Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

What things do you NOT want in Project Eternity?

kinect multiplayer co-op social casual bugs

  • Please log in to reply
92 replies to this topic

#1
nocoolnamejim

nocoolnamejim

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 14 posts
  • PSN Portable ID:Soulshade
  • Xbox Gamertag:Armandos
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
Hi everyone,

Contributor to Project Eternity looking forward to my shiny, sexy badge at whatever the $250 level is making my first post.

I'm just starting to poke my head around here and get a feel for the Obsidian community, so my apologies if i talk about anything that's been already discussed to death. The theme of this post, as the title indicates, are which things you want to make sure that Project Eternity does NOT have in it.

My list, off the top of my head, is as follows:

1. Multiplayer
2. Co-op
3. Motion Control support
4. Social gaming of any kind
5. Any sort of casual tie-in like a facebook or phone apps
6. An overabundance of bugs

My reasons for this are as follows.

With regards to Multiplayer and Co-op, I agree with that theoretically it is possible to have these things and not detract from the Single Player experience, but in general I view that as being similar to how Unicorns and Elves could potentially exist in the depths of rain forests that have not been fully explored. In other words, I acknowledge that it has not been entirely DISPROVEN to be possible, but that the odds tend to be low.

With motion control support, I simialrly acknowledge that there might be some games significantly made better by having it. I'd be hard pressed to name these games at this time, but I do admit to the possibility. In particular, I think there's a good chance that, say, a Golf game or a Zelda game could be made better. With a traditional RPG, I'd prefer, at this time, to stick with what has been known to work.

My reason for not wanting social gaming is pretty straightforward. I hope that Project Eternity has an immersive, compelling story with fascinating characters that I grow to love a great deal. Just like how trying to read a book socially or watch a movie with someone constantly talking would be detrimental to such things in my opinion, I see social gaming as something that HINDERS narrative, plot and character development rather than helps it.

Casual tie-ins like facebook and phone apps strike me as money grabbing and general bloodsucking. See: Mass Effect 3. Don't do this pretty please Obsidian?

On the subject of bugs...this is one that I have to be a bit delicate on I think. I like Obsdiian's games for the most part. I enjoy the writing. I think they do good characters. If I didn't like this company, I wouldn't have donated at the level that I did. But I DO view that donation as being inherently risky because of Obsidian's track record in this area. I have often seen publishers blamed for incomplete, unfinished and unpolished offerings from Obsidian and I am sure there is some truth to that.

But...Obsidian seems to not be able to release a polished and finished product REGARDLESS of who the publisher is. Hopefully the Kickstarter model will fix this, but I would be remiss in not mentioning this issue with past titles.

Anyway, what about others? Is my list comprehensive? Do you have your own suggested additions or subtractions off of it?
  • HangedMan, Vaesark and Shane-o like this

#2
Alexjh

Alexjh

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 294 posts
  • Location:Northants, UK
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
I'm guessing you never played any of the Infinity Engine games in co-op then? Didn't detract from single player in the slightest as it was literally exactly the same as the single player except control of the party was split between 2 or more people. Nothing purpose built, just the entirely optional ability to play the same exact story with friends.

But you are in luck, as multiplayer has been confirmed in its absense.
  • maggotheart, SophosTheWise and locomotron like this

#3
jivex5k

jivex5k

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 462 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
Microtransactions
Real Money Auction House
Required Internet Connection
Randomized Loot
Instant Heal Potions

Basically: Anything Diablo 3 has in it. (Aside from obvious things like combat, magic, monsters...don't be a troll now!)

Edited by jivex5k, 11 January 2013 - 01:11 PM.

  • HangedMan, Scottfree6000, some guy and 1 other like this

#4
nocoolnamejim

nocoolnamejim

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 14 posts
  • PSN Portable ID:Soulshade
  • Xbox Gamertag:Armandos
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

I'm guessing you never played any of the Infinity Engine games in co-op then? Didn't detract from single player in the slightest as it was literally exactly the same as the single player except control of the party was split between 2 or more people. Nothing purpose built, just the entirely optional ability to play the same exact story with friends.

But you are in luck, as multiplayer has been confirmed in its absense.


New account and therefore only have four more confirmed posts for the day so I can only continue the discussion for so long but...

I would disagree that the single player experience is exactly the same with friends as without. There ARE games that I enjoy playing with other people. There are activities that I enjoy playing with other people. It's kind of hard to play poker by yourself for example, or basketball. Both among my favorite things to do with others.

But would you say watching a movie or reading a book with other people is the same thing as doing those things solo? Or are you less immersed in the story, distracted from the narrative, etc.? There's a reason why talking is frowned upon in movie theaters.

My HOPE is that Project Eternity has the same feel as a game like Planescape: Torment, which I would have enjoyed far less if people were talking to me while I was trying to play it.

MP can make surprise appearances at times, and as this is the place to show opinions to developers, I wanted to get my objections to it on the record.

@jivex5k
I'd agree with all of those things except MAYBE randomized loot. I'd prefer to have a mix of random and unrandom loot. Some things being in fixed locations and chests regardless, but other things being a bit more random.
  • HangedMan and Shane-o like this

#5
Amentep

Amentep

    Forum Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 5201 posts
  • Location:Fawcett City
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
Tacos.
  • jivex5k, JFSOCC and Jobby like this

#6
Gfted1

Gfted1

    Forum Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 5892 posts
  • Location:Chicago, IL
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

New account and therefore only have four more confirmed posts for the day so I can only continue the discussion for so long but...


What that means is your first 5 posts have to be approved by a moderator to ensure you are not a bot. After those five approvals you may post freely and there is no limit to the amount of daily posts.

#7
nocoolnamejim

nocoolnamejim

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 14 posts
  • PSN Portable ID:Soulshade
  • Xbox Gamertag:Armandos
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

New account and therefore only have four more confirmed posts for the day so I can only continue the discussion for so long but...


What that means is your first 5 posts have to be approved by a moderator to ensure you are not a bot. After those five approvals you may post freely and there is no limit to the amount of daily posts.


Thank you. I realized that after I finished that last approved post but I appreciate the clarification nevertheless.

#8
Alexjh

Alexjh

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 294 posts
  • Location:Northants, UK
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

I'm guessing you never played any of the Infinity Engine games in co-op then? Didn't detract from single player in the slightest as it was literally exactly the same as the single player except control of the party was split between 2 or more people. Nothing purpose built, just the entirely optional ability to play the same exact story with friends.

But you are in luck, as multiplayer has been confirmed in its absense.


New account and therefore only have four more confirmed posts for the day so I can only continue the discussion for so long but...

I would disagree that the single player experience is exactly the same with friends as without. There ARE games that I enjoy playing with other people. There are activities that I enjoy playing with other people. It's kind of hard to play poker by yourself for example, or basketball. Both among my favorite things to do with others.

But would you say watching a movie or reading a book with other people is the same thing as doing those things solo? Or are you less immersed in the story, distracted from the narrative, etc.? There's a reason why talking is frowned upon in movie theaters.


To clarrify myself here, I love playing IE games both solo AND co-op. I've completed both Icewind Dales and Baldur's Gate 2 solo and then gone back later to play them through with various friends, and then back again to solo and so on. As these, and by extension, Project: Eternity are squad based tactical combat games they lend themselves quite naturally to co-operative multiplayer. There is no extra game content for multiplayer, it is exactly the same story and mechanics and areas as the single player, but it adds a whole different dimension when you have to call out to your friend over chat to get them to deal with that wizard whose summoning at you or when you manage to sneak attack that big warrior who is about to kill your friends character. Sure, it does generally adversely effect how you intake the story, but, the tradeoff is a whole new way of playing the same game where you have to rely on someone else to have your back. Exact same content, but very different experience.

#9
nocoolnamejim

nocoolnamejim

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 14 posts
  • PSN Portable ID:Soulshade
  • Xbox Gamertag:Armandos
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

I'm guessing you never played any of the Infinity Engine games in co-op then? Didn't detract from single player in the slightest as it was literally exactly the same as the single player except control of the party was split between 2 or more people. Nothing purpose built, just the entirely optional ability to play the same exact story with friends.

But you are in luck, as multiplayer has been confirmed in its absense.


New account and therefore only have four more confirmed posts for the day so I can only continue the discussion for so long but...

I would disagree that the single player experience is exactly the same with friends as without. There ARE games that I enjoy playing with other people. There are activities that I enjoy playing with other people. It's kind of hard to play poker by yourself for example, or basketball. Both among my favorite things to do with others.

But would you say watching a movie or reading a book with other people is the same thing as doing those things solo? Or are you less immersed in the story, distracted from the narrative, etc.? There's a reason why talking is frowned upon in movie theaters.


To clarrify myself here, I love playing IE games both solo AND co-op. I've completed both Icewind Dales and Baldur's Gate 2 solo and then gone back later to play them through with various friends, and then back again to solo and so on. As these, and by extension, Project: Eternity are squad based tactical combat games they lend themselves quite naturally to co-operative multiplayer. There is no extra game content for multiplayer, it is exactly the same story and mechanics and areas as the single player, but it adds a whole different dimension when you have to call out to your friend over chat to get them to deal with that wizard whose summoning at you or when you manage to sneak attack that big warrior who is about to kill your friends character. Sure, it does generally adversely effect how you intake the story, but, the tradeoff is a whole new way of playing the same game where you have to rely on someone else to have your back. Exact same content, but very different experience.


I can definitely see how this sort of gameplay would lend itself to playing with friends. (Heck, I remember way back in the day playing Secret of Mana coop)

But in all honesty, my perceptions on this are heavily colored by the fact that building in the coop/mp component to begin with generally leads to shorter, less polished SP. Sure, you can play that same content alone or with friends or both ways, but resources are finite and most of the time I've seen these mods pushed into games that don't necessarily need them, it sure seems like those games have suffered relative to predecessors.

With Obsidian having something of a history of...not fully polished (sorry Obsidian team, still love you guys)...offerings, it's just something that I don't want them to try and bite off. I'd prefer that ALL available resources be devoted towards maximizing the SP.
  • HangedMan, Hormalakh, Nebucatnetzer and 2 others like this

#10
rjshae

rjshae

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 5057 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
Mullet haircuts.

#11
moridin84

moridin84

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 266 posts
  • Location:Ireland
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

To clarrify myself here, I love playing IE games both solo AND co-op. I've completed both Icewind Dales and Baldur's Gate 2 solo and then gone back later to play them through with various friends, and then back again to solo and so on. As these, and by extension, Project: Eternity are squad based tactical combat games they lend themselves quite naturally to co-operative multiplayer. There is no extra game content for multiplayer, it is exactly the same story and mechanics and areas as the single player, but it adds a whole different dimension when you have to call out to your friend over chat to get them to deal with that wizard whose summoning at you or when you manage to sneak attack that big warrior who is about to kill your friends character. Sure, it does generally adversely effect how you intake the story, but, the tradeoff is a whole new way of playing the same game where you have to rely on someone else to have your back. Exact same content, but very different experience.

Regardless, no multiplayer is absolute decision made by the developers of the game, arguing about it is pointless.

This should be sticked somewhere.

Edited by moridin84, 11 January 2013 - 02:10 PM.


#12
Lephys

Lephys

    Punsmith of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 7245 posts
  • Location:The Punforge
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

Regardless, no multiplayer is absolute decision made by the developers of the game, arguing about it is pointless.

This should be sticked somewhere.


It actually isn't. Arguing about whether or not the developers have already decided on the matter would be pointless. Arguing (or, in this case, discussing) multiplayer and its effects when implemented in cRPGs (such as P:E) is actually quite non-pointless.

Also, developers possess the incredible ability to change their minds due to various factors, so the possibility of multiplayer still making its way into P:E in some form isn't entirely gone, especially if it's a decision due to resource limitations and time constraints. For what it's worth...
  • Alexjh and nocoolnamejim like this

#13
Jasede

Jasede

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 323 posts
  • Location:Glorious Codexistan
I don't want "What do you not want in PE?" threads in PE.
  • Alexjh likes this

#14
NKKKK

NKKKK

    (8) Warlock

  • Members
  • 1012 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
Good, cause I thought Project Eternity was confirmed a game and not a forum. Otherwise, we're in trouble.
  • HangedMan likes this

#15
nocoolnamejim

nocoolnamejim

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 14 posts
  • PSN Portable ID:Soulshade
  • Xbox Gamertag:Armandos
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

Regardless, no multiplayer is absolute decision made by the developers of the game, arguing about it is pointless.

This should be sticked somewhere.


It actually isn't. Arguing about whether or not the developers have already decided on the matter would be pointless. Arguing (or, in this case, discussing) multiplayer and its effects when implemented in cRPGs (such as P:E) is actually quite non-pointless.

Also, developers possess the incredible ability to change their minds due to various factors, so the possibility of multiplayer still making its way into P:E in some form isn't entirely gone, especially if it's a decision due to resource limitations and time constraints. For what it's worth...


I agree with this, which is one of the biggest reasons that I mentioned the feature to begin with. I'll be very upset if it gets added in. I don't buy the whole "MP is optional" argument. Like a lot of primarily single player gamers, adding this will make me MUCH less excited about this game. My experience is that MP is tacked on or shoved into games that don't need it and don't benefit from it often these days at the behest of publishers who don't understand the schisms between SP and MP gamer archetypes.
  • Shane-o likes this

#16
Alexjh

Alexjh

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 294 posts
  • Location:Northants, UK
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Regardless, no multiplayer is absolute decision made by the developers of the game, arguing about it is pointless.

This should be sticked somewhere.


It actually isn't. Arguing about whether or not the developers have already decided on the matter would be pointless. Arguing (or, in this case, discussing) multiplayer and its effects when implemented in cRPGs (such as P:E) is actually quite non-pointless.

Also, developers possess the incredible ability to change their minds due to various factors, so the possibility of multiplayer still making its way into P:E in some form isn't entirely gone, especially if it's a decision due to resource limitations and time constraints. For what it's worth...


I agree with this, which is one of the biggest reasons that I mentioned the feature to begin with. I'll be very upset if it gets added in. I don't buy the whole "MP is optional" argument. Like a lot of primarily single player gamers, adding this will make me MUCH less excited about this game. My experience is that MP is tacked on or shoved into games that don't need it and don't benefit from it often these days at the behest of publishers who don't understand the schisms between SP and MP gamer archetypes.


Really? You do know that every Infinity Engine game except Planescape had co-op right? I can understand you being indifferent to it, but actively notably measurably less excited?

#17
nocoolnamejim

nocoolnamejim

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 14 posts
  • PSN Portable ID:Soulshade
  • Xbox Gamertag:Armandos
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
Beyond a shadow of a doubt I'd be less excited. I'd regret my donation level were it to occur.

#18
Alexjh

Alexjh

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 294 posts
  • Location:Northants, UK
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Beyond a shadow of a doubt I'd be less excited. I'd regret my donation level were it to occur.


To each their own I guess.... Though I really do recommend you at least try out some IE co-op at least once, makes for a whole new experience of playing the same great games. The Icewind Dales are probably the best choice as you dont have to worry about player choices.

#19
nocoolnamejim

nocoolnamejim

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 14 posts
  • PSN Portable ID:Soulshade
  • Xbox Gamertag:Armandos
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

Beyond a shadow of a doubt I'd be less excited. I'd regret my donation level were it to occur.


To each their own I guess.... Though I really do recommend you at least try out some IE co-op at least once, makes for a whole new experience of playing the same great games. The Icewind Dales are probably the best choice as you dont have to worry about player choices.


Unlikely to do so as it just doesn't interest me in general. I view excessive requirements to have other players to game with as an encroaching plague on the industry. I absolutely abhore the influence of how extensive and omnipresent multiplayer has become.

Do you think EA might have managed to actually finish the Mass Effect 3 endings, have an actually functioning journal system, any interesting side quests, and not butchered the Tali face reveal if they had spent the resources used to add Kinect/MP support to Mass Effect 3 on those other things instead?

From my perspective, MP in games is simply my being forced to pay for a mode that I'll never use and is likely to make the mode I WILL use shorter and worse.
  • HangedMan, LadyMuck and Shane-o like this

#20
Alexjh

Alexjh

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 294 posts
  • Location:Northants, UK
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Do you think EA might have managed to actually finish the Mass Effect 3 endings, have an actually functioning journal system, any interesting side quests, and not butchered the Tali face reveal if they had spent the resources used to add Kinect/MP support to Mass Effect 3 on those other things instead?


Errr.... given that the first is a bad writing problem, the second I hadn't even noticed as an issue, the third a structural choice rather than ommission and the fourth some weird art direction splurge, I fail to see how otherwise engaged level designers and programmers could have caused them?
  • moridin84 likes this





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: kinect, multiplayer, co-op, social, casual, bugs

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users