Family Issues

[Syraxis]

I'm going to have to echo everyone else in this thread and say it sounds like your dad is overreacting/exaggerating. Personally I think he needs to take a good long look in the mirror and have a "OMG I just realized I'm Tyler Durden" moment.

 

Not that I'm qualified on giving advice in the matter of marital relationships, but honestly... it should be you and your family that you should be concerned with (that being, your wife and kids). If you're happy with the wife and kids, I think you shouldn't be all that concerned with what your dad thinks. Especially from what I've skimmed through it sounds like the problems lies with him.

 

Strangely enough, he sounds a lot like my sister. Though I don't see us keeping in contact with one-another much in the future years (not that I'd complain mind you).

Edited January 1, 2013 by Syraxis

[Malcador]

What we need to do is get his had on here to give the other side.

[Roxane]

Hey Hurlshot! I've read the whole topic and it seems that your wife doesn't seems to fit your extended family "mold" and that they are unwilling to compromise or accept her as the way she is.

 

The later anecdoct about the dinner where your dad and wife went over the winery clearly shows that. No matter how hard she'll try, your wife will never be up to par with your extended family "standards".

 

So stick by your wife and the family that you've built with her.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

The short answer is yes, he is clearly exaggerating. I have a good example that I have tried to use with him, and I will share it with you guys.

 

About a year ago, we had my parents over for dinner. When they arrived, my wife noticed that we had very little wine in the house, and my dad is a big wine guy. We have a winery just down the street from our house, and so she asked my father if he would like to go with her and pick something out there. I thought this was a great idea, it gave my father a chance to do something he enjoys and I thought it might be a nice moment for him and my wife to share together. Of course she paid for the bottle, so that should not have offended him.

 

I brought this up when he was listing all the character flaws of my wife, and his take on the story was very different. First, he says as a host we should have already had the wine. Then he said it was inconsiderate that he had to leave the gathering and go with my wife. Lastly, he said the winery was not really that good (which is a bit crazy, this is a winery that has existed since 1925 and is quite famous.)

 

I was flabbergasted by this response. It just showed me how different our perspectives are. I really have no idea how to guide someone into seeing the good in somebody, so I'm really at a loss.

 

I'd have to agree with your father on the first two of his points. We've been to a lot of parties and also held a lot of parties and never been in a situation where we had to get wine after guests have arrived. It shows that you're not well organised and running things by the seat of your pants. If we arrived at a party and the host had to go out and get wine after guests arrived, We'd be thinking 'what have they been doing all day to be getting wine now?'

 

Your father probably felt uncomfortable having to leave the gathering to get wine with your wife which probably annoyed him and felt obligated to say yes, especially since he doesn't get along with your wife. He can't say No because he's family, hence obligated to say yes. If I had to leave a gathering and get alcohol with a host because they didn't pick it up earlier in the day, I'd probably be thinking, 'what else have they forgotten for dinner?'.

 

The third point about the winery being nothing special? Don't know the winery so can't comment. Although having been to a few wineries, they don't really mean much to me. So while it may be of no consequence to you about the wine, for others it can be a bad start to the night.

['GM']

The short answer is yes, he is clearly exaggerating. I have a good example that I have tried to use with him, and I will share it with you guys.

 

About a year ago, we had my parents over for dinner. When they arrived, my wife noticed that we had very little wine in the house, and my dad is a big wine guy. We have a winery just down the street from our house, and so she asked my father if he would like to go with her and pick something out there. I thought this was a great idea, it gave my father a chance to do something he enjoys and I thought it might be a nice moment for him and my wife to share together. Of course she paid for the bottle, so that should not have offended him.

 

I brought this up when he was listing all the character flaws of my wife, and his take on the story was very different. First, he says as a host we should have already had the wine. Then he said it was inconsiderate that he had to leave the gathering and go with my wife. Lastly, he said the winery was not really that good (which is a bit crazy, this is a winery that has existed since 1925 and is quite famous.)

 

I was flabbergasted by this response. It just showed me how different our perspectives are. I really have no idea how to guide someone into seeing the good in somebody, so I'm really at a loss.

 

I'd have to agree with your father on the first two of his points. We've been to a lot of parties and also held a lot of parties and never been in a situation where we had to get wine after guests have arrived. It shows that you're not well organised and running things by the seat of your pants. If we arrived at a party and the host had to go out and get wine after guests arrived, We'd be thinking 'what have they been doing all day to be getting wine now?'

 

Your father probably felt uncomfortable having to leave the gathering to get wine with your wife which probably annoyed him and felt obligated to say yes, especially since he doesn't get along with your wife. He can't say No because he's family, hence obligated to say yes. If I had to leave a gathering and get alcohol with a host because they didn't pick it up earlier in the day, I'd probably be thinking, 'what else have they forgotten for dinner?'.

 

The third point about the winery being nothing special? Don't know the winery so can't comment. Although having been to a few wineries, they don't really mean much to me. So while it may be of no consequence to you about the wine, for others it can be a bad start to the night.

 

But this is a family dinner. I can see your point if Hurlshot was entertaining royalty or something, but family, imo, should be relaxed and fun. I don't see a thing wrong with going out to get something after the company's arrived. But late than never I say!

[Calax]

Well, I'd say less royalty and more "A larger group". When it's just one or two extra people, you're usually not going to plan that much different than if it was just your normal dinner. When you get to 4-10 it's a different animal because what you cook is significantly larger.

['GM']

Well, I'd say less royalty and more "A larger group". When it's just one or two extra people, you're usually not going to plan that much different than if it was just your normal dinner. When you get to 4-10 it's a different animal because what you cook is significantly larger.

 

Well maybe you're right. I guess my perspective is just a bit more like Hurlshot's than his father's at this point. But since I really don't know any of the people involved I'm just basing my opinion on what information is available.

[Valsuelm]

The short answer is yes, he is clearly exaggerating. I have a good example that I have tried to use with him, and I will share it with you guys.

 

About a year ago, we had my parents over for dinner. When they arrived, my wife noticed that we had very little wine in the house, and my dad is a big wine guy. We have a winery just down the street from our house, and so she asked my father if he would like to go with her and pick something out there. I thought this was a great idea, it gave my father a chance to do something he enjoys and I thought it might be a nice moment for him and my wife to share together. Of course she paid for the bottle, so that should not have offended him.

 

I brought this up when he was listing all the character flaws of my wife, and his take on the story was very different. First, he says as a host we should have already had the wine. Then he said it was inconsiderate that he had to leave the gathering and go with my wife. Lastly, he said the winery was not really that good (which is a bit crazy, this is a winery that has existed since 1925 and is quite famous.)

 

I was flabbergasted by this response. It just showed me how different our perspectives are. I really have no idea how to guide someone into seeing the good in somebody, so I'm really at a loss.

 

I'd have to agree with your father on the first two of his points. We've been to a lot of parties and also held a lot of parties and never been in a situation where we had to get wine after guests have arrived. It shows that you're not well organised and running things by the seat of your pants. If we arrived at a party and the host had to go out and get wine after guests arrived, We'd be thinking 'what have they been doing all day to be getting wine now?'

 

Your father probably felt uncomfortable having to leave the gathering to get wine with your wife which probably annoyed him and felt obligated to say yes, especially since he doesn't get along with your wife. He can't say No because he's family, hence obligated to say yes. If I had to leave a gathering and get alcohol with a host because they didn't pick it up earlier in the day, I'd probably be thinking, 'what else have they forgotten for dinner?'.

 

The third point about the winery being nothing special? Don't know the winery so can't comment. Although having been to a few wineries, they don't really mean much to me. So while it may be of no consequence to you about the wine, for others it can be a bad start to the night.

 

But this is a family dinner. I can see your point if Hurlshot was entertaining royalty or something, but family, imo, should be relaxed and fun. I don't see a thing wrong with going out to get something after the company's arrived. But late than never I say!

 

Better late than never indeed but Hiro Protagonist II is right. His father has some legitimate complaints and that's just hearing Hurl's side. As Malcador says, his father's side as well from his mouth would be ideal for the purposes of resolving the questions in this thread.

 

Also, just because a winery has been around a long time doesn't mean it's any good. ie: Franzia and Carlo Rossi (as well as most of the rest of E & J Gallo's portfolio) are generally not on any wine connoisseur's map of good wineries but they've been around quite some time. So has McDonald's and most would agree they don't make even medium quality burgers let alone great ones. That said, when it comes to a lot of things, beauty/taste is in the eye/mouth of the beholder. One man's garbage is another man's treasure. And that said, there's a big difference between a steak'em and a fillet mignon, and there's just as big a difference in qualities among the various types of wines. Not all Chardonnay/Cab/Merlot/Pinot/etc. are created equal.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

But this is a family dinner. I can see your point if Hurlshot was entertaining royalty or something, but family, imo, should be relaxed and fun. I don't see a thing wrong with going out to get something after the company's arrived. But late than never I say!

 

Regardless if it's family or not. I would find it odd to send my wife out to go shopping with a family friend after family friends had arrived. I wouldn't do it and my wife wouldn't either. It's pretty easy to organise a dinner. All you need is food and drink. When you go out shopping, you buy the food and drink at the same time. You're not going to have food straight away and will have some drinks to start off. When my wife and I go shopping, we know we have to buy drinks. If it's beer, wine, coke, orange juice, etc, we would buy it the same time as buying the food. It's pretty simple. No need to waste time going out a second time.

 

And when it's getting close to people arriving, you should have things pretty much ready. Food and drink. If you've forgotten something that's required, that's the time to do a mad dash to the shops and get it before guests arrive. I've done this in the past where my wife has said, 'oh, I forgot to get this, quick go to the shops and buy it'.

 

As you've said, family should be relaxed when they get there. To be able to relax, sit back, have a drink and talk. Not for them to step in the door only to have them turn around and go back out to do shopping with a host because they've forgot to buy drinks.

 

I'd probably be a bit annoyed too if I stepped in the door only to turn around and go shopping because the hosts aren't organised. I want to relax, sit back, chill out, have a drink and talk to my family. Not spend the next half hour driving/shopping because my extended family couldn't organise to buy drinks when they had all day to do it. But then I usually arrive with at least a 6-pack of beer and Bottle of wine for the hosts (family or otherwise) in any event.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Gorth]

I'd probably be a bit annoyed too if I stepped in the door only to turn around and go shopping because the hosts aren't organised. I want to relax, sit back, chill out, have a drink and talk to my family. Not spend the next half hour driving/shopping because my extended family couldn't organise to buy drinks when they had all day to do it.

 

Depends on the family, doesn't it? Sounds like horrible stiff and inflexible attitudes if it's considered a 'chore' to do something together. Why even bother? Screw ups happens. If you can't take it with a smile and enjoy solving a small task as a joint exercise, then you are probably better off not to have such arrangements in the first place. If he really didn't feel like getting his butt off his seat, why not just say so (in a polite way)? Sounds like somebody is just accumulating grievances and aggravations the way some nutcases gather ammo for the apocalypse.

 

Families are different, I know and I rarely get to see mine (like once every second year on average), but when we do, we do just about everything together as the most natural thing in the world. Nobody expects to get special treatment or having a few blood-related servants jumping every time somebody raises an eyebrow.

 

It's the entire 19th century mentality that rubs me the wrong way I suppose.

[Calax]

Hiro How could hurl have won?

 

If he'd gotten an ok to bad wine, Dad would have taken issue with that. He and his wife ASKED the Dad because the guy liked wine, and thus would purchase a wine that he would enjoy.

 

And having mom and dad over is something completely different from having friends over. In theory, mom and dad are supposed to be better as house guests and easier to deal with.

['GM']

You do have some good points, but I think it depends on the people involved. If it's good close friends or family it is usually no big deal to go get something needed or overlooked.... (and I confess, that does happen in our group of friends quite often). But there are certain people we've had over for dinner that I'd never dream of asking or expecting to go get something. I think it just depends on who you are and who your company is. And I'm usually not relaxed around those other 'certain' people, lol.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Depends on the family, doesn't it? Sounds like horrible stiff and inflexible attitudes if it's considered a 'chore' to do something together. Why even bother? Screw ups happens. If you can't take it with a smile and enjoy solving a small task as a joint exercise, then you are probably better off not to have such arrangements in the first place. If he really didn't feel like getting his butt off his seat, why not just say so (in a polite way)? Sounds like somebody is just accumulating grievances and aggravations the way some nutcases gather ammo for the apocalypse.

 

Families are different, I know and I rarely get to see mine (like once every second year on average), but when we do, we do just about everything together as the most natural thing in the world. Nobody expects to get special treatment or having a few blood-related servants jumping every time somebody raises an eyebrow.

 

It's the entire 19th century mentality that rubs me the wrong way I suppose.

 

Also depends what type of day you've just had when you turn up for a family dinner. You might think, yep no problem, we'll go out and get some beer, wine, etc and it wouldn't bother them. On the other hand, if you've had an exhausting day being out and about and just want to relax, you may not feel like turning around and going out to do shopping. I've had days where I've been busy all day like mowing the lawn, hedge trimming, lawn edging, a bit sore and we've had to go out to someone's place that night for dinner. Been great to relax and sit back and setlle in. Wouldn't have liked it to get back up and go shopping for the next half hour or so because my brother and girlfriend forgot to buy wine. I'd dismiss it but it would be a little annoying.

 

When I invite family over for a dinner, I don't expect any of them to go out and do shopping even if there's a screw up. Is there a nice way to say no? It'd probably look weird for Hurlshot's wife to go out alone to buy wine while everybody was at Hurlshot's place talking and relaxing. I don't think it would be appropriate to politely say no. We wouldn't go out to the shops after the guests arrived anyway. Even if there's a screw up, we'd just move on and say 'yeah sorry. We'll make sure we have it next time'. We'd just make do with something else.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Hiro How could hurl have won?

 

If he'd gotten an ok to bad wine, Dad would have taken issue with that. He and his wife ASKED the Dad because the guy liked wine, and thus would purchase a wine that he would enjoy.

 

And having mom and dad over is something completely different from having friends over. In theory, mom and dad are supposed to be better as house guests and easier to deal with.

 

If it was me and I had very little wine in the house, I'd just use the wine I had and say something like, 'We've never tried this wine and thought we'd try it out'. Pour a few glasses, say cheers, Merry Chirstmas, etc and taste it. If it's average, I'd say. 'It's not too bad. Seems okay'. Make light of it and not take anything seriously. Probably say I'd go with something else next time but this isn't too bad. Something different to try.

 

Hurlshot's dad might not mind the wine. He may not like it, but I think he would see the funny side of it if Hurlshot and his wife didn't take it seriously. That's how I would do it.

[Hurlshort]

I can see Hiro's point, but I genuinely thought this would be a fun activity for my dad. We did have wine in the house by the way, just nothing special. My dad built a wine cellar in his house, collects bottles, and generally enjoys visiting vineyards. We had recently moved to this house and it was only a few blocks away from this winery. Also I'm no expert on wines, so giving my dad a chance to choose something nice for the dinner seemed like a good idea. My wife and I are definitely not the most formal hosts, but we do the best we can. We both teach full time and we've got two little kids to raise, so it's fairly amazing when we manage to get a dinner on the table. My wife's parents seem to recognize that, as well as all my good friends, so it is disappointing that my parents do not.

 

I don't know, it just doesn't seem like any of this is worth dividing the family over.

 

edit: The winery in question

Edited January 2, 2013 by Hurlshot

[Gorth]

When I invite family over for a dinner, I don't expect any of them to go out and do shopping even if there's a screw up. Is there a nice way to say no? It'd probably look weird for Hurlshot's wife to go out alone to buy wine while everybody was at Hurlshot's place talking and relaxing. I don't think it would be appropriate to politely say no. We wouldn't go out to the shops after the guests arrived anyway. Even if there's a screw up, we'd just move on and say 'yeah sorry. We'll make sure we have it next time'. We'd just make do with something else.

 

Mate, it's grocery shopping. It's not like the guest are supposed to tag along for the heavy lifting while the missus goes shopping for new shoes in the meantime, we are talking about picking a bottle of wine

[alanschu]

People are missing the point regarding the wine.

 

You can't blame the wine situation solely on the wife, yet I don't think there's much surprise in . Furthermore, if he found it inconsiderate to have to leave the gathering, he's falling to the same trap so many other people do. Not having the guts to say "No thank you" when asked. Unfortunately, it is easier to hold someone else accountable for one's inability to say no, and is just another reflection on how communication has broken down.

 

No matter how much you may think it's the hosts fault for not providing the wine (which is perfectly valid), the hosts is both Hurlshot and his wife. That a circumstance arose that reflects "adapting to the situation at hand" is indeed nitpicky. Sure, be pissy because there's no wine to begin with. The response, however, is what needs to be judged. Father's statement reflects an undermining of the reaction to the situation, by carrying over the blame from the cause leading to the situation.

 

 

Though I myself don't consider "dinner with the parents" to be a "party," I wouldn't at all be surprised if Dad is just looking for ammo. When someone's mind is made up, I doubt he can convince them otherwise.

 

 

Also depends what type of day you've just had when you turn up for a family dinner. You might think, yep no problem, we'll go out and get some beer, wine, etc and it wouldn't bother them. On the other hand, if you've had an exhausting day being out and about and just want to relax, you may not feel like turning around and going out to do shopping.

 

Then say "No thanks" when asked! You can even state "Man I've had a busy day and would just like to rest.." State the type of wine you'd like (preferably a brand, but even just a style), let her run off and get it, and relax with the son and grand kids.

 

 

Is there a nice way to say no?

 

Yes there is! Try "No thank you!" Especially in an off the cuff, unexpected situation like that. Dad could have done dozens of different things to both decline while ALSO making light of the situation so people aren't offended.

 

 

As a Canadian the joke is that we can't say "no" either so I know what it's like, but it's okay to say no to things. Sometimes people even respect you for it, and you'll almost undoubtedly respect yourself more for doing so.

 

My parents and I started our tradition of "just the three of us" Christmas by stating "no thank you" to a family get together one time. It was liberating! Family didn't seem to care.

Edited January 2, 2013 by alanschu

[Nepenthe]

Wish I could contribute in some meaningful way, Hurlie, but I'm backed into a fairly tight corner, and the things that I was looking forward as Good Stuff happening in 2013 seem to be disappearing at an alarming rate. Not trying belittle your problems or push mine here, just genuinely sorry I can't think of anything (else) right now.

[JFSOCC]

hour of love. Ask your dad to list a few things he thinks are nice about your wife, and vice versa. that might help set the mind at looking at the positive things.

It doesn't even matter how little it is. It's not the things that matter, but what it does is refocusses the mind to pay attention to different things. that might (over time) break the cycle of focussing on the negative and reinforcing the bias when that is observed.

[Oerwinde]

Your dad just seems like an incredibly snobbish and negative person. People leaving to acquire alcohol is an incredibly common thing at gatherings. Usually one of the hosts and a guest. Its generally called a Beer Run. Someone needs to call your dad on his generally being a lousy person. Maybe direct him here so he can see what he looks like to outside observers.

Edited January 8, 2013 by Oerwinde

[Malcador]

Bit much to call his dad a lousy person on this account, no ?

[mkreku]

No. He wants to disown his son because the son's love of his life is not what he prefers. And he keeps bringing up these really petty situations to back up his opinion, an opinion which many people already find offensive even without these examples. Sure, you may not love everyone in your extended family equally much, but geez.. learn to accept them. Hot-showgirl-wife is not going to change so he'd better get to changing his own attitude pronto, or he will split his own family for nothing but pride and narrowmindedness.

 

This is how I see it.

[Pidesco]

mkreku is right, of course.

[Malcador]

Hm, didn't see any mention of disowning in the initial letter, just seemed more of a note on how his wife is annoying. And if this has been on for 10 years, I'm sure there's more to it than what was in that letter or we've been told. *shrug*

[JFSOCC]

I don't think you should focus on the few things he mentioned, besides them being examples, it shows that this is just something that has slowly been building up for the past ten years.

When you don't really get along with someone, or have a bad first impression, it's easy to get a positive information bias where you focus on someone's faults, the longer that goes on, the more you'll see in a negative light until every situation you'll only see the negative and this will only confirm what you already believe.

Rather than call your dad a ****, get him to reality-test his thoughts. If you can get him to try and see things from a different perspective, you can work on breaking the cycle of positive reinforcement of negative ideas.

This is why dialogue is so important. If I am annoyed by someone taking me along to a store, something I now HAVE to do, because she (OF COURSE!) didn't have the wit to prepare for guests, and I don't voice this, then she never gets to explain how she thought it was a nice thing to do, an excursion to a good wine place, and you can come along so you can select the best wine yourself, so you can only be satisfied. The fact that there was no dialogue meant that both your father and your wife got stuck with a view that was incorrect. Your father believing that your wife didn't care to be moved to do a single thing herself for the family, and your wife believing she reached out to your father.

 

This is why, if you want things to be right with your family, you MUST have dialogue, or rather, your wife and family must.

Edited January 8, 2013 by JFSOCC