How Would You Feel if the Fundraising Was Extended?

[GhostofAnakin]

Wouldn't bother me a bit, it would just mean that the game I already paid for becomes bigger and better than I paid for.

 

This is how I feel. The more time there is for pledges, the more things included in this game.

 

For example, it doesn't look like we'll hit the $3.5 million stretch goal of a new big city. If pledging were to be extended for another two week, three weeks, a month, would we then be able to reach that goal? If extra time allows us to reach a goal like that, I'm all for it.

[Chaos Theory]

I think with the kind of project they're now looking at, they really have no choice but to extend the release beyond April '14. I'll actually be concerned if they don't. They've raised enough funds to make a game the scope of BG and I really don't think they'll be able to pull it off, correctly, by then.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Chaos Theory

[Piccolo]

I really hope that make an official statement on this before the Kickstarter ends so everyone can properly evaluate where they stand with their pledge.

I guess the only downside of doing that is it might remove some of urgency that often leads to a surge in pledges as Kickstarters come to an end. Especially if they confirm that the reward tiers will stay exactly the same on the paypal site for a long period of time.

[Loranc]

I think with the kind of project they're now looking at, they really have no choice but to extend the release beyond April '14. I'll actually be concerned if they don't. They've raised enough funds to make a game the scope of BG.

 

You're out of your mind if you believe that. Half the cost of games these days is to publishing and advertising. Which PE was able to skip over entirely by recruiting us with their kick starter website, and we do most of the advertising for them.

[Ieo]

I really hope that make an official statement on this before the Kickstarter ends so everyone can properly evaluate where they stand with their pledge.

I guess the only downside of doing that is it might remove some of urgency that often leads to a surge in pledges as Kickstarters come to an end. Especially if they confirm that the reward tiers will stay exactly the same on the paypal site for a long period of time.

 

That's understandable, but easily alleviated by saying the higher tiers would be removed--e.g. everything above level $80 or something (with physical add-ons still available). Or remove specific rewards, which can be tricky. Absent removal of actual tiers, then raising the Paypal prices would be easiest, I imagine.

 

 

Edit:

 

I think with the kind of project they're now looking at, they really have no choice but to extend the release beyond April '14. I'll actually be concerned if they don't. They've raised enough funds to make a game the scope of BG.

 

You're out of your mind if you believe that. Half the cost of games these days is to publishing and advertising. Which PE was able to skip over entirely by recruiting us with their kick starter website, and we do most of the advertising for them.

 

His worry isn't about funding. It's about the project management timescale.

 

The funding-content model we see on KS isn't a pure linear relationship--Obsidian most likely would hire more devs/artists horizontally to cover their bases and stay on track for the spring 2014 release. Personally, I wouldn't mind some delay into 2014, but it's generally a good idea to maintain a project plan right up to that point and then decide whether they need to push back or not.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Ieo

[Superdeluxe]

I have no issue with it. Just make sure your original backers have the exclusive loot that won't be able to be had with the late comers

[Wirdjos]

I think with the kind of project they're now looking at, they really have no choice but to extend the release beyond April '14. I'll actually be concerned if they don't. They've raised enough funds to make a game the scope of BG and I really don't think they'll be able to pull it off, correctly, by then.

 

I said this quite a bit when the expansion was announced, but was informed by other posters that it was indeed quite possible. Beyond that, trust Obsidian. They've made these games before, made them on small budgets, and there's no publisher telling them when they have to do what. They clearly love this project as they are going to make an expansion with their own funds, so I'm sure they won't release a half finished or buggy game.

 

I really hope that make an official statement on this before the Kickstarter ends so everyone can properly evaluate where they stand with their pledge.

I guess the only downside of doing that is it might remove some of urgency that often leads to a surge in pledges as Kickstarters come to an end. Especially if they confirm that the reward tiers will stay exactly the same on the paypal site for a long period of time.

 

That's understandable, but easily alleviated by saying the higher tiers would be removed--e.g. everything above level $80 or something (with physical add-ons still available). Or remove specific rewards, which can be tricky. Absent removal of actual tiers, then raising the Paypal prices would be easiest, I imagine.

 

I imagine the status of paypal will just be announced after the kickstarter closes. I would hate to lose the chance at some of the physical goodies I mentioned earlier so I hope they go above the $100 tier.

[Loranc]

I really hope that make an official statement on this before the Kickstarter ends so everyone can properly evaluate where they stand with their pledge.

I guess the only downside of doing that is it might remove some of urgency that often leads to a surge in pledges as Kickstarters come to an end. Especially if they confirm that the reward tiers will stay exactly the same on the paypal site for a long period of time.

 

That's understandable, but easily alleviated by saying the higher tiers would be removed--e.g. everything above level $80 or something (with physical add-ons still available). Or remove specific rewards, which can be tricky. Absent removal of actual tiers, then raising the Paypal prices would be easiest, I imagine.

 

 

Edit:

 

I think with the kind of project they're now looking at, they really have no choice but to extend the release beyond April '14. I'll actually be concerned if they don't. They've raised enough funds to make a game the scope of BG.

 

You're out of your mind if you believe that. Half the cost of games these days is to publishing and advertising. Which PE was able to skip over entirely by recruiting us with their kick starter website, and we do most of the advertising for them.

 

His worry isn't about funding. It's about the project management timescale.

 

The funding-content model we see on KS isn't a pure linear relationship--Obsidian most likely would hire more devs/artists horizontally to cover their bases and stay on track for the spring 2014 release. Personally, I wouldn't mind some delay into 2014, but it's generally a good idea to maintain a project plan right up to that point and then decide whether they need to push back or not.

 

I see what you're saying and I have no issue with a later release. Even the BG EE was pushed back to the end of November. I thought he was implying that all the funds we'll have won't be enough to cover a larger scale game than BG. I think that if they keep the donations open after the kick starter ends we'll have around 6-10 million. The more of the game people see, the more the money starts to flow in.

[Humanoid]

I can see fixing two dates (or one) as deadlines for various aspects of the drive. The feature-lock date, and the physical goods deadline date (since they have to deal with nailing down order volume for the various doodads). By all means though, there should be no problem with continuing to take money for the digital tiers, provided it's made clear that this cash goes in the bank as pure pre-orders, not as project funding.

 

 

For what it's worth, Double Fine are still taking money, but only at the base level: stuff like T-shirts had been mailed out some time ago now.

[Piccolo]

I think they should certainly consider getting rid of the in-game items and signed collectables for the Paypal tiers, as well as beta. Also, I think the ridiculously high tiers that let you design stuff should probably go.

 

Then they should look at what's left and come up with new tiers up to about $500.

 

Or perhaps they could keep the signed collectables, but only have them at $1000, as the new highest tier.

[SqueakyCat]

I guess the only downside of doing that is it might remove some of urgency that often leads to a surge in pledges as Kickstarters come to an end. Especially if they confirm that the reward tiers will stay exactly the same on the paypal site for a long period of time.

 

Well, it may be good for those who waited, but it may not be fair to those who extended themselves at the beginning should they leave the reward tiers exactly the same post-Kickstarter. This is my first Kickstarter so I don't pretend to know the intricasies of this type of endeavor.

[Ieo]

I think they should certainly consider getting rid of the in-game items and signed collectables for the Paypal tiers, as well as beta. Also, I think the ridiculously high tiers that let you design stuff should probably go.

 

Then they should look at what's left and come up with new tiers up to about $500.

 

Or perhaps they could keep the signed collectables, but only have them at $1000, as the new highest tier.

 

Oh, agreed, any of the tiers with in-game addition should be removed from a Paypal option after KS. Digital tiers I have no problem with, especially if the add-ons are also kept open alongside Paypal continuation. It's those middling-high tiers with extra stuff like the collector's book/signed swag that Obs should either remove (the exclusives) or significantly raise the price for those particular tiers.

[Wirdjos]

I think they should certainly consider getting rid of the in-game items and signed collectables for the Paypal tiers, as well as beta. Also, I think the ridiculously high tiers that let you design stuff should probably go.

 

Then they should look at what's left and come up with new tiers up to about $500.

 

Or perhaps they could keep the signed collectables, but only have them at $1000, as the new highest tier.

 

I can understand dropping the signed items. As another poster mentioned earlier, they have got to be signing so many things at this point that it's going to be insane. I personally would like another go at the beta, but I would understand if they dropped it with the kickstarter or just before everything else.

 

Part of the purpose of this thread was to give Obsidian something to look at while/if they were deciding to extend the fundraising. It would be great if those that are comfortable doing so would mention how their pledges might be affected if everyone was allowed to donate after the kickstarter ends.

[Krios]

I am not exactly bitter about an extension but part of the incentive to donate is in the limited availability of it all. If it was not limited, many will plan and donate over time instead of one lump sum at once. Whichever way Obsidian goes with this I am okay with it. When I pledged I had already considered the limited nature may be changed. Bottom line I liked a lot of what Obsidian has shown us so far, that is the bigger factor which titled the scales. If it is for a limited time, that is a bonus.

[Chaos Theory]

I hear what you're saying, however, the April '14 timeline was for a game around $1.1 million, which is what they had hoped for. They now have three times that, and climbing, along with far more promised features. Assuming the content only doubles from their previous plan, they are going to be in a time pinch. Yes, they can hire more people, but at some point you have diminishing returns when you look at cost vs benefit. Employees aren't just their salaries, they also expect trivial things like health care (damn them!), etc. You can only hire so many people to make up time. Ultimately it's cheaper to pay 1 person and extend them several months than it is to hire 2 people. Lights and air conditioning (time) are generally always cheaper than hiring more personnel-- unless of course you're a 3rd world sweatshop.

 

Bottom line is that I strongly believe they will have to bump back the release date. And I'm OK with that.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Chaos Theory

[SqueakyCat]

Oh, agreed, any of the tiers with in-game addition should be removed from a Paypal option after KS. Digital tiers I have no problem with, especially if the add-ons are also kept open alongside Paypal continuation. It's those middling-high tiers with extra stuff like the collector's book/signed swag that Obs should either remove (the exclusives) or significantly raise the price for those particular tiers.

 

The best solution, in my opinion, is to offer the game and 'add-ons' (which they have already established and may be adding to in the next couple of days). Once you remove the exclusive items from tiers (which they should), there's little point to the tier system.

 

The digital tiers could remain as they do not involve shipping and handling.

[Loranc]

I hear what you're saying, however, the April '14 timeline was for a game around $1.1 million, which is what they had hoped for. They now have three times that, and climbing, along with far more promised features. Assuming the content only doubles from their previous plan, they are going to be in a time pinch. Yes, they can hire more people, but at some point you have diminishing returns when you look at cost vs benefit. Employees aren't just their salaries, they also expect trivial things like health care (damn them!), etc. You can only hire so many people to make up time. Ultimately it's cheaper to pay 1 person and extend them several months than it is to hire 2 people. Lights and air conditioning (time) are generally always cheaper than hiring more personnel-- unless of course you're a 3rd world sweatshop.

 

Bottom line is that I strongly believe they will have to bump back the release date. And I'm OK with that.

 

I think everyone in general is good with that. One of the few games that really pissed people off with a later release was Guild Wars 2 and that's because their response to the question was 'when it's ready'. Good communication is always a plus and Obsidian has 'great' communication. I am so excited and thrilled for this game.

[Wirdjos]

Bottom line is that I strongly believe they will have to bump back the release date. And I'm OK with that.

 

I think this is right mentality to have here. I'm don't know how games are actually made, so I don't know how all this new content is going to be managed.

calmed a lot of my fears as far as small budgets and what not. I believe Obsidian has proven they know what it takes to do projects with limited resources, so I don't think they are going to push the date back. However, we should all be prepared to be okay with a later release date should they choose to do so.

[Aedelric]

All this is essentially a pre-order, I see no reason why they would not keep Paypal open. After all the more funds the better the position Obsidian will be in to develop future Eternity titles.

 

I do not see this affecting Kickstarter people at all, they still get all their goodies regardless. They way I see it is just because someone arrives late to the party, does not mean they should miss out.

[wanderon]

The thing with limited run collector's items (physical goods), is that Obsidian has to contract with somebody who manufactures the items, depending on what it is (books, printed maps, etc.) they usually have to be ordered in batches, I'm not sure it would be easy for Obsidian to sit on a lot of inventory.

 

I don't know, maybe I'm under estimating the profitability of these goods?

 

I suspect the real issue here is the total number ordered and how much lead time it needs to ship on time with the game - this could easily be months before release so there would certainly be a point at which they would either have to cut off "new orders" and/or decide how many "extra pieces" they wanted to commit to in order to cover more orders after that date - but I agree that they are likely going to be uninterested in having a warehouse full of this sort of items "left over".

[Loranc]

The thing with limited run collector's items (physical goods), is that Obsidian has to contract with somebody who manufactures the items, depending on what it is (books, printed maps, etc.) they usually have to be ordered in batches, I'm not sure it would be easy for Obsidian to sit on a lot of inventory.

 

I don't know, maybe I'm under estimating the profitability of these goods?

 

I suspect the real issue here is the total number ordered and how much lead time it needs to ship on time with the game - this could easily be months before release so there would certainly be a point at which they would either have to cut off "new orders" and/or decide how many "extra pieces" they wanted to commit to in order to cover more orders after that date - but I agree that they are likely going to be uninterested in having a warehouse full of this sort of items "left over".

 

They can keep Digital orders open forever though. But for the physical items yeah... i'm not sure how they're going to handle that.

[Olauron Mor-Galad]

I think it is OK to use Paypal after the end of the Kickstarter campaign, but it seems reasonable to keep the total limits of rewards. There is a maximum of 200 allowed NPC rewards (not counting 10 000 pledges) and it should stay that way. It is just a matter of balance between ordinary and special NPCs. Of course, if developers see that they can raise this limit without hurting the game there is no such problem.

[wanderon]

Bottom line is that I strongly believe they will have to bump back the release date. And I'm OK with that.

 

I think this is right mentality to have here. I'm don't know how games are actually made, so I don't know how all this new content is going to be managed.

calmed a lot of my fears as far as small budgets and what not. I believe Obsidian has proven they know what it takes to do projects with limited resources, so I don't think they are going to push the date back. However, we should all be prepared to be okay with a later release date should they choose to do so.

 

I'm not so sure about this - I think the reason a lot of folks are leaning towards expecting this bumping back the release date is just becuase when games are produced in a more normal fashion (through a publisher) release dates are never mentioned this early and may typically be pushed back.

 

In this case I think what people are missing and/or forgetting is that Obsidian has already said that the stretch goals have been planned with the idea that if they get to X amount they will be able to add the staff & resources in order to facilitate the work involved in adding those goals - it's not like each goal is going to put all that new work on the exisitng staff and resources.

 

I'm also fairly confident that they considered carefully what each goal would take and erred on the side of caution knowing full well that issues always arise and I'm wagering that they are confident in their ability to reach those goals and I plan to remain very optomistic about that happening rather than going with the half-empty or Murphys Law outlook!

[Parhelion13]

It's still a business, so they will have to work with budgets and timelines. If they don't know what their final revenue will be, that makes it harder to plan out what they can accomplish. Hence, I'm guessing that, at some point, additional funding might have to go toward add-ons. Stuff like extra side quests, additional effects, more illustrations, and added random loot items. Not bad things for certain, but not really quantifyable stretch goals.

 

This makes a ton of sense to me.

 

One thing I would be interested to know is if they're using the current Kickstarter funds in the budget of the expansion which they've confirmed. My guess is that since it is included in all tiers $165 and above that they are, however this seems like it would be a great place to direct funds once the Kickstarter officially ends.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Parhelion13

[Loranc]

It's still a business, so they will have to work with budgets and timelines. If they don't know what their final revenue will be, that makes it harder to plan out what they can accomplish. Hence, I'm guessing that, at some point, additional funding might have to go toward add-ons. Stuff like extra side quests, additional effects, more illustrations, and added random loot items. Not bad things for certain, but not really quantifyable stretch goals.

 

This makes a ton of sense to me.

 

One thing I would be interested to know is if they're using the current Kickstarter funds of the expansion which they've confirmed. My guess is that since it is included in all tiers $165 and above that they are, however this seems like it would be a great place to direct funds once the Kickstarter officially ends.

 

I still want more T-shirt designs . I mean I don't mind the current ones but I would LOVE a t-shirt with this on it, yeah I know... a little ridiculous. But my point still stands, there are plenty of ways to continue funding a project, selling items like hats/t-shirts/hoodies, really adds up over time. The only problem is getting them made/shipped etc cost money as well.