evdk Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 I'll toss this back up, if nothing else than as something for anyone new to the thread to read and consider if they so wish. It basically appears people want character growth and development amoung the party that can include rivalry, sword-brother/sister, best friends, platonic loves, or straight up lovers. Having a believable evolution of interactions between a diverse group of people who are traveling for great lengths of time together through various situations that binds them together in equally diverse ways. It just is insane to me that people want character interactive growth in every way except romance... because romance is somehow eeeeeeeeeebil. But two people who have wildly different moral stances can learn to despise each other and one eventually betray the PC and/or leave the party is A-OK, right? There is literally no difference between the two when both are written well in the sense that both are showing a growth and changing of feelings between two characters dependent upon the choices that are made throughout the story. When handled by an experienced and creative writer, like the ones we have at the helm here, both are equal. What I have just pointed out is a compromise in that I have said what people here want: A solid well written story with characters that matter. You can't section off one way people interact, especially when they're with a small group of people for a very long time and facing various situations, but say that all of the others are fine. The whole point is that we are all, every single person here, expecting the writers to be up to the task of crafting a powerful engaging story. With realistically understandable characters. I don't want one-dimensional card-board cutouts.... this means I want them to run a realistic gambit of emotions: hate, joy, disgust, envy, revenge, heroism, villainy, love, despair.... It is all there, it all matters. I am not saying 'it should be like X game!' and I don't expect it to be. I want it to be the game that the creative staff at Obsidian envisioned when they first started this project. They don't HAVE an enforced time-line. They don't HAVE a Triple-A Tyranical Over-Company demanding they meet pointless milestones, deadlines, or pandering. What I DO expect is for it to be well written. Romances bring in weird people, just wait for the pie charts and graphs proving dev's bias against whatever. Say no to popamole!
Pshaw Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Merrill (DA2), Tali (Mass Effect) Ok now you are trolling. I ignore the other two, but with these ones no one with a brain should take you seriously. You don't have to like their storylines, but Tali and Merrill had their own problems that were not linked with the main character in any way. Tali had the difficoult relationship with her race and her father, Merrill had her quest for the Eluvian. I hate Merrill and I consider her a childish emo girl that does nothing else but cry around and complain that no one wants to help her, but this is just a personal judgement. Facts are that romancing her is totally optional, her storyline goes on with or without you by her side. Yes,and the main story was a mess consisting in mandatory side-quests.But you and others will undoubtly keep deluding yourselves that romances don't detract from more important things. DA2 wasn't a great game. It wasn't unplayable either. But in the end a game being bad that includes romances doesn't mean it was bad because of them. I mean the game has sword combat and a magic system for crying out loud, clearly you can't do both in 1 game and still have a good game! So let's be honest DA2 was a disappointment for many fans, myself included, but it had to do with the game being rushed and the swap to a pseudo mass effect play style in order to try and broaden the appeal of the game. DA:O was a fine game that had romances in it. The same goes for the ME series and BG series and yes to an extent Planescape Torment. Yes it's true that Fall-from-grace couldn't touch you and things with Annah only lead as far as a kiss but that doesn't mean they weren't romances. Everything about the dialogue showed how they felt about the Nameless One even if was never said outloud. In the end having romance options in game and having good game with interesting characters are NOT mutually exclusive. If there is a team out there that can do it in a way that would change the minds of all the doubters it's this one. So I save give them the chance to do so. Edited October 19, 2012 by Pshaw 1 K is for Kid, a guy or gal just like you. Don't be in such a hurry to grow up, since there's nothin' a kid can't do.
mya79 Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 I woulk like a romance than Bishop (but it's really he was no romanceable) but his personnality and dark was very good for the gamers womens. I don't want a romance easy and no mature, I prefert a good history with quality history with the quest.
jarpie Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 I'll toss this back up, if nothing else than as something for anyone new to the thread to read and consider if they so wish. It basically appears people want character growth and development amoung the party that can include rivalry, sword-brother/sister, best friends, platonic loves, or straight up lovers. Having a believable evolution of interactions between a diverse group of people who are traveling for great lengths of time together through various situations that binds them together in equally diverse ways. It just is insane to me that people want character interactive growth in every way except romance... because romance is somehow eeeeeeeeeebil. But two people who have wildly different moral stances can learn to despise each other and one eventually betray the PC and/or leave the party is A-OK, right? There is literally no difference between the two when both are written well in the sense that both are showing a growth and changing of feelings between two characters dependent upon the choices that are made throughout the story. When handled by an experienced and creative writer, like the ones we have at the helm here, both are equal. What I have just pointed out is a compromise in that I have said what people here want: A solid well written story with characters that matter. You can't section off one way people interact, especially when they're with a small group of people for a very long time and facing various situations, but say that all of the others are fine. The whole point is that we are all, every single person here, expecting the writers to be up to the task of crafting a powerful engaging story. With realistically understandable characters. I don't want one-dimensional card-board cutouts.... this means I want them to run a realistic gambit of emotions: hate, joy, disgust, envy, revenge, heroism, villainy, love, despair.... It is all there, it all matters. I am not saying 'it should be like X game!' and I don't expect it to be. I want it to be the game that the creative staff at Obsidian envisioned when they first started this project. They don't HAVE an enforced time-line. They don't HAVE a Triple-A Tyranical Over-Company demanding they meet pointless milestones, deadlines, or pandering. What I DO expect is for it to be well written. As I have said before I wouldn't have problem with romances done like in previous Obsidian games or PS:T, I'd prefer game not to have romances at all but if Obsidian decides to put some in, I trust them to do them well and not the Bioware-style, but my problem is with the people who demands/wants romances in even if they wouldn't fit the story and/or characters. Adding romances in game just for the sake of it shouldn't be done, as with anything. As I said in the previous topic there are lot of examples in fiction (yes, even with games) what doesnt have romances at all, and asked why this game specifically should have romances if Obsidian decides to write a game which wouldn't support it well. I wouldn't want romances in because it tends to bring that certain type of people into the forums and start demanding that all companions should be romanceable, and every possible gender-combination put in, and certain style of romances.
Merin Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Personally, I think BioWare, even at it's worse, has good writing still. And it's the formulaic nature of the romances in later games I disapprove of, not necessarily the content. I also happen to think Tali was a great character and a good romance. Merill.... Merrill was an incredibly uneven character, however. She wasn't written consistently. I couldn't tell if she was charmingly naive or just dumber than dirt - and at different times in the game you could make a solid case for either view.
qloher Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Merrill (DA2), Tali (Mass Effect) Ok now you are trolling. I ignore the other two, but with these ones no one with a brain should take you seriously. You don't have to like their storylines, but Tali and Merrill had their own problems that were not linked with the main character in any way. Tali had the difficoult relationship with her race and her father, Merrill had her quest for the Eluvian. I hate Merrill and I consider her a childish emo girl that does nothing else but cry around and complain that no one wants to help her, but this is just a personal judgement. Facts are that romancing her is totally optional, her storyline goes on with or without you by her side. Actually DA2 managed to do a pretty good job with making romanceable characters you chose not to romance still interesting. For me the most interesting character there was Anders even through I newer tried to romance him at all. ME2 on the other hand (even through I like this game much) had some obvious problems in that regard. Jack and Garrus for example had nothing to tell you later in the game unless romanced.
kenup Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Merrill (DA2), Tali (Mass Effect) Ok now you are trolling. I ignore the other two, but with these ones no one with a brain should take you seriously. You don't have to like their storylines, but Tali and Merrill had their own problems that were not linked with the main character in any way. Tali had the difficoult relationship with her race and her father, Merrill had her quest for the Eluvian. I hate Merrill and I consider her a childish emo girl that does nothing else but cry around and complain that no one wants to help her, but this is just a personal judgement. Facts are that romancing her is totally optional, her storyline goes on with or without you by her side. Yes,and the main story was a mess consisting in mandatory side-quests.But you and others will undoubtly keep deluding yourselves that romances don't detract from more important things. DA2 wasn't a great game. It wasn't unplayable either. But in the end a game being bad that includes romances doesn't mean it was bad because of them. I mean the game has sword combat and a magic system for crying out loud, clearly you can't do both in 1 game and still have a good game! Unplayable can have many meanings. All I know is that the "Story Mode" from ME3 should be used here instead. Then I wouldn't have to go through 1534562345623 enemies between cutscenes. And it wasn't bad because of romances? Jennifer Hepler was the lead writer, and she is a fangirl, a yaoi fangirl at that. And hates gameplay. Edited October 19, 2012 by LadyCrimson I think the opinion can be made without the visual help.
Kymriana Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) I'll toss this back up, if nothing else than as something for anyone new to the thread to read and consider if they so wish. It basically appears people want character growth and development amoung the party that can include rivalry, sword-brother/sister, best friends, platonic loves, or straight up lovers. Having a believable evolution of interactions between a diverse group of people who are traveling for great lengths of time together through various situations that binds them together in equally diverse ways. It just is insane to me that people want character interactive growth in every way except romance... because romance is somehow eeeeeeeeeebil. But two people who have wildly different moral stances can learn to despise each other and one eventually betray the PC and/or leave the party is A-OK, right? There is literally no difference between the two when both are written well in the sense that both are showing a growth and changing of feelings between two characters dependent upon the choices that are made throughout the story. When handled by an experienced and creative writer, like the ones we have at the helm here, both are equal. What I have just pointed out is a compromise in that I have said what people here want: A solid well written story with characters that matter. You can't section off one way people interact, especially when they're with a small group of people for a very long time and facing various situations, but say that all of the others are fine. The whole point is that we are all, every single person here, expecting the writers to be up to the task of crafting a powerful engaging story. With realistically understandable characters. I don't want one-dimensional card-board cutouts.... this means I want them to run a realistic gambit of emotions: hate, joy, disgust, envy, revenge, heroism, villainy, love, despair.... It is all there, it all matters. I am not saying 'it should be like X game!' and I don't expect it to be. I want it to be the game that the creative staff at Obsidian envisioned when they first started this project. They don't HAVE an enforced time-line. They don't HAVE a Triple-A Tyranical Over-Company demanding they meet pointless milestones, deadlines, or pandering. What I DO expect is for it to be well written. Romances bring in weird people, just wait for the pie charts and graphs proving dev's bias against whatever. Hahah, so WHAT? If we find out that you can be, or that there are, necros in the world... THAT just might bring in some really weird fellows, too. Or how about that Godtouched race, eh? Once we find out what kind of physical differences they have... that might bring in a whole lot of 'weird'... That doesn't matter. All that matters is the writers doing their job well with what they decide to go with. I just point out that it needs to be believable and cutting out one section of interaction because someone thinks it is "squicky" is just a bit on the 'nope' side for believable in-depth non-1-dimensional characters and story. PS: Guys, can we really stop the 'not in MY clubhouse' attitude, too? You don't get to decide who is and is not allowed on the forums. Going 'but if they put in romance at all, the CRAZIES will come here and we don't WANT them to' is really very childish. There are tons of people on this board that probably would make me twitch and feel the need to punch something if I read their threads or talked to them for extended periods of time. So guess what I do? I don't. There are going to be fans you like and don't like, that go too far off the deep end in one area or another. Edited October 19, 2012 by Kymriana Finishing first is only impressive in a race, my dear.
evdk Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Hahah, so WHAT? If we find out that you can be, or that there are, necros in the world... THAT just might bring in some really weird fellows, too. Or how about that Godtouched race, eh? Once we find out what kind of physical differences they have... that might bring in a whole lot of 'weird'... That doesn't matter. All that matters is the writers doing their job well with what they decide to go with. I just point out that it needs to be believable and cutting out one section of interaction because someone thinks it is "squicky" is just a bit on the 'nope' side for believable in-depth non-1-dimensional characters and story. I basically agree, mostly due to faith in the god-magic of MCA. But if they asked me what feature to drop to save money and the project, I know what I would answer Edited October 19, 2012 by evdk 1 Say no to popamole!
Merin Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Romances bring in weird people, just wait for the pie charts and graphs proving dev's bias against whatever. Fellow Obsidian forumite, it isn't just romance discussions that bring in the weird people demanding their tastes be satisfied and go on their own Quixotic crusades. Two words - Vancian, cooldowns
evdk Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Romances bring in weird people, just wait for the pie charts and graphs proving dev's bias against whatever. Fellow Obsidian forumite, it isn't just romance discussions that bring in the weird people demanding their tastes be satisfied and go on their own Quixotic crusades. Two words - Vancian, cooldowns Oh, I never claimed I wasn't weird. I just don't do pie charts. Say no to popamole!
qloher Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Unplayable can have many meanings. All I know is that the "Story Mode" from ME3 should be used here instead. Then I wouldn't have to go through 1534562345623 enemies between cutscenes. And it wasn't bad because of romances? Jennifer Hepler was the lead writer, and she is a fangirl, a yaoi fangirl at that. And hates gameplay. Jennifer Hepler never was a lead writer to any BioWare game, educate yourself. Also some of here characters are mighty good. Edited October 19, 2012 by LadyCrimson quoted video link removed
Monte Carlo Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Hey, adding to the neat Bardic-Necro-Love concept, I found this... Obviously, being a drooling undead minion might pose a few minor romance-type problems, but surely it's only fair we consider it.
kenup Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Also some of here characters are mighty good. Where? Who? The "Up against the wall" Isabela? Or the "virginal girl next door" Meril? Or the hawksexual terrorist, that every important person ignores at the end? 1
Meshugger Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Best romance ever, and the women would have a nonstandard body type too! Damn everyone wins. The forums DO produce good ideas. Of course. No one will be discrimated, love will be spread through every imaginable bodily fluid possible, and the player will be treated like a king. LadyCrimson: you may shut down this thread, everyone's wish has already been considered. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
evdk Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Also some of here characters are mighty good. Where? Who? The "Up against the wall" Isabela? Or the "virginal girl next door" Meril? Or the hawksexual terrorist, that every important person ignores at the end? She worked on Orzammar IIRC, so someone form there possibly. Say no to popamole!
Merin Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Romances bring in weird people, just wait for the pie charts and graphs proving dev's bias against whatever. Fellow Obsidian forumite, it isn't just romance discussions that bring in the weird people demanding their tastes be satisfied and go on their own Quixotic crusades. Two words - Vancian, cooldowns Oh, I never claimed I wasn't weird. I just don't do pie charts. That wasn't directed at you, per se, but just in general. People who get bee's in their bonnet come in all stripes... and I need to stop mixing my metaphors...
Living One Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Merrill (DA2), Tali (Mass Effect) Ok now you are trolling. I ignore the other two, but with these ones no one with a brain should take you seriously. You don't have to like their storylines, but Tali and Merrill had their own problems that were not linked with the main character in any way. Tali had the difficoult relationship with her race and her father, Merrill had her quest for the Eluvian. I hate Merrill and I consider her a childish emo girl that does nothing else but cry around and complain that no one wants to help her, but this is just a personal judgement. Facts are that romancing her is totally optional, her storyline goes on with or without you by her side. Yes,and the main story was a mess consisting in mandatory side-quests.But you and others will undoubtly keep deluding yourselves that romances don't detract from more important things. DA2 wasn't a great game. It wasn't unplayable either. But in the end a game being bad that includes romances doesn't mean it was bad because of them. I mean the game has sword combat and a magic system for crying out loud, clearly you can't do both in 1 game and still have a good game! What I wrote wasn't hard to understand:you brought up Dating Age 2 while saying that romances don't detract from other parts of the writing.No need to comment further on such statement.Just like I'll refrain from commenting on the sword vs magic thing. So let's be honest DA2 was a disappointment for many fans, myself included, but it had to do with the game being rushed and the swap to a pseudo mass effect play style in order to try and broaden the appeal of the game. DA:O was a fine game that had romances in it. The same goes for the ME series and BG series and yes to an extent Planescape Torment. Yes Fall-from-grace couldn't touch you and things with Annah only lead as far as a kiss but that doesn't mean they weren't romances. DA2 was the biggest disgrace to ever happen to the RPG genre with its trash mobs,poor writing,creepy romances(including one with a loli) and terrible level design(wich 'quality' was an even bigger issue than the repetition). DAO was a mediocre game that had the same problems of its sequel,just to a minor extent.It managed to be successful due to lack of direct competition and people's low standard.Same with Mass Erection series. BG series was good except for BW's cheesy writing. The fact that you feel the need to clarify that despite not touching you TNO/just kissing you TNO...let's just drop it. All of the game you mentioned had poor masturbatory romances,except for the Grace one wich was merely tolerable. In the end having romance options in game and having good game with interesting characters are NOT mutually exclusive. If there is a team out there that can do it in a way that would change the minds of all the doubters it's this one. So I save give them the chance to do so. Well founded budgetary concerns won't go away because you people ask it without giving good reasons.
mya79 Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 For me the romance in DA2 was very bad and they are so stereotypes ! Morrigan was more mysterious and complex than Isabella for example !
HereticSaint Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Merrill (DA2), Tali (Mass Effect) Ok now you are trolling. I ignore the other two, but with these ones no one with a brain should take you seriously. You don't have to like their storylines, but Tali and Merrill had their own problems that were not linked with the main character in any way. Tali had the difficoult relationship with her race and her father, Merrill had her quest for the Eluvian. I hate Merrill and I consider her a childish emo girl that does nothing else but cry around and complain that no one wants to help her, but this is just a personal judgement. Facts are that romancing her is totally optional, her storyline goes on with or without you by her side. Yes,and the main story was a mess consisting in mandatory side-quests.But you and others will undoubtly keep deluding yourselves that romances don't detract from more important things. DA2 wasn't a great game. It wasn't unplayable either. But in the end a game being bad that includes romances doesn't mean it was bad because of them. I mean the game has sword combat and a magic system for crying out loud, clearly you can't do both in 1 game and still have a good game! What I wrote wasn't hard to understand:you brought up Dating Age 2 while saying that romances don't detract from other parts of the writing.No need to comment further on such statement.Just like I'll refrain from commenting on the sword vs magic thing. So let's be honest DA2 was a disappointment for many fans, myself included, but it had to do with the game being rushed and the swap to a pseudo mass effect play style in order to try and broaden the appeal of the game. DA:O was a fine game that had romances in it. The same goes for the ME series and BG series and yes to an extent Planescape Torment. Yes Fall-from-grace couldn't touch you and things with Annah only lead as far as a kiss but that doesn't mean they weren't romances. DA2 was the biggest disgrace to ever happen to the RPG genre with its trash mobs,poor writing,creepy romances(including one with a loli) and terrible level design(wich 'quality' was an even bigger issue than the repetition). DAO was a mediocre game that had the same problems of its sequel,just to a minor extent.It managed to be successful due to lack of direct competition and people's low standard.Same with Mass Erection series. BG series was good except for BW's cheesy writing. The fact that you feel the need to clarify that despite not touching you TNO/just kissing you TNO...let's just drop it. All of the game you mentioned had poor masturbatory romances,except for the Grace one wich was merely tolerable. In the end having romance options in game and having good game with interesting characters are NOT mutually exclusive. If there is a team out there that can do it in a way that would change the minds of all the doubters it's this one. So I save give them the chance to do so. Well founded budgetary concerns won't go away because you people ask it without giving good reasons. Dungeon Siege 3 is about ten times worse than Dragon Age 2, I could actually get deep into Dragon Age 2 before the stupidity known as Isabella made me stop. Dungeon Siege 3, well... let me check Steam...3 hours played. Yep, couldn't stomach another second. Dragon Age: Origins however was quite good. Edited October 19, 2012 by HereticSaint
qloher Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Also some of here characters are mighty good. Where? Who? The "Up against the wall" Isabela? Or the "virginal girl next door" Meril? Or the hawksexual terrorist, that every important person ignores at the end? The hawksexual terrorist first and foremost. Loved his magic trick in the end. Other two are also good, also I handed Isabella over to Qunari in act 2, but that was for roleplay reasons, not because I hated how the character was written or something. Have no idea how she is in the third act through.
LadyCrimson Posted October 19, 2012 Author Posted October 19, 2012 Ban LadyCrimson. Not a fan of da bunny slippers, I take it? 1 “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
Pshaw Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Unplayable can have many meanings. All I know is that the "Story Mode" from ME3 should be used here instead. Then I wouldn't have to go through 1534562345623 enemies between cutscenes. And it wasn't bad because of romances? Jennifer Hepler was the lead writer, and she is a fangirl, a yaoi fangirl at that. And hates gameplay. So wait... you're upset that the game had a game in it and wasn't just a interactive movie? I have to kill dozens of enemies to reach the next bit of dialogue in a BG game as well. Also despite her apparent distaste for gameplay the gameplay in ME3 was incredibly well done. They combat was probably the best out of the 3 games. Also I don't see what the lead writers preferences have to do with anything. I mean to hear you say 'yaoi fangirl at that' just implies some absurd level of distain for a person you don't know. It's not unlike people saying, 'oh, you play video games? I'm sure your a 40 year old virgin living in your mothers basement with no friends and no life.' It's a complete cop-out. Her enjoyment of fanfiction, yaoi, or a combination of both have nothing to do with her ability as a writer. I think the story and world of mass effect were told in very convincing way. Granted it's just my opinion, but it's got nothing to do with her personal life only on the games. I'm willing to accept it if you thought the story sucked in the games but it's got nothing to do with her hobbies. Edited October 19, 2012 by LadyCrimson K is for Kid, a guy or gal just like you. Don't be in such a hurry to grow up, since there's nothin' a kid can't do.
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