Forlorn Hope Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 I was playing LoL for the fist time the other day and saw that every female had large breast with silly armor. I thought of this thread lol. http://www.flickr.co...geon/445978342/ And no man would be caught with that on the battlefield. I have to disagree on that. I'm pretty sure the design was used in combat and tournaments. 1 "Maybe your grandiose vocabulary is a pathetic compensation for an insufficiency in the nether regions of your anatomy."
rjshae Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 Remember the supposed slanterns in Baldur's Gate? Do you recall their pick-up line: "Hey sexy, do you want to take a look at me ditties?" Well, you may be surprised to learn that a 'ditty' is actually a short song. Hence, despite their attire, these young ladies were really just aspiring musicians; pop tarts, if you will. Isn't that charming? 1 "It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."
Amentep Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) I was playing LoL for the fist time the other day and saw that every female had large breast with silly armor. I thought of this thread lol. http://www.flickr.co...geon/445978342/ And no man would be caught with that on the battlefield. I have to disagree on that. I'm pretty sure the design was used in combat and tournaments. Everything I've read (and remember) said the phallus cod-pieces came into vogue once armor became about fashion rather than function. Dunno if what I've gathered over the years is accurate, but I'd think a protrusion in your armor right there that could easily take a hit (intentionally or accidentally) would be something you'd not want to encourage. Edited October 22, 2012 by Amentep I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
Forlorn Hope Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 I was playing LoL for the fist time the other day and saw that every female had large breast with silly armor. I thought of this thread lol. http://www.flickr.co...geon/445978342/ And no man would be caught with that on the battlefield. I have to disagree on that. I'm pretty sure the design was used in combat and tournaments. Everything I've read (and remember) said the phallus cod-pieces came into vogue once armor became about fashion rather than function. Dunno if what I've gathered over the years is accurate, but I'd think a protrusion in your armor right there that could easily take a hit (intentionally or accidentally) would be something you'd not want to encourage. You are partly correct: "Thus the codpiece is usually found on armor used for fighting on foot, both in war and tournament, and, although of some protective value, it has always been as much an element of fashion as one of defense." http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/aams/hd_aams.htm#weight_b 1 "Maybe your grandiose vocabulary is a pathetic compensation for an insufficiency in the nether regions of your anatomy."
Attero Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 You see what you want to see. Want realism ? Then all physical classes would basicly use same models for female and male armor with just different faces, i think devs would like that too as it would be fewer models to make. Only for mental classes female features are not in the way when fighting (not as much at least) so those could be more "female". I just question one's sanity when asking for realism in fantasy ... I dont think there is any rpg with oversexualisation and looking at Obsidian history it wont be problem here. They will aim for what pleases general public most and i belive bulges in heavy armor are overally accepted even when they make no sense both from body build perspective and fact that plate armor was never tight fit. Extremes can hopefully use mods to suit game to their taste. This "You want realism in a fantasy?! LOLOL!!" argument is really dumb and tiresome. People, or at least I, don't want realism, they want internal consistency. If you can't tell the difference between those, go read a dictionary. And yes, exactly, all classes and genders should use similar armor models. Why would it be any different? Plenty of games have that, from BG to Skyrim. Except that bulged armor doesnt endanger consistency and both BG and Skyrim did respect female features.
DocDoomII Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 I haven't seen a single person write that they don't want to see nudity in the game. On the other hand, lots of people think that when nudity occurs, it's often unrealistic and fan service to male gamers (which it often is, duh). I'd rather not see any fan service at all to any gender or sexual orientation, or any (partial) nudity which is there only for the sake of it. I honesly can't think of many places nudity (since this is NOT a voyeur simulator) would really be fitting in a serious RPG but I will try to come up with a few: Naked victims of a massacre/murder/genocide (maybe they were raped, or stripped of their clothes for humiliation) Naked tribesmen of a primitive civilization "Naked" magical creatures, such as demons, fey, et.c. Other than these, I've really hard to see where nudity would fit in any sensible way... I'm totally fine with that. And as I said in one of the previous incarnation of the topic, I liked how the female were portrayed in The Witcher 2 (and 1, setting aside the stupid sex cards). So it's not about removing nudity for me, it's just about removing armored swimsuits. If a whore is dressed in revealing drags is fine to me. But the problem is that the discussion is usually driven by the "we want boobs" faction. 1 Do you think Pillars of Eternity doesn't have enough Portraits? Submit your vote in this Poll!
Badmojo Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 Fudge, fine lets keep this vitrol thread going and who cares that this is politics and destracting and will probably end up ruining the game for many who do mot want political PC propaganda shoved in there face. Honestly, if this is the direction obsidian chooses, I will seriously regret giving them money. I gave them money to get away from publishers, esrb, and the pc crowd in orde to give them the freedom to create what they want without restrictions. The boobarmour showed a particular direction they were planning and they caved because of some pc trolls spamming the board. If they are changing the original ideas to please this group then this is a slap on the face for those who donated money exactly to get away from this. On a side note, So there are no sexy women waliking around in sexy clothes in real life, only in brothels? Funny, I just walked by a dozens of them just a few minutes ago heading into work.
Chabneruk Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 But the problem is that the discussion is usually driven by the "we want boobs" faction. I fact, it was mostly not a discussion at all, after the OP merged the "Women in PE"-Thread with the one about "Feminism". Not a good decision... I refrained from restarting the Topic as "Part 2" because it was pretty obvious the trolling would keep going on. But its still a good thing that this topic keeps being discussed. Might send some signals to the devs (...which already had some good female chars in their other games. Before someone adresses this again. And again...) 1 "Was du nicht kennst, das, meinst du, soll nicht gelten? Du meinst, daß Phantasie nicht wirklich sei? Aus ihr allein erwachsen künft'ge Welten: In dem, was wir erschaffen, sind wir frei." - Michael Ende, Das Gauklermärchen
Umberlin Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 This "You want realism in a fantasy?! LOLOL!!" argument is really dumb and tiresome. People, or at least I, don't want realism, they want internal consistency. If you can't tell the difference between those, go read a dictionary. The only thing I'd feel need to note here is that, given Obsidian are far, far, from releasing all the details on the world, society (various) in it, their cultures, few or many beliefs, and so on - there is lots of information we don't have beyond that - . . . I wouldn't feel comfortable talking about what's consistent internally yet. "Step away! She has brought truth and you condemn it? The arrogance! You will not harm her, you will not harm her ever again!"
Amentep Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) In the end, will anyone really care - if the game is good - whether or not Cadegund's armor had extremely detailed boobs on it? Would anyone be put out - if the game is good - if some ritzy society lady is wearing a sexy but unrevealing party frock or if the barmaid is showing a bit of cleavage or if the villagers all have sensible shoes? EDIT: That is to say, I think the art direction is really up to Obsidian as they determine what this world is and what makes sense for it. Edited October 22, 2012 by Amentep 1 I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
DocDoomII Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 Fudge, fine lets keep this vitrol thread going and who cares that this is politics and destracting and will probably end up ruining the game for many who do mot want political PC propaganda shoved in there face. Honestly, if this is the direction obsidian chooses, I will seriously regret giving them money. I gave them money to get away from publishers, esrb, and the pc crowd in orde to give them the freedom to create what they want without restrictions. The boobarmour showed a particular direction they were planning and they caved because of some pc trolls spamming the board. If they are changing the original ideas to please this group then this is a slap on the face for those who donated money exactly to get away from this. On a side note, So there are no sexy women waliking around in sexy clothes in real life, only in brothels? Funny, I just walked by a dozens of them just a few minutes ago heading into work. Wait, are you WhitKnighting the devs? Because they said that the armour would have been changed anyway, since the boobplate was not the initially intended direction. But you'll just say that it was said so only to appease the anti-boobplate faction. 1 Do you think Pillars of Eternity doesn't have enough Portraits? Submit your vote in this Poll!
Margaretha Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) In the end, will anyone really care - if the game is good - whether or not Cadegund's armor had extremely detailed boobs on it? It's only a detail, of course (Cadegund's armor has been fixed, does not bother me so anymore, but is still "genderized", by the way). And it would be just that, a minor detail, like "sensible shoes" or tissue colours, if we did not live, all of us, in a society of masculine domination. What if the story took place in an equivalence of Senegal, or South Africa, and each black people here were depicted by the devs like Banania's Senegalese infantry man? (very popular... and controversial figure in France). It stops to be a detail fairly quickly. Edited October 22, 2012 by Margaretha
Rink Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) It is true that it is a problem in rpgs that women are often not wearing much or armor that is too revealing to be practical. I wonder if it would be really different if lots of women played RPGs though. That doesn't mean that there is any relevance for this topic in P:E. Ever seen Annah from Planescape Torment? She looks like this. Doesn't really matter if she looks like in Docs signature the whole game long, right? And the question I would ask is: would you be able to identify her as a woman at all if she didn't look like that? :D Edited October 22, 2012 by Rink
Orogun01 Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 What if the story took place in an equivalence of Senegal, or South Africa, and each black people here were depicted by the devs like Banania's Senegalese infantry man? (very popular... and controversial figure in France). It stops to be a detail fairly quickly. Then your main character would be white...again. I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you.
Monte Carlo Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 ....if we did not live, all of us, in a society of masculine domination 3
Amentep Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 In the end, will anyone really care - if the game is good - whether or not Cadegund's armor had extremely detailed boobs on it? It's only a detail, of course (Cadegund's armor has been fixed, does not bother me so anymore, but is still "genderized", by the way). And it would be just that, a minor detail, like "sensible shoes" or tissue colours, if we did not live, all of us, in a society of masculine domination. That was really my point though, in regard to the idea that changing Cadegund's armor was some PC move (I actually think it looks better changed, personally, so I like the second armor purely on aesthetics) - its a moot point if the game is good, if the character well written and all that. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
Monte Carlo Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 It's still not enough. It never is. The long march never ends until we are ALL THE SAME.
kenup Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 Huzzah! We reached 8 pages. Now the topic is going to stay up for eternity! Huzzah!
Azarkon Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 Also, it is embarrassing to kill female enemies that are overly exposed (forsworn half naked bandits in skyrim for example). Armor that makes the opponent too embarrassed to attack? Mission accomplished. There are doors
Amentep Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 It's still not enough. It never is. The long march never ends until we are ALL THE SAME. I'm all for having variety so people can flesh out (lewl) their character the way they want. And I'm all for the game makers to make their NPCs in ways they want. I'd argue for chainmail bikinis provided the clothing (can't really call it armor) has a negligible effect to protection. Or is magical. And then the player can decide if they want to be sexy or functional. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
Monte Carlo Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 In The Heroes (Joe Abercrombie, big fantasy war story about one battle, it's very good), there is a character called Whirrun of Bligh. Whirrun thinks his death has been foretold by a witch, and up until that point cannot die. Whirrun is a legendary swordsman and as mad as a fish. He wields a Zweihander called the Father-of-Swords (iirc). Anyhoo, in the climactic battle he decides to fight wearing next to nothing. Mainly because he is a lunatic who thinks he cannot die. Now, this is a cool reason to have partial nudity. How would we all feel if Whirrun of Bligh was a female character? I'd be cool. Or would the feminists have a fit of the vapours at the machinations of the patriarchy?
Margaretha Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 Some people here seem eager to sweep the issue under the carpet. On one hand, I'm glad to see you with a broom. On the other hand.. could you at least elaborate? Why do you feel so uncomfortable knowing such a thread exists? The sole idea of this thread created again each time it is closed seems to make you feel... sick, or febrile. 1
Monte Carlo Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 Nice to see you engage with the points raised.
DocDoomII Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 Also, it is embarrassing to kill female enemies that are overly exposed (forsworn half naked bandits in skyrim for example). Armor that makes the opponent too embarrassed to attack? Mission accomplished. OLD It has already been explained that in a Flight or Fight situation the brain do not care about such things. And anyway, if that would be real, a single naked woman could wipe out an entire army of straight men. Please, use your brain before posting. Do you think Pillars of Eternity doesn't have enough Portraits? Submit your vote in this Poll!
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