Favorite non-combat skills

[UncleBourbon]

We're not sure what exactly non-combat skills are to be yet - we've got some confirmation on lockpicking, and some interesting talk about the new mechanics. Likewise, we have indication of non-combat skills being usable to avoid combat, and some information of non-combat and combat skills not relying on the same resource. I've always been a big fan of skill checks for unusual things, be it in dialog, mini-text adventures, or in obvious ways. Obsidian, from all of their games I've seen, has always been pretty innovative in this - whether it be the usefullness of appraise and survival in Storm of Zehir, or the various dialog checks in Fallout: New Vegas, not to mention some of the stuff in their infinity engine work.

 

That said, I figured it would be interesting to find out which non-combat or more-than-combat skills everyone prefers. Clearly, D&D's skill selection lends itself to this sort of listing, but Dragon Age:Origins even had lockpicking/pickpocket and such. Clearly, these are things we'd probably also like to see in Project Eternity, but I think we can all agree they should be the ultimate judge of what skills and what uses thereof to include - despite a fondness for basketweaving.

 

So generally: Intimidate - I like to talk people into things, and myself out of them sometimes, but prefer the "mind your own business or else, that's why" reasoning.

Aside from that, the general "thieving" skills, though I admit a bias to pickpocket, and I lament how many games implement it as a fairly useless skill. The last really decent use for pickpocket was skyrim, and before that was New Vegas. (I imagine the gamebryo engine is a bit more suited for pickpocket/stealth systems). Taking into consideration PnP games, I'd have to say Use Rope is pretty high up, as well as climbing.

[Pshaw]

I liked using sneak in order to keep weapons while enter casinos in Fallout New Vegas. That and planting explosives on people.

 

I'd like to see more perception type checks where in order to notice something important in speech or in a dungeon you need a high amount of perception whether it be a base stat or a skill.

 

Beyond that I've always liked more dialogue options from speech skills. I also usually took Survival in Fallout 2 to skip out on getting bogged down in too many random encounters while moving around the world map.

[SophosTheWise]

Everything conflict-based like bluff/impersonate/disguise self and stuff like that which gives you a myriad of ways to get to where you want.

[Sedrefilos]

Talk/speech skills. I mostly enjoy dialogues and doing things by talking rather than fighting or sneaking (prerequisite: the game must be well written!)

[Aldereth]

The most interesting in terms of play mechanics that was implemented in games before would likely be crafting gears.

 

Personally, I would like to see a game that properly implementation of Look in the vein of keen observation. Would it not be absolutely cool for characters with a non combat skill that allow you to see the world in an entirely different context. Imagine a cRPG where your character can do what Sherlock Holmes did in the BBC series Sherlock.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Aldereth

[Amyrantha]

Talk/speech skills. I mostly enjoy dialogues and doing things by talking rather than fighting or sneaking (prerequisite: the game must be well written!)

I also really like the dialogue skills, particularly diplomacy/bluff type ones. It can be so much fun in a well written game to use these kinds of skills.

[Nonek]

Carpentry, prestidigitation and streetwise.

[Jymm]

I understand lots of people like crafting skills, but I personally detest them. I groaned when I saw that as a stretch goal. I just mentioned in a different thread how some gamers use a feature to ruin their own experience. I ruin my experience with crafting. I can't resist picking up all the junk crafting materials and hauling them around and then I'm trying to make things out of them and figure out recipes and whatever. Its all so tedious and yet I... can't... stop. There are the materials of useful stuff just lying around, free for the taking. I could just pick up these flowers or this mushroom and then later I could make potions and sell them or tote them around for 100 hours of gameplay. And its FREE. I can't just leave it there. I know its irrational. So you don't do anything irrational? Ever?!

 

So if you are going to put in crafting, let me invest zero skill points in it and then don't even SHOW ME any of the materials. I can't identify any of them because I have zero crafting skill. Ahhhh. So much better.

 

Now that I'm through with that sidebar, I have a much stronger affinity for the talking skills. And while someone will probably cry horror over this, I think its important that it be a trade-off. Only some characters will want to take these skills because investing in them means not investing in some other skills. Then I have the feeling that I'm really getting a reward for my investment when I can talk a clever way past a scenario or open up new lines of interesting / amusing dialog.

[Sensuki]

Perform (Ode) and Profession (Basketweaving)

Edited October 27, 2012 by Sensuki

[Tamerlane]

Daggerfall's climbing. Can't make me HALT when I'm running across the rooftops, stupid guards!

 

Doesn't have much application to PE, though.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Tamerlane

[Durinax]

persuasion, I love it when I can open up new dialogue (but there cannot be no % success indicators, you should just have to choose a thing to say and figure out if it is going to work based on how you read the situation.)

[HumanFlesh+5]

persuasion, I love it when I can open up new dialogue (but there cannot be no % success indicators, you should just have to choose a thing to say and figure out if it is going to work based on how you read the situation.)

 

me, too. additionally i also like pickpocketing, if it is implemented well enough. because you can solve quest another way and get special items you normally wouldn't get.

[rjshae]

I wouldn't mind seeing a method for displaying skills as a "group". That is, certain skills can benefit from the synergy of the group working together. For example, the sneak skill of the group would not necessarily be equal to the lowest sneak skill within the group. The more skillful members can signal the poor sneak skill members to avoid noisy surfaces, move more slowly over certain areas, halt until a distraction occurs, and so forth. Another example is the Appraise skill, which can benefit from multiple members with that skill, even if just one party member has a high skill ranking.

[Sacred_Path]

Hunting/ foraging skills, and crafting skills; i.e. skills that let you provide for your party, having something to do with ressource management. I'd like to see crafting at a very basic level like in NWN2, just that this time, it should be actually worthwhile to craft (repair?) mundane weapons and armor.

 

Apart from that, language/ diplomacy skills are always very nice for character diversity.

[Shevek]

I want to see a survival skill done well. With plenty of gameplay (from setting up camp, to tracking, to travel) tied to it.

[Coaxmetal]

talk/speech skills or pickpocket

[Rosveen]

Pickpocket! I'll rob everyone blind.

 

Lockpicking, but it's a no-brainer, my first character is always a thief. Speech - when I feel like playing a silver-tongued rogue. Streetwise - whenever it's available, which sadly doesn't happen very often.

 

I don't care about crafting at all.

[AW8]

Persuasion. I always love the opportunity to talk enemies down instead of cutting them down.

 

Now that I'm through with that sidebar, I have a much stronger affinity for the talking skills. And while someone will probably cry horror over this, I think its important that it be a trade-off. Only some characters will want to take these skills because investing in them means not investing in some other skills. Then I have the feeling that I'm really getting a reward for my investment when I can talk a clever way past a scenario or open up new lines of interesting / amusing dialog.

Of course. A smooth talker shouldn't be a master craftsman and master pickpocket as well.

[kabaliero]

Y'know what, if there's gonna be all kinds of rogue skills, i actually wanna player to see how it affects stuff in the world

well, not like all of his actions, but some basic stuff that might make a man re-consider his random pick-pocketing

or chest lock-picking, or house-robbing.

 

You know.

 

See people with babykids being stuffed out in the snow cause they can't pay the rent, or, or, some tavern owners getting slaughtered infront of everybody by the local mafia cause they couldn't pay too, or an alchemist who was saving up, out of altruism, for a lab to make that wonderful vaccine for the rampaging medieval sickness - wouldn't be able to, coz guess what ->

-> u robbed his ***!

 

ofc, making sure to weave all those actions into the forming reputation thing

and all the sweet karmic kickback stuff, which makes a knave's life miserable,

if only they're not a charming and intelligent people's person,

self-loving enough to concentrate on something more important

like their front lawn, or a statue for their backyard fountain

 

 

oh and my favorite non-combat skill is "search for traps"

[smithereen]

I'm going to be the downer here - I don't like how a lot of these skills have been implemented in the past. Crafting leads to OCD, I would also really like it if robbing people blind had some negative consequences, or at least made your party upset if they find out. Actually, that sounds like a great opportunity for roleplaying and character development.

 

I would also really, REALLY like to see a few opportunities for lying to backfire. In the past. anything marked as a dialogue skill check was "click here to win!" No more of that, please.

 

Perception should be very important.

[Badmojo]

Always fun of speech, especially the charisma/seduction route where you can go all james bond on a target and convince them to do anything for the potential to be with you. Vampire the masquerade did this really well. Although I like all speech types, although I rarely go the intimidation route, that always felt like a step away from violence. Lets see

 

- Charisma/sedution

- intimedation

- bribe

- blackmail

- lie

- diplomacy/logic

 

 

then there is good old taken out a target by other means

- Pay/convince another group to attack the group, so you do not have to do anything but clean up the mess and survivors

- poison, planting a bomb, sniper from shadows..etc without having to fight everybody and most times nobody knows who did it.

 

 

Some of these are fun, but I do prefer avoiding physical fights whenever possible. However, I would like to see something done with magic and psychic abilities. Perhaps altering memories, or turning the character into a thrall under your control, etc. Something new.

[Thangorodrim]

There are lots of possibilities depending on how they design the world.

• Speech skills (flatter, intimidate, interrogate, etc) are always interesting and give more variety to the dialog options.
  

• I like the idea proposed of some sort of observational skill that lets you detect traps or secret doors more easily (maybe give you some flexibility if you didn't want to bring a rogue/thief character)
  

• Bash as an alternative to lock pick is always nice for strong fighter types.
  

• A first aid or medical skill, maybe combined with some sort of Herb lore skill would be useful and maybe give some flexibility on the priest types who are usually in a party strictly for healing or management of undead foes.
  

• Woodcraft and exploration skills for Ranger type characters are also useful and interesting.
  

• If items or gold become rarer as some people have proposed in other threads then some sort of bargaining or shopping related skill could be useful.
  

• If we have weapon or item degradation then a repair or blacksmith/leathersmith skill would be useful.
  

[smithereen]

Also, as an aside, I've always thought the requirement to have a rogue in the party felt really contrive. Really? There's no way I can get through this door or into this chest without lockpicking skill? Maybe if it's a solid iron safe, otherwise... the rogue should be able to do it quickly and quietly, but that two-handed axe I'm carrying should work on a wooden sea chest at least as well as it works on plate armour.

 

Note that I'm not saying I don't want a place for rogues, but their place should be in low durability/high damage/nonleathal damage combat roles, forgery, fast talking, and above all, stealth.

Edited October 30, 2012 by smithereen

[Larkaloke]

Speech skills (bluff, intimidate, diplomacy, et cetera) are usually interesting. Wilderness Lore and other perception type skills can also be quite interesting, I think, when they're made use of (I've always liked the various bits of information you can pick up in Icewind Dale II about various areas using Wilderness Lore). Pickpocketing can be good sometimes. Healing seems as though it might be quite a useful skill in this setting. Lore skills are nice, for item identification and picking up information (and the occasional extra dialogue option).

 

However, my favourite would be Find/Remove Traps or the equivalent thereof. That, to me, is the real reason to have a thief in the party: traps. I love traps. I like finding them, I like disarming them, and I love it when they go off and something horrible happens. There's no reason to worry about a thief not being needed in the party if you have lots of good traps; let people bash away at locked chests and doors.

[Archmage Silver]

I always go for the equivalent of Diplomacy/Persuasion because I enjoy conversations in games so much, and getting more information out of the characters is always interesting.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Archmage Silver