just to get this straight. Nixon didn't have a better deal, bombed Laos and Cambodia and delayed the whole thing five years? And Johnsson was silent? WHY? Domino theory. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjshae Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Tricky dicky was a sneaky bastard. Nothing new there. "It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Now that would suprise me. Not because of any misplaced faith in Reagans Presidency but becuase that kind of thing would be so much harder to keep quiet in 1980 than in 1968. Now it would be impossible. I do not think Reagan himself was involved, but like the Iran-Contra affair, i think that there were suspect members of his cabinet that had potential to do so. From what i could gather about his personality, he did put to too much trust on the people within his administration. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGX-17 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) Just to get this straight. Nixon didn't have a better deal, bombed Laos and Cambodia and delayed the whole thing five years? And Johnsson was silent? WHY?Because politicians, capitalism and racism. Simple, really. A righteous capitalist crusade to civilize the inferior yellow races of Asia, misled by the vile communists, to spread the one true religion of capitalism appealed to the "silent majority." The entire cold war was an exercise in the US engaging in anti-democratic covert operations around the world. Democratically elected governments that were leftist were overthrown by US backed fascist coups left and right for 30-40 odd years. Hell, it was like that long before then. The US overthrew the democratically elected government of Honduras at one point so that it could be used as a corporate banana plantation colony by Dole. Now that would suprise me. Not because of any misplaced faith in Reagans Presidency but becuase that kind of thing would be so much harder to keep quiet in 1980 than in 1968. Now it would be impossible. I do not think Reagan himself was involved, but like the Iran-Contra affair, i think that there were suspect members of his cabinet that had potential to do so. From what i could gather about his personality, he did put to too much trust on the people within his administration. He supported the Contras openly. Selling weapons to Iran is secondary to the fact that the US, and Reagan, prolonged a vicious civil war in Nicaragua, with at least tens of thousands of human deaths involved. I know the man was a dimwit, but regardless, he was a True Believer in the Hayekian/Randian worldview. He's the one who shredded benefits for the mentally ill and Vietnam veterans, putting them out on the street with little/no resources, in a country that now hated them for actions they had no control over. Ronald Reagan was still the man at the top, and he had a lot of Nicaraguan blood on his hands when he died. I doubt he lost a wink of sleep over it, too. Alzheimer's or not. Fun fact: Ronald Reagan is still the most hated, vilified person in Nicaragua to this day. Edited March 18, 2013 by AGX-17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I wonder if history would have judged Carter a lot kinder if those helicopters hadn't crashed. A forgein policy success and a heroic one at that at just the right moment.If Eagle Claw succeeded there'd be nothing to wonder. Carter'd be the guy who sent commandos in and nabbed hostages out a hostile country safely. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Note that a helicopter crashed also during the Bin Laden assault. Must be an American thing. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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