We want a tarrasque type creature

[thidrums]

Since playing the IWD and the BG series I always wanted a super mega boss fight with a tarrasque type creature. Honestly, I think that in BG TOB there were too many dragons. That made the fights easier because the tactics were, sometimes, similar. With the inclusion of the mega dungeon maybe it's a good idea to include a tarrasque as the mightiest and deadliest creature of the dungeon. The tarrasque's lore and characteristics are different from a dragon's, and I think that it will add to the overall game experience.

 

ARE YOU WITH ME? TARRASQUE FTW!!!!

Edited October 19, 2012 by thidrums

[.Leif.]

Sure. Just don't forget Father Dagon or his distant cousin Cthulhu.

[Krios]

The OP as I read it is calling for a tough tactical challenge. What came to my mind is those mega bosses that can shape change or will evolve through different phases, each phase of the same battle requires the player to switch tactics or juggle different skill combos to get a decisive advantage. Imo I think it's pretty hardcore and should only be available in expert mode.

[Pope]

I'm getting some vague flashbacks to the old BIS boards.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I'm getting some vague flashbacks to the old BIS boards.

 

6'8 Italian Warlord?

[Pope]

I'm getting some vague flashbacks to the old BIS boards.

 

6'8 Italian Warlord?

Yes, I couldn't remember his name, only that he kept changing it and we eventually referred to him by his member number.

 

OT: jeez, I can't believe how long I've been a part of this community. I've registered on these forums over 8 years ago and I don't even remember how long I was a part of the BIS boards before that. Time sure flies.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Pope

[Amentep]

We want a tarrasque type creature

 

Only if he shows up in an Oasis, just like he did in BGII:ToB

 

I'm getting some vague flashbacks to the old BIS boards.

 

[Rajaat the Warbringer]

I'd imagine the bottom of the Mega Dungeon will have some kind of super boss fight.

[Moirnelithe]

*googles "tarrasque"*

*blinks*

Yeah okay fine, whatever.

[RaccoonTOF]

I'd love to see a tarrasque-like creature, in as much as it has extensive lore behind it, is unique, otherworldly powerful, "impossible" to kill, etc - but i would not like to see a direct copy of the tarrasque itself for sure

[rjshae]

Hmm, a 48 HD CR 20 monster versus a party of 12th level characters? Sure, why not?

[thidrums]

Hmm, a 48 HD CR 20 monster versus a party of 12th level characters? Sure, why not?

 

Are the characters in project eternity going to be limited do 12th level? If so, then forget about what I said. But if they are going to be high level like in TOB, then I think it would be a nice addition to the game

[HansKrSG]

Since playing the IWD and the BG series I always wanted a super mega boss fight with a tarrasque type creature. Honestly, I think that in BG TOB there were too many dragons. That made the fights easier because the tactics were, sometimes, similar. With the inclusion of the mega dungeon maybe it's a good idea to include a tarrasque as the mightiest and deadliest creature of the dungeon. The tarrasque's lore and characteristics are different from a dragon's, and I think that it will add to the overall game experience.

 

ARE YOU WITH ME? TARRASQUE FTW!!!!

 

The Tarrasque, despite being a dragon mentioned in the story about Saint Martha in France, is a monster I think of as very D&D. And as this is not D&D, I am not sure if I agree.

I do agree to having an incredibly powerful monster that is optional to kill, but give great rewards if you do, though.

[Jasede]

I'd assume there's some wicked cool uber boss (entirely optional, hardest fight in the game) at the bottom of the 15-story dungeon. He may even change the ending slides. He should be so difficult that people complain about him being unbeatable and resort to cheating. (Because they're bad.)

Edited October 19, 2012 by Jasede

[UncleBourbon]

Since playing the IWD and the BG series I always wanted a super mega boss fight with a tarrasque type creature. Honestly, I think that in BG TOB there were too many dragons. That made the fights easier because the tactics were, sometimes, similar. With the inclusion of the mega dungeon maybe it's a good idea to include a tarrasque as the mightiest and deadliest creature of the dungeon. The tarrasque's lore and characteristics are different from a dragon's, and I think that it will add to the overall game experience.

 

ARE YOU WITH ME? TARRASQUE FTW!!!!

 

The Tarrasque, despite being a dragon mentioned in the story about Saint Martha in France, is a monster I think of as very D&D. And as this is not D&D, I am not sure if I agree.

I do agree to having an incredibly powerful monster that is optional to kill, but give great rewards if you do, though.

 

I think this is the more desirable situation. Kind of like the liches in Baldur's Gate, or the dragons in Dragon Age: Origins. I would like some story signifigance, even if it is just some after scene talking about unfortunate adventures dying while trying to best the legendary foe for generations, or instead that the success in besting the creature only added to the fame and made many think the hero was only a fairy tale.

 

Also: Anyone thinking demi-fiend in Digital Devil Tuner saga?

Edited October 19, 2012 by UncleBourbon

[Hypevosa]

What makes the tarrasque scary is when the DM actually remembers the thing's feats and unusual abilities... it has so many.

 

Basically its attacks ALWAYS hit, and his has power attack and greater cleave. So, assuming you have a player whose AC would only feasibly get to 30 without some cheese, it gets to add 17 damage and still guarantee a hit. It has such insane reach, you also provoke attacks of opporunity approaching or moving around it and it gets 4 attacks of opportunity due to combat reflexes. So any melee character that doesn't somehow get right next to it from the get go is likely dead, and any that does is also likely dead and so is any character within 5 feet of him due to greater cleave.

 

The carapace makes it immune to rays, lines, cones, and magic missile, (it says they're negated) with a 30% chance of those spells reflecting back upon the caster. So this relegates your mage to almost exclusively touch attacks... HA! If we go by the technical definition of a carapace, it is not immune to these attacks from its underside though, just its top and back.

 

When dealing with invisible foes, it has blind fight, so you don't get as many advantages, though it's better than it being able to just rip you apart at will. OH, and since it has scent, if you get within 5 feet of it (and it is a colossal creature) it automatically knows your exact location.

 

A 36 will save to not become shaken.

 

Automatically gets to eat you essentially at close range with a bite attack, and you have to deal 50 damage to its AC 25 digestive tract before you can exit.... all the while taking acid and crushing damage.

 

Immunity to fire+poison+disease+energy drain+ability damage, spell resistance 32, regenerates 40 hp per round, DR 15/epic,

 

Basically, unless you're cheesing the hell out of this fight some how, you should always die... always.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Hypevosa

[Brannart]

What makes the tarrasque scary is when the DM actually remembers the thing's feats and unusual abilities... it has so many.

 

Wow...ok that is just crazy.

[evdk]

We certainly don't.

[nikolokolus]

Is this the royal "we?"

[septembervirgin]

How about sea monsters with powerful soul-based abilities?

[Jaesun]

And it can only be found in an Oasis.

[Pshaw]

Seconded.

 

It doesn't need to be something as strong as the Tarrasque because I doubt we'll be reaching 'max power' or anything by the end of this game. I think they want to leave a bit of room for growth for expansions/sequels. I have no doubt that they could come up a legendary threat that while not viewed with god like power would still inspire an epic battle and a real feeling of accomplishment when defeated. I think those bosses that lurk in the wolrd that are harder than the final battle in the game are always fun. They make the world feel bigger than whatever is going on in the main story because even though that is what's most pressing to your characters story out there in the world there are bigger threats that have nothing to do with you.

[Hypevosa]

What makes the tarrasque scary is when the DM actually remembers the thing's feats and unusual abilities... it has so many.

 

Wow...ok that is just crazy.

 

I find that when players are having "easy" fights with what are supposed to be monsters challenging for their current level, the DM is to blame for forgetting that these monsters aren't simply HP and AC sacks that swing wildly at the player now and again. Dragons should never be easy fights, ever.

 

For example:

 

During my dungeon I made for my 2 friends and I as an epic level reward, and as a final dungeon, we had a flying ship that was being attacked by a black wyrm dragon, and, if we didn't stop it from doing so, we'd all be pretty boned. One of my party members, Vortavian, was a half dragon fighter that had wings - being an experienced dragon hunter (even had a philosopher's steel sword with enchantments specifically for wrecking dragons' **** up), he knew to try and take advantage of the massive dragon's poor flight maneuverability so that he wouldn't get attacked like crazy. He approached it from the rear to only get tail swipped, and, after successfully landing one hit on it, the dragon uttered a few words and suddenly turned around and began flying on its back, something you can't do with poor flight maneuverability...

 

My player needed to change into his brown pants when he realized the thing just cast fly on itself.

 

Vortavian also wore a potions bandoleer that allowed him to drink up to 5 potions as a free action by simply, well, eating them, being hearty enough to easily eat glass as I'd expect a half dragon to be. Black dragons have a corrupt water ability that allows them to even corrupt magical potions and make them useless - it used this so that when he reached for some potions not all of them worked.

 

All the while our sorcerer, Arcan, had also been wailing on this beast with delayed blast fireballs, doing enough damage that he was clearly too much of a threat to leave alone any longer. The dragon swooped by and plucked the sorcerer out of the sky (who had been flying himself to get away from the massive orc raiding party on board our ship). It began chewing on him and fighting my other player at the same time since it had the Snatch feat. Pissed that Vortavian was still getting the better of him, he opened his mouth in an attempt to catch both of them in a line of acid. Luckily, the sorcerer understanding what was about to happen due to a knowledge arcana check, escaped the moment its mouth began to open, right before the line of acid struck Vortavian. Extremely very intensely luckily, Vortavian had a ring of universal energy immunity and survived the ordeal. The dragon, entirely enraged now, plucked Vortavian from the sky - however, instead of chewing on him, the dragon made its grapple check to use Vortavian's own weapon against him (it's a light weapon for a huge creature)... a weapon designed to kill dragons, and Vortavian a half dragon... So it used its tongue to manipulate the philosopher's steel blade right into Vortavian's flank.

 

By this time, my character, Hypevosa, having dealt with my (essentially) evil twin who fled from on deck with an artifact we were supposed to protect, flew over and landed on the creature's head. Seeing Vortavian was clearly about to die, I used smite evil to augment my attack, and Vortavian began using his claws as a last resort. We barely reduced the thing to below 0 hp, and it fell unconscious from the sky to die on the ground thousands of feet below.

 

Did the dragon act perfectly? no, you shouldn't expect them too either, but they can have plenty of tricks and underhanded tactics to use, especially if you treat them as an NPC instead of just a monster, and give them the careful crafting they deserve.

[UncleBourbon]

I am on the fence on this one. Like Hypevosa explains, the creature should act logically, but not perfectly. AI limitations can be tricky, and for balance certain abilities may simply be turned off on some difficulty settings and on for others, with an AI that can kick butt regardless. I'd like a hard enemy to defeat - one that isn't "use this trick," or "this party setup makes it easy," but instead "use a reasonable party setup with dps over X and the ability to soak X damage per [round] while accounting for the occasional X, Y, Z, etc..." Making it far more you have the basics, but it is all the on-the-fly tactical adaptation.

[Hypevosa]

I think it's also important for the game to learn. If there are intelligent enemies, I hope there are, and your party has reputations for doing X,Y,Z during fights, they should modify tactics accordingly.

 

My party was known for hunting dragons, Vortavian's tactics well known enough that the dragon could prepare for it in advance. My tactics as a paladin were well known enough by my nemesis for him to be prepared as well. Only Arcan was really spared since his tactics actually do deviate from fight to fight on a regular basis.

 

If the player casts magic missile almost every fight and the party becomes well known, enemy mages who know we are going to show up should have shield prepared as a means to protect against it. If the player's mage is always buffed to hell, they should have Breach and Dispel magic prepared to fire off at the beginning. If the front line warrior relies a weapon that specializes in slashing attacks, have them wear armor that gives better protection against it. If the rogue normally leads off the fight by backstabbing the guy in charge, have his armor get the fortification enchantment to prevent it, or give him some enhanced means of spotting the rogue. Etc.

 

Intelligent enemies that plan on fighting us eventually shouldn't just use the same tactics over and over and over, they should learn what we are going to do, specialize themselves, and take every advantage they can.

 

I know this is a little difficult to program, but, to me, it's part of the I in AI.