Margaretha

(was in Update #27) Does anybody know if the "very limited time" is still running, like the Paypal thing dead-line announced today?

My god idea would be Laudrous or Whatever. Laudrous the misshapen, god of the misshapen and the crippled. Usually shown as a male in tatters with a long thin beard and difformities on his body, aborted arms, twisted legs and gibbosity. Poker-face and a golden light emanating from his eyes, he would be the defender of the victims of leprosy, war wounded, monstrous born.

I do not think benevolence is a structural necessity. I do not think our "north" societes put benevolence as a central value, something used by them to stand. You know very well selfish is a norm and is praised. Benevolence is praised too, but as something "exceptional". The heroic fire-fighter, the good sister. If "the good" is to get rich, to have a "successful life", a car, children, good education, good health, being patriotic, etc., it is not the "good" of our adventure novels and games. So, I repeat myself, but I think "being good" has to feel exceptional. It may not feel exceptional for our character (being a hero, and all..) but it could be for us, players. There is no need to caricature what I say as in "Let's make being good so unappealing that anyone who isn't explicitly heavily Roleplaying focused ONLY will never, ever, ever do it" (actual quote). I will help people who want to not agree with me. A better argument (an argument at all) would be: "But, our society discourages involvement. You play a hero, good or not, evil or not, so you are getting involved by definition. Thus you find yourself in a position where being good is a possibility not as far-off as for a mister/lady Nothing". That is where the discussion could begin to be interesting. Because "yes indeed, very pertinent objection, thank you." and so, I could say something like "also, it is a videogame". And get back to the question of design. I guess a designer wants the player to feel involved. Hell, what if the player could feel all warm and fizzy inside when he is being sacrificially good in a meaningful quest? Somebody mentioned Bioshock, I really like this example. Putting its manichaeism and the different endings aside, it's a very boring and cosmetic game mechanics. Will you have your reward now (be evil) or later (be good)? Obviously, the dev team has had this discussion we have here. They decided to make "being good" a bit more difficult, with a big reward at the end, but in such a way that it does not really matter. Sadly, I am pretty sure they chose this direction because they did not want to make the spoiled players we are cry. Because we want the praises AND the candy. And we usually have. Can't we come up with something a bit more... rough?

You are guessing wrong. They are sexist as "a fact", not inherently (and so on for each of your assertions). I can understand the topic of sexism in general, in videogames more particularly, and more so in CRPGs is not something you have heavily thought about. Your opinions and your misinterpretations are really bold, however. [edit] I do not think most of you are intentionally trolling. Thinking that is reassuring but false. Many of you are just comfortably on the strong side of a social inequality, and never had many occasions to think about the damages you (your line of thinking) cause.

I am wasting precious minutes looking for such quotes, could you help?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Michel :D @Katrar sexism is not ok and as long as RPGs are sexist, there is a problem and "the people" will keep arguing against it. And sexist people will keep telling them to shut up.

And I am sure you have... dirty secrets. Come on, you can tell us.

Do not worry. There are 2 or 3 pages of "not this topic again" and "it should be locked".

Wow.

No, you are trying to give me examples of videogames where women are not objectified (according to you.. Dishonored, Max Payne, really??). I was not asking this.

Wow. I gave a reference to the most obvious sexist movie series amongst popular movies and.. you are able to say something along the lines of: it's a movie "for women" and James Bond is somehow reified to please the female audience. Poor vilified men! I know you do not feel vilified. What you are trying to say is that women are not either. Now, you'll explain me they are glorified all day long on our (TV and computers) screens the same way. May be a difficult task.

Isn't some James Bond going on screen these days?

You mean the stereotype where men are mountains of muscles, with 140 IQ, lightning reflexes and get the chick at the end? oh.. so.. suffering.. @Brannart: TV, or not TV ads? Lego? your own house? etc.

Of course, you do realize that "women in the kitchen", or "women as sex fantasies", is NOT politically incorrect? it's a norm. It's been installed and is kept by the current and powerful societal structures Of course, you do realize that the very reason women are depicted as sexy/romanceable/weak/etc; IS a crowd pleaser? And maybe, do you realize you are one of many in the crowd? and that you are not the victim here but the bully? (why am I bothering with question marks..)

We have some good ideas here. Thanks people, and Wench and judeobscure and Suen and Klarean! (Grumpy Tigrane, you should make an effort). @judeobscure Hmm! it's prolific and full of ideas. Meta intertwined. The game master, inside his own game, as a teller, a rewarder, a mob... Looking after references... : Some of it, we may find in Witcher 2... Psychonauts (