Relationship/Romance Thread IV

[Tigranes]

This is the single consolidated location for discussion about romance and relationship vis-a-vis Project Eternity. Remember that arguing about each other's arguments and opinions is OK, personal attacks or obnoxious disruption is not. Play nice in the sandbox.

 

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

 

For those new to the forum/topic, here's a few example points of discussion (but not limited to):

• What type of dynamic, complex character relationships are important to your gaming experience, if any?
  
• If you enjoy romances in games, what type of plots do you enjoy or dislike (tragic, happy ending, marriage/family)?
  
• What romance or relationship arcs from other games did you personally enjoy that can serve as examples?
  
• Do you have any particular, preferred game mechanics for romance/relationships that you'd like to see included (optional questlines, dialogue, cutscenes)?
  

 

 

Most recently, Osvir has suggested a poll on romance (see above).

I don't want all of my companions to be forced to have a romance, and I believe that some value and define Romance (in a game) as something that has nothing to do with love but could instead focus on Friendship. I personally look at it as the Relationship meter (mechanically). How good standing does my character have with this Companion? How good friends are they, or rivals?

 

A rival doesn't necessarily have to be someone you dislike, but someone you always try to outdo (Brother to Brother rivalry).

 

This is also an attempt from saving Romance from treading down a dangerous path of only Love (I saw something writing something about Romance always winning the polls, so let's dive into what Romace really is).

[BruceVC]

Interesting poll, I voted for Sex but I also think Romance( Option 1) needs to be part of the necessary courting process in the game. I hope the poll results don't become skewered because of this.

[Osvir]

I voted for Love and Friendship, I'm personally not interested in the sex part (unless the game does it in an elegant way).

 

A good way, in Baldur's Gate I romanced Dynaheir (Mod) and she was always by my side in this kind of cool way, not all too gullible but genuinely interesting banters. About the world, about the party, even deeper into Dynaheir's life, some about Minsc etc. etc.

 

I got lots of feedback of the world, and I love that type of thing. When we got to the sex part of the Banter it was just "fade to black" after some very minor, subtle, "taking off clothes" text. When the screen faded out of black there was a short banter with Dynaheir that still didn't touch the "fading" process and "moving on" (thinking about it, Dragon Age: Origins did that too, right after I believe). I'd say it was a sensual and non-intrusive approach (where the game doesn't narrate "Love" for me), where it leaves the entire act to the imagination whilst Dragon Age: Origins presents it more in a forced and silly way.

[Karkarov]

Another poll with poor choices. How about all of the above? Whats the point of including romance at all in the game if it means it can only be "one kind", and since when is being "good friends" with your party members considered romance? Unless you are talking about same sex stuff which frankly I would avoid because it will only bring the wrong kind of attention to the game.

[Osvir]

Another poll with poor choices. How about all of the above? Whats the point of including romance at all in the game if it means it can only be "one kind", and since when is being "good friends" with your party members considered romance? Unless you are talking about same sex stuff which frankly I would avoid because it will only bring the wrong kind of attention to the game.

 

It's a Multi-Choice poll

[Sacred_Path]

I'm torn here.

 

The only reasonable (appropriate, realistic) choice here is sex, since we're talking about a bunch of hardasses on the road. I can totally see my barbarian shagging the rogue in a closet, or my halfling jacking off the half-orc after dinner. But do I need to be notified of it happening? Hell no. That goes for other base bodily functions (pissing, farting) as well.

[Tigranes]

In other words, we just assume they're all shagging each other, since who knows when they'll all die and they don't have any other friends?

 

Sounds reasonable.

[BruceVC]

Another poll with poor choices. How about all of the above? Whats the point of including romance at all in the game if it means it can only be "one kind", and since when is being "good friends" with your party members considered romance? Unless you are talking about same sex stuff which frankly I would avoid because it will only bring the wrong kind of attention to the game.

 

It's a Multi-Choice poll

 

Whoops I also didn't realize either, I voted for Romance and Sex

[Sacred_Path]

In other words, we just assume they're all shagging each other, since who knows when they'll all die and they don't have any other friends?

 

Sounds reasonable.

 

You can LARP it of course. Or you can just ignore that layer of the game, which is what I do.

 

Why did these people join together in the first place? Either they liked each other, or they had some pressing concerns that forced them to accept companions. Either way, is it interesting to know about it in detail?

 

Let's look at the other options:

 

- become bestest friends: Sure, nothing establishes bonds like cracking orc skulls together. It's possible, but do you need dialogue (which would certainly be totally interesting) to get the idea? Would you also welcome dialogue options like, "you're a meanie and we're not friends anymore?"

 

- fall in lurve. Sure, wading through the innards of your enemies in the flickering torch light sparks romances in the dozens. Especially between people who were randomly thrown into a travelling group. Not saying that it couldn't happen, but every new member being a potential love interest is just silly. And I'm not even saying anything about the writing that has until now gone into such romances in CRPGs (spoiler: it's abysmal).

 

So yeah the most realistic scenario is that these people who have fallen on hard times and must fight for their lives every day just need to let off some steam. Maybe they're also cuddling beneath their blankets afterwards. It's just that gameplay wise, I gain nothing by being made aware of it.

[bonarbill]

I just picked all the choices.

[anubite]

Here are some great ideas

 

-A terrorist jesus character (you know, they heal the sick and the lame, but kill innocent people in the name of justice) that gets mad at you if you tell him you're not gay / don't love him too

-A cute huggable shy elf who's naive, she wants to do something too

-Oh I love this idea - how about, you kill this woman's husband. And she doesn't really hate you for it. But she kinda does. And she still kinda thinks about her husband, but you fall in love anyway!

-Oh, oh and what about this? A serious dark elf. He was a slave though. So he has some emotional/sexuality issues you need to go through together before you're happy. He hates magic too, but he'll love you even if you're a mage, if you accept him.

-She's really slutty and a whore - but she's cool. And like... kind of manly at times. But she's really sweet, if secretive. Umm, she doesn't really trust you either. But it's okay, she's sexy.

[Monte Carlo]

She's really slutty and a whore - but she's cool. And like... kind of manly at times. But she's really sweet, if secretive. Umm, she doesn't really trust you either. But it's okay, she's sexy.

 

You've met my wife, then.

[anubite]

If at least 50% of the characters you can get in your party aren't romanceable I will be sorely disappointed. I also expect all females to be wearing tight clothing. No exceptions. We're making art here, people! And there better be at least 2 bisexual men. Bisexuality is underpresented in games. As are hermaphrodites. I expect at least one of those.

Edited November 10, 2012 by anubite

[kabaliero]

1, 3

 

plus i'd add a bro\sis sort of relationship

always had Imoen and Sarevok in the party

[LadyCrimson]

The definition in most dictionaries (and most "social culture" reference) of romance is romantic love (love affair, keeping "romance" alive re: marriage/love relationships) - something more than pure sex/one night stands/convenient physical gratification - but not necessarily "true love" or "love that = marriage".... you can have a torrid, very sexual love affair that lasts for weeks/months, with emotional stuff coming into play, but where both partners are aware they wouldn't/won't make a good long-term, stable, relationship, even if they wish it was so.

 

Therefore, I see the word "romance" and I think "romantic love."

 

I think a better poll definition would have been "how do you define love?" - love as a single word having a much broader definition (family, friendship, pets, material things).

[Osvir]

Interesting question Crimson and a good take on it.

 

How do you define Love? Laughter, Attention, Attraction, Friendship, Family, Wisdom, Harmony, Experience, Smiles, saying "Hi" to a stranger, Hugs, Kindness, Happiness. So much yet so little and vice versa.

 

How do you define Passion?

[anubite]

Umm, Osvir, you're describing "well adapted Western romanticized and idealized love" - I think you can be in love/love someone without any of those things being involved.

Edited November 10, 2012 by anubite

[Shadenuat]

A good way, in Baldur's Gate I romanced Dynaheir (Mod) and she was always by my side in this kind of cool way, not all too gullible but genuinely interesting banters. About the world, about the party, even deeper into Dynaheir's life, some about Minsc etc. etc.

 

Because Domi is a writer and did study in Russia because romance does not take away too much from characters written by Domi. Take Kivan, for example; it's basically a camaraderie which can last from BG1 and to the ToB, there are situational banters, struggles, and trying to understand and help that emo elf to overcome his obsession with revenge. You don't lose anything if you do not play as a female elf, really. He's written as character first and foremost. Compare that to legion of "masturbatory fiction" which BG mods are usually, with 35 flirt options and 40 questions like "What's your favorite color?", "If you'd be an animal, what animal would you be?". There, character only serves a purpose for entertaining a specific crowd, he has no real dreams and hopes, and quickly comes down to being nothing but your plaything. You can easely see when exactly writers steam ran out - he finished writing romance, and then it's like "oh snap, now I need to write something for people who won't romance dude/gal, like friendship path". And it sucks, of course, because the character was there to have romance to begin with, not to be a being with some grand hope or with ideas to say.

Those who enjoy that kind of **** should have no vote on how characters should be written and their tribute should end in their names being used as NPCs in that Avellone's dungeon with crazy Cipher.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Shadenuat

[Osvir]

Umm, Osvir, you're describing "well adapted Western romanticized and idealized love" - I think you can be in love/love someone without any of those things being involved.

 

No, I'm describing what I think about when I think about love, what makes me feel more love. I think you can love someone without any ties to anything just as it can be tied to everything and everyone. I am not speaking about media implementions.

 

I can make the list so much longer, love is mysteriously unexplainable and very individual.. what makes you fall in love?

[Shevek]

All rehashes of this topic should have the Avellone quote.

[BasaltineBadger]

All rehashes of this topic should have the Avellone quote.

 

Also, I'd have dropped one romance, at least. I hate them normally, and having 4 in one game, all of which I had to write, was a pain in the ass.

 

I hate them normally

 

 

I hate them

 

 

I hate them

 

 

I hate them

 

[Osvir]

Hmm an interesting thought popped up... could a character be bound to some keys making it impossible to reach the "Romance/Love" dialogue section and could this be an option? Basically "Turn it Off".

 

Likewise, could there be a character/companion that just ruins any attempt at Romance? Lol...

 

"Project: Eternity features:

* ****block Companion" xD

http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/611

Edited November 11, 2012 by Osvir

[Sacred_Path]

Hmm an interesting thought popped up... could a character be bound to some keys making it impossible to reach the "Romance/Love" dialogue section and could this be an option? Basically "Turn it Off".

 

Likewise, could there be a character/companion that just ruins any attempt at Romance? Lol...

 

"Project: Eternity features:

* ****block Companion" xD

 

Your companions should definitely have their own romances/ steal yours. Then they could be all "lol u mad?"

[SophosTheWise]

I can see it now:

 

Project Eternity: The RomCom

 

"Oh, great hero, thou art most courteous"

 

"Ye're a fine wench! Thine bosom is firm! May thine ars be even more firm!"

 

"Hihihihihihi"

 

....

[rjshae]

Other-mance? All I know is, cow farmers do it in the dairy air...

 

 

 

 

Geddit?