Exclusive In-Game Content

[Emeraude]

Some see the Kickstarter transaction as nothing more than another form of pre-order, and additional content as just another kind of pre-order bonus (and I do not find anything wrong with the position, though I do not share it). But some see it as donation, a gesture of goodwill allowing the making of something they long have dreamed of seeing done again. A pre-order bonus that flatters self interest in exchange for philanthropy - which is how the exclusive content is being perceived - just produces a weird cognitive dissonance for them. The whole proposition value of the process is changed.

 

@Anek: Higher tiers may modify the content of the game, but that content shall accessed the same by all people who play the game. That's a key difference.

The pet end exclusive item may not be much, but they will change the experience if only by a marginal bit.

[Labadal]

When it comes to actual game content? Give it to everyone. Extra goodies are fine.

[rjshae]

Some see the Kickstarter transaction as nothing more than another form of pre-order, and additional content as just another kind of pre-order bonus (and I do not find anything wrong with the position, though I do not share it). But some see it as donation, a gesture of goodwill allowing the making of something they long have dreamed of seeing done again. A pre-order bonus that flatters self interest in exchange for philanthropy - which is how the exclusive content is being perceived - just produces a weird cognitive dissonance for them. The whole proposition value of the process is changed.

 

Yes, it feels a bit like contributing to PBS; they provide meaningful content that I enjoy and which a purely commercial enterprise would normally be likely to cut. I'm not really all that concerned about the extras that come with PE, other than the boxed game. (The extras are still nice, of course.)

 

Now if they came along later and said they wanted to do a pre-release kickstarter for a Tales of the Sword Coast-like expansion, I'd likely contribute to that to. But at that point I'd like to see lots of screenies and other cool stuff first.

Edited October 7, 2012 by rjshae

[ddillon]

A note: I am reluctant to add options differentiating "meaningful" or "significant" content from "cosmetic" content to the poll because the value of content is subjective to each player. Feel free to ask/argue for those options if you want them, in which case I will further consider adding them (but I am sleepy and going to leave the forums in a few moments, so it might be a while before I read your posts).

[Gecimen]

I had already pledged $50 but I hate 2 facts about this exclusive content; first off, people who had pledged $25 will feel their game lacks something from the full package. And then, I really hate to carry around a vanity pet that can't take damage or die. I'd really prefer a low damage but combatant pet.

[Lady Evenstar]

So long as exclusive content doesn't affect gameplay (i.e. no starting out with items that affect game balance). it doesn't concern me. I thought Morrowind's EB helm was well handled. It was a worthwhile item, but it was located in a sufficiently dangerous location that the player didn't get it until a point in the game where it was a choice rather than an obvious best in slot. Bethesda also made it available for free download (under a different name) after the initial sales period.

[teknoman2]

let's be honest. if the pet or any item, is a reward for those who gave X$ or more, it should be available to them and only them. the same way you don't give a medal to every partecipant of a 100m sprint so they won't feel bad because the top 3 got medals, you also don't give a reward meant for the 100+ or the 1000+ tier pledgers to everyone else (either before or after the release of the game). it's not fair for those who paid more for the reward if everyone gets it in the end

[RiceMunk]

For purely cosmetic stuff (puppies, silly titles), I don't care.

For actual content (read: dialogue, combat encounters, companions, side quests), I hate it.

For content that has a clear link to the main plot, kill it with fire. Dip it in molten lava. Put a cross through its heart and bury it at a crossroads.

[Theobeau]

The mechanical dog of ME3 added (a very, very) little colour to the game so if PE's pet follows that model, there shouldn't be much to worry about.

 

However in the unlikely even that it follows the Day 1 DLC model used in the same game then I imagine quite a few people could get very p**sed off.

 

That said, by starting a Kickstater project and interacting with the fan base as constantly as they have been, I'm fairly confident that OBS know which model better reflects the collaborative approach to game design that they have been advocating.

[IndiraLightfoot]

For purely cosmetic stuff (puppies, silly titles), I don't care.

For actual content (read: dialogue, combat encounters, companions, side quests), I hate it.

For content that has a clear link to the main plot, kill it with fire. Dip it in molten lava. Put a cross through its heart and bury it at a crossroads.

 

I tend to agree with this sentiment, but not entirely with its logic. Here's my take: Kill it with fire. Put a sharpened cross through its heart and bury it at a crossroads. Then pour in a crucible of molten lava (Whence it came, I haven't the slightest). Finally, place a monolith on top, an obelisk with glyphs of warding would be even better.

[rjshae]

When it comes to actual game content? Give it to everyone. Extra goodies are fine.

 

Yep, but they can also sequence when the goodies are given based on whether you are a contributor. Getting a +1 whatsit at 2nd level is more beneficial than a +1 whatsit at 10th level.

[Amentep]

For purely cosmetic stuff (puppies, silly titles), I don't care.

For actual content (read: dialogue, combat encounters, companions, side quests), I hate it.

For content that has a clear link to the main plot, kill it with fire. Dip it in molten lava. Put a cross through its heart and bury it at a crossroads.

 

I tend to agree with this sentiment, but not entirely with its logic. Here's my take: Kill it with fire. Put a sharpened cross through its heart and bury it at a crossroads. Then pour in a crucible of molten lava (Whence it came, I haven't the slightest). Finally, place a monolith on top, an obelisk with glyphs of warding would be even better.

 

I agree; I don't really care about extra content as long as the content isn't going to effect the main game at all.

 

I finally played through FALLOUT NEW VEGAS with some of the specialty packs and...didn't really change the game at all. You got some "neat" stuff to start with, but nothing that you'd miss if you didn't have it.

[Krios]

If something is tagged as exclusive, make it so. It justifies the value and the price tag. If a company charges extra later for 'exclusive' content, chances are people will refrain from throwing in extra at the start to get the exclusive content, cos it is not really exclusive, a trend is established, then there is that lost of trust, and people will know that right off. Like me I know a lot of 'free' pre-order bonuses will eventually be re-released again as DLC. If I wait, I can save money and probably still get the same content as those who had paid more for the same. Good for me who had waited I suppose, but to me the company's reputation took a hit.

[crazyrabbits]

As for modding it all in, I agree it is likely and probably will happen regardless, but that would not be entirely legal, nor a reasonable compromise.

 

It shocks me how many people still forget or choose to ignore consumer laws. When you buy a product, you gain a licence to use it in the way you see fit. You cannot sell, copy or reproduce it for commercial means, but you can access the files on-disc and do what you will with it if it's clearly of a non-commercial nature.

 

This is what Bioware ran into (multiple times) during the release of the ME3 From Ashes and CE content - the FA character model was on-disc, and could be unlocked to play with (sans dialogue) in the game itself. Likewise, most of the CE content (the N7 weapons, the robot dog) and the pre-order bonuses were on-disc and hidden behind unlock keys. The company had a hell of a time trying to tow the line between their previously-liberal modding stance of the past and EA's current anti-consumer policies.

 

I don't mind timed exclusive content, and if it's an inconsequential thing (a cosmetic item or a pet) it's no big deal, but when companies start chopping out sets of weapons and armor to sell as bonus material, you end up with situations like DA:O and DAII, where several exclusive and pre-order items were never released (not even on ther DA:O CE) and never will be. Anyone that wants the "complete" edition of the game would be missing out.

Edited October 8, 2012 by crazyrabbits

[Rabain]

The IE games and PE are pretty much single player games (yes we had co-op in IE but it was never big), throwing a carrot around this early is perfectly fine. After all Obsidian are trying to get as much cash as they can and we get a bigger game. The effect of cosmetic items on players who don't have them is minimal.

 

I trust them not to give out +10 swords of awesomesauce to high pledges but enticing some more money by putting cosmetic game content in certain brackets is a good idea.

[ogrezilla]

I like it as long as they don't have an effect on in game balance. that is not an option in the poll.

[Ieo]

As for modding it all in, I agree it is likely and probably will happen regardless, but that would not be entirely legal, nor a reasonable compromise.

(snip)

I don't mind timed exclusive content, and if it's an inconsequential thing (a cosmetic item or a pet) it's no big deal, but when companies start chopping out sets of weapons and armor to sell as bonus material, you end up with situations like DA:O and DAII, where several exclusive and pre-order items were never released (not even on ther DA:O CE) and never will be. Anyone that wants the "complete" edition of the game would be missing out.

 

I think this and similar posts are toeing an idea not fully explicated yet existing in full force out in the gaming nethers. Microtransactions (under the DLC umbrella).

 

Microtransaction DLC is reviled in many quarters because it (1) no longer places emphasis on a "complete ship product," (2) can affect game balance issues between the haves and have-nots, and (3) allows companies to package content for piecemeal purchase in such a way that players may end up paying more for a product than if it was traditional "complete ship" (of course, that also means that smart and not-hardcore consumers may end up saving money too). The advantages to companies are rather obvious. For people unfamiliar with this idea, game microtransaction DLC covers everything from fluff to actual gear and other in-game objects and quest content.

 

Feelings against microtransaction DLC arise from the old-school expectation, I think, that a complete ship game should be complete in all respects, not including future expansions, which is a different topic. However, the pet is one of those weird little things that throws a wrench into the equation yet doesn't fit the above Hate Model™.

 

On one hand, we can draw a line in the sand based on principle--no in-game content should be available exclusively. The problem with this view is that other complete ship games have done it before, and it's an industry standard in that way, e.g. in collector's editions or preorders (Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn CE). And on the other hand, we can draw the line based on effective content such as quests or powerful gear (e.g. BG2:SoA CE and many other games now), because that's "real" content; this can be further broken down, however, between quests and gear. But then there's availability from "third parties" that I won't get into.

 

Evaluative priority varies person to person and determines where this line is drawn, among quests and NPCs, gear, fluff. I personally place fluff at the lowest priority, so this pet doesn't bother me in the least, but let's look at it this way: The pet follows stricter parameters in the existing industry model in that it's available only to Kickstarter backers at a certain tier (a bit different from preordering a collector's edition, which I expect would be available at the beginning of 2014--but would people opposed to the pet really complain about such a thing in a preorder CE that they can't afford at the time?) and, unlike many of the other digital gifts in past and current games, is expected to have no utility whatsoever.

 

With those two points taken in conjunction, this Kickstarter pet in my opinion doesn't fall into the ethical business trap outlined above and even in comparison to a number of the older CE boxes coming at a higher price. Demands for the fluff available at lower KS tiers smells, frankly, of simple entitlement issues.

 

(Also, considering how much Obsidian has been changing the tiers in the middle of the Kickstarter---Obsidian, that's bad form. I know you want to encourage people to bump tiers, but by cheapening the mid-higher tier rewards, you're also encouraging people to drop their pledges. So stop it, please. Upgrades should be pure additions, not lowering existing higher rewards to lower tiers. That's how tiering works--the entire model requires exclusivity as the driving factor for pledges.)

 

Now, I would never support post-ship microtransaction DLC in PE of quests/NPC/gear. Ever. I would light afire copious amounts of canine dung upon the doorsteps of Obsidian if that were to happen. This sort of model cannot be undone very easily, if at all, and I've experienced the steady decline of a gaming community due to the business model shift, but that's a different beast. A proper expansion/full sequel or bust.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Ieo

[Labadal]

When it comes to actual game content? Give it to everyone. Extra goodies are fine.

 

Yep, but they can also sequence when the goodies are given based on whether you are a contributor. Getting a +1 whatsit at 2nd level is more beneficial than a +1 whatsit at 10th level.

 

I reread my post and it doesn't make much sense.

 

What I meant is that no one should be locked out from any game content. The pet won't really have an effect on gameplay, so people missing that isn't the end of the world.

By extra goodies, I meant stuff like soundtrack, boxeed version etc. Those are things that make sense to give to backers that pledge more. But don't cut ANYONE out from content that is useful in the game. I know there is one in game item, but as long as it's not something totally gamebreaking, that's okay.

[Rosveen]

I reread my post and it doesn't make much sense.

 

What I meant is that no one should be locked out from any game content. The pet won't really have an effect on gameplay, so people missing that isn't the end of the world.

By extra goodies, I meant stuff like soundtrack, boxeed version etc. Those are things that make sense to give to backers that pledge more. But don't cut ANYONE out from content that is useful in the game. I know there is one in game item, but as long as it's not something totally gamebreaking, that's okay.

Yes, but who will decide what's useful and what's not? The pet is important to me; it would help me roleplay a classic wizard with a familiar, or a ranger (depending what kind of pet we get). It might not affect the game in any way, but it changes my character's story - maybe I'll play a loner accompanied only by her loyal animal companion? It's impossible if I don't have access to pets.

 

Of course there's no tragedy if I don't get the pet; like you said, it's not game-breaking, it's a very minor thing really. But still.

 

Ideally, there should be no exclusive content. However, we're talking about Kickstarter here; the whole point is that people receive more goodies for higher pledges. That's why I'm ok with this unspecified in-game item for early bidders and a pet for $50 and up. They have a minor impact on the game, if any at all, and they are a great reward for backers.

 

I also think that exclusives should at some point be available to everyone. There's nothing I hate more than pre-order exclusives that I'll never get! I'm not talking about this in-game item, whatever it is, that all backers get - from the looks of it it's more of a symbol that we can look at and think "Ha! I've been with PE since the very beginning!" than an item that will have a serious purpose. In-game badge, if you have it.

 

I'm not worried, though. It seems that we can mod this game, so pets, weapons and whatnot will soon be on Nexus

 

 

Its not like the pet is at a really high tier. It's at $50. That's a sum which everyone who is rich enough to have a computer with Internet access, can afford - if they want to.

Add different currencies and this might become a problem for some people. Not because it's extremely expensive - because you're right, it isn't - but it's still more than I paid for, say, Skyrim. I'd have to really believe in Obsidian and Project Eternity to give them this kind of money (fortunately, it so happens that I do digital funpack doesn't hurt either)

[crazyrabbits]

(snip)

 

Yes, I know about microtransactions very well - I've argued the same thing on other boards (even the BSN). It is an industry standard nowadays, and in some cases can horribly break the game for people who buy the CE (the aforementioned ME3 had a "Particle Rifle" that made the game a joke, even on Insanity difficulty).

 

This is why many major publishers want to go all-digital - they don't want to deal with fanbases whining when they chop out content piecemeal to sell back to them. We haven't hit the bottom of the microtransaction barrel yet, although we're getting close - you now have day-one DLC, mobile apps that affect the main game, weapon and content packs, "unlock" packs for multiplayer games, cheat codes being sold as DLC (via Capcom), new modes, costumes and characters hidden behind unlock keys, etc.

 

I trust Obsidian in these matters - an ingame pet isn't the same thing as a character (or multiple characters) being chopped out and sold back for $10 a pop. There are many people, though (even on this board) who don't understand the concept, and seem to look at everything in a black-and-white fashion.

[AGX-17]

What do you mean by "exclusive in-game content"? Are you suggesting PE will be rife with material plagiarized from other intellectual properties and that the controversy is original content produced by Obsidian?

Edited October 9, 2012 by AGX-17

[ogrezilla]

What do you mean by "exclusive in-game content"? Are you suggesting PE will be rife with material plagiarized from other intellectual properties and that the controversy is original content produced by Obsidian?

no. that is definitely not the question. It's about things in game that you can only access if you are a kickstarter backer. Such as the kickstarter only in game pet.

 

I personally have no problem with a cosmetic pet. But if they were to include things like characters or dungeons, I would not be happy about that.

[Rabidlamb]

I feel if it is an optional addon then it doesn't bother me at all. If offering a pet or cosmetic outfit gets more money for the game I say go ahead. If it affects the story, quests or characters then I would be against it.