Torment: Tides of Numenera?

[Pandamaniac]

 

Also, if I were a crazy betting panda, I would put money on Avellone being a stretch goal. It isn't like InXile hasn't done that before.

 

How many projects can a single man work before he gets burnt out? Doesn't the man already have Wasteland 2 and P:E on his plate?

Since he is more of an Ideas/writing guy, most of his work is done relatively early in the process. To quote Brian Fargo: 

 

At this point we are at approximately the halfway point in the development cycle for Wasteland 2. I have us on a 6/6/6 plan, which had us finish all the pre-production including all the heavy lifting on design for the first 6 months.

 

The second 6 months is all about integration of the assets such that we can fully play through and get a total sense of the experience. And the last 6 months is one in which we focus on iteration of the ideas, build in more nuance and get  the feedback from beta testers in.

 

They are halfway through development on WL2, so he should be largely done with it.

[Greensleeve]

 

Also, if I were a crazy betting panda, I would put money on Avellone being a stretch goal. It isn't like InXile hasn't done that before.

 

How many projects can a single man work before he gets burnt out? Doesn't the man already have Wasteland 2 and P:E on his plate?

 

Sure, but on the other hand, Wasteland 2 is out this Fall, and PE is another year. Torment: Tides of Numenera won't be out until Holiday season 2014, at the very earliest, my bet would be on Spring 2015. So I don't think him burning out will be too much of an issue. 

[JOG]

Wasteland 2 will be turn-based combat heavy? A game similar to Fallout without all the 1950's silliness? Wow, sounds almost like a sequel to Wasteland. Now I'm relieved.

 

What's the problem with "Torment" anyway, Obsidian already had a go at the storytelling premise that each partymember is tormented in some way and their paths to salvation overlap with the PC's. MotB did a great job, but was a bit short and based on a rather average base campaign (also by Obsidian)

 

And as the panda said, who says that Avellone won't join, just like PE had "George Zeits for proper lore design" as stretch goal.

Edited February 26, 2013 by JOG

[Nordicus]

He can't cast a mass buff on all of their creative writing skills... so far as I'm aware.

I'm afraid Avellone chose Conjuration specialization, so he can't cast Mass Owl's Wisdom or any other transmutation spells

[C2B]

 

 

Also, if I were a crazy betting panda, I would put money on Avellone being a stretch goal. It isn't like InXile hasn't done that before.

 

How many projects can a single man work before he gets burnt out? Doesn't the man already have Wasteland 2 and P:E on his plate?

 

Sure, but on the other hand, Wasteland 2 is out this Fall, and PE is another year. Torment: Tides of Numenera won't be out until Holiday season 2014, at the very earliest, my bet would be on Spring 2015. So I don't think him burning out will be too much of an issue. 

 

Yeah, but they will have the design/writing stuff wrapped up earlier. What's preventing Avellone is full concentration on Eternity. His involvement in Torment would probably be smaller than what he did for W2.

[DakkonZerth]

InXile just announced they will soon start a KS campaign for a soul-sequel for Planescape: Torment, named, Torment: Tides of Numenera.

 

No, I'm nowhere nearly joyed by this news. Personally I don't trust InXile, namely Fargo 10% as much as Obsidian and I'm hating to think they grabbed the idea and the hype.

 

For info, Brian Fargo (ex boss of interplay) re-bought the rights for Torment franchise 3 months ago. But as a person that was never in the original design team, I tend to think he doesn't deserve the right to go and pick a new team to do it, leaving out Avellone and the rest.

 

As much as I obsessively love Torment, I believe I will protest backing this particular project.

 

What do you guys say?

The main designer, co-designed the original Torment, I am not worried at all.  Plus, Fargo is clearly trustworthy.  Also, Fargo stated that he asked "Avellone for his blessing" in an interview.  My question is: will they leverage the Eternity engine for their game?! It would only make sense.

[DakkonZerth]

I love Torment, it is my favorite game ever, and this was amazing news. The first concept art, is also promising.  The Bloom seems to be replacing the hive, and the figure in the cloak walking towards it seems even more mysterious than the nameless one (if in fact it is early concept of the protagonist).  I am extremely excited, inXile is really showing some good stuff with the latest Wasteland 2 video, and I'm extremely confident in their handling of Torment. They are already starting the fan service too: look at the logo font, and the symbol which is supposed to replace the blade of the immortal.  This game is going to be awesome. Nuff said.

[Infinitron]

Sorry guys, but they've pretty much definitively ruled out Chris' involvement in the game's development. He did make an endorsement video, though, which we'll probably see when the Kickstarter begins.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Infinitron

[Pandamaniac]

“Right now he’s incredibly involved with Project: Eternity, and I do not want to distract him from a project that is incredibly important to his company. With that said, I would be happy – no, wait, overjoyed – to have him on board in any capacity whatsoever.”

 

That is from the blessing article at http://www.vg247.com/2012/12/03/planescape-torment-sequel-gets-avellones-blessing/. So the door was left open.

[Shadenuat]

I am drooling and huggin MCA pillow every night just like all you guys, but he is not the ONLY writer who can come up with good stuff. Let's give other writers a chance too, shall we?

...you do have MCA pillows right? right? ... eh.... I... I never should said that part did I.

[Ieo]

Earlier thread in more general, non-PE forum: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63124-torment-sequel-qa-with-brian-fargo/

 

My response is in that thread. I'm definitely not keen on the idea, certainly not by that January article. 

[MattH]

It's a project I'm very much looking forward to, that's all.

[smithereen]

I'll wait to see the pitch. And if MCA is a stretch goal... well let's just say I might need another mortgage.

Edited February 26, 2013 by smithereen

[Dream]

Based on how they've been trying to sell this even if MCA was involved I'd still be leery; it just feels too much like a cash grab.

 

After all, as Warren Spector has shown us, making one or two amazing games does not guarantee much.

[Amentep]

Based on how they've been trying to sell this even if MCA was involved I'd still be leery; it just feels too much like a cash grab.

 

After all, as Warren Spector has shown us, making one or two amazing games does not guarantee much.

 

Isn't any game not distributed as freeware potentially a "cash grab"?

 

Does it matter if a games origin is as a "cash grab" if the game turns out to be good?

 

If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around, does it make a sound?

[Tsuga C]

If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around, does it make a sound?

Yes.

 

And was I the only guy who thought of the Numa Numa Guy when first reading of Numenera? Torment: Tubby Numa Numa!

[Amentep]

 

If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around, does it make a sound?

Yes.

 

And was I the only guy who thought of the Numa Numa Guy when first reading of Numenera? Torment: Tubby Numa Numa!

 

I thought of it too...

[alanschu]

Does it matter if a games origin is as a "cash grab" if the game turns out to be good?

 

The biggest problem I have for it is is that, for all of Fargo's bluster about how it's great to be free of publishers, he's just doing the same thing that publishers do (leverage a sequel to get additional money).  It's one thing to do Wasteland 2 since it's a game he's wanted to make since Fallout was released (it's also a true sequel), but this one just rubs me the wrong way.  His actions come across more as former CEO of a big Publisher rather than former game developer.  Just my opinion on the matter.

 

As for if the game turns out to be good, IMO there's already a level of expectation that would be otherwise more difficult to achieve then had it not been titled Torment.  In other words, I think it will be more challenging for the game to be considered "good" simply because of its title.  Unfortunately, whether or not games are considered good is not done in a purely objective sense.

Edited February 26, 2013 by alanschu

[Amentep]

 

Does it matter if a games origin is as a "cash grab" if the game turns out to be good?

 

The biggest problem I have for it is is that, for all of Fargo's bluster about how it's great to be free of publishers, he's just doing the same thing that publishers do (leverage a sequel to get additional money).  It's one thing to do Wasteland 2 since it's a game he's wanted to make since Fallout was released (it's also a true sequel), but this one just rubs me the wrong way.  His actions come across more as former CEO of a big Publisher rather than former game developer.  Just my opinion on the matter.

 

Yeah, but it doesn't actually bother me; to my mind there's no real difference between this and WL2 (or the Bard's Tale remake).

[alanschu]

The unfortunate thing for me is that Fargo's description of what he feels is a "Torment" game is precisely what I want to see in pretty much all of my RPGs.  I find it disheartening that for a game to effectively contain that level of writing depth, then that's what makes it a "Torment" game.  The connection, to me, is much weaker than Wasteland 2 (no real opinion on the Bard's Tale remake).  Based on history, I genuinely expect a more "Torment" like game out of Project Eternity.

 

 

That said, I've gone on enough about this project already in other threads, so I'll not be a negative nancy and continue to try to derail the thread about the reservations I have for it.

[Dream]

Does it matter if a games origin is as a "cash grab" if the game turns out to be good?

Not at all. I want more than anything for this to succeed and be as good as Torment, but the way Fargo is hyping this just feels wrong. He talks about wanting to make a game like this for a while, but was somehow unable to until he got the rights to the Torment name (despite the game having absolutely zero tangible links to PS:T).

 

I hope I'm wrong but I guess we'll see.

[Zoraptor]

The whole Torment thing still rubs me up the wrong way. With WL2 there was direct continuity, with this thematic sequel you don't have direct continuity. And given those involved it'd still be better as Planescape: Subtitle rather than reversed Supertitle: Torment

 

Still, my slight discomfiture/ mild annoyance is a gentle zephyr wafting off the warm waters of the Meditteranean compared to the potential for a howling Sirocco of rage there'll be if the people who got the rights to System Shock try kickstarting an SS3.

[Amentep]

I think him wanting to make the game is why he got the "Torment" rights (whatever that was) and why he's selling it that way.

 

But previous little of the kickstarter games I've seen aren't trading on some earlier game directly or indirectly so I still have no reservations about supporting the game - if the pitch looks good - because Fargo decided to use the word Torment.

[Malekith]

The unfortunate thing for me is that Fargo's description of what he feels is a "Torment" game is precisely what I want to see in pretty much all of my RPGs.  I find it disheartening that for a game to effectively contain that level of writing depth, then that's what makes it a "Torment" game.  The connection, to me, is much weaker than Wasteland 2 (no real opinion on the Bard's Tale remake).  Based on history, I genuinely expect a more "Torment" like game out of Project Eternity.

 

 

That said, I've gone on enough about this project already in other threads, so I'll not be a negative nancy and continue to try to derail the thread about the reservations I have for it.

Yet no other RPG had them.(except perhaps MotB) Even the other IE games (BG and IWD), Fallouts, Arcanum etc fall way short because they had other priorities. Even P:E will be more of a BG3 than P:T2. That doesn't mean that can't have Torment level writing or story, but that they will not be the main focus of the game. There will be too much combat for that.

[Brother None]

 

Does it matter if a games origin is as a "cash grab" if the game turns out to be good?

 

The biggest problem I have for it is is that, for all of Fargo's bluster about how it's great to be free of publishers, he's just doing the same thing that publishers do (leverage a sequel to get additional money).  It's one thing to do Wasteland 2 since it's a game he's wanted to make since Fallout was released (it's also a true sequel), but this one just rubs me the wrong way.  His actions come across more as former CEO of a big Publisher rather than former game developer.  Just my opinion on the matter.

 

I can see that, but I wouldn't call it so much publisher as producer. He does still run a company, and he has to be aware of risks, costs and production cycles. The truth is that a production cycle where WL2 is out, polished up and modkitted up and only *then* can you move on to pre-production of Torment or WL3 or Bard's Tale 4 or whatever is next, well, it creates a very negative workflow: it means you have to fire the writers and artists now, and it means you're going to have a problem giving your programmers and modelers much to do in the pre-production period of the next game, since a lot of the basic work was already done on this engine.

 

I get why this isn't very interesting from a consumer side, but publisher or producer of a small development house, you have to be aware of it. Fargo's reasons for coming back to Kickstarter are no different than Feargus' reasons for still pitching projects to publishers, smart producers like those guys knows you have to create a good project cycle and think several months ahead at all times. Again, I know this doesn't necessarily mean much from the consumer end of things, if it feels wrong to you it feels wrong, period, but I hope you can see it's not driven by greed or publisher-like thinking, but simply by the reality of game production cycles.