Live recorded music, Poll 2.0

[kabaliero]

In BG2 i remember manually replacing some combat and casual day\night music with tracks from BG1. Which were more attractive, IMHO.

 

So BG1\ToB\IWD1 style soundtracks please. Those were perfect.

 

Don't know if they used live performance though. And don't rly care.

Edited October 8, 2012 by kabaliero

[Jarmo]

Music shouldn't detract much from the budget and neither should VO....just whatever they can develop internally through digital means. The game world and story choices are what matters, it would be a shame to sink hundreds of thousands on music.

 

I'm on the opposite side of this. Hundreds of thousands is pretty high, but blowing 5% of the budget on soundtrack doesn't seem too exessive to me.

Mostly I'd like there to be lots and lots of different pieces, for locations, battles and all. And then some for the important moments.

If finances allow, do splash out and make some of it with real orchestra, where appropriate. Music sets the mood almost as much as the story, don't skimp out there.

 

The other note I made on the other thread, is I'd love to have a real choir doing their stuff on some key events where going full epic is required.

It's probably financially completely out of reach, but there's really nothing that has the same emotional effect as a bunch of real people yelling about.

 

Now I still can't quite forgive the whole movie, but the fight scene in the end was the best of the series, made all the better for this.

 

Or to be more fantasy related, some stuff from Audiomachine, like this.

[Jarmo]

--- error ---

Edited October 8, 2012 by Jarmo

[Zeckul]

Sounds like someone needs to listen to a good rendition of the Rite of Spring.

 

Oh I have. Several time. Live. But see the point that directly preceded that part you quoted. I feel it is remote because it is removed from me. It's dead sound; a sunset viewed trough photochromic lenses. Intrinsic quality of sounds have very little to do with how much we love them (and I do mean sounds, which to me matter more than music... I have no problem listening to a sample a few second long going through a set of almost infinite pre-programmed algorithmic variations in Max/MSP, whereas that rendition of La Catedral, whose quality of execution humbles me, truly, has overcome its stay after 4 minutes - the satisfaction I can get from it is purely intellectual, and it leaves me otherwise cold; I cannot connect). Sound/music is a learned language. As with other languages, what you can understand and what you can taste can vary vastly.

 

For example, the bit of music/sound I loved most these past five years is in all probability

This speaks to me on a gut level. I understand it. And, to me, it's beautiful (granted, as with every other music here posted, youtube sound quality generally doesn't help). It simply floored me the first time I listened to it - and still does. To some of the classically trained friends I play with, it's just noise. It's quite simply not their language.

Well I can't argue about you and your tastes in music (thanks for the references btw, interesting stuff). I interpreted your comment about orchestral music being texturally inferior and flat in an objective sense, and presented what is incredibly dynamic and texturally rich orchestral music as a response. If it doesn't reach you, there's not much for me to say except we obviously don't share the same tastes.

[LordCrash]

Music shouldn't detract much from the budget and neither should VO....just whatever they can develop internally through digital means. The game world and story choices are what matters, it would be a shame to sink hundreds of thousands on music.

Just watch my linked youtube video, the interview with Kai Rosenkranz, composer of the Gothic 3 soundtrack.

I share his opinions about the effect of music on the player and the transportation of emotions through music. Escpecially in an old school game like PE with isometric graphics you're probably not able to display the feelings and intentions of character so you have to find other ways of displaying them - what you can mostly only do by written text or by music.

Music has the great advantage that it can directly address the heart of the listener, his emotions. It shouln't be only background music but music which really transports the emotions in the game directly to the heart and brain of the player. As I said, written text can do that do, but only partially. You will never get the same emotional immersion into the game as with music because text adresses our brain first and our heart afterwards, if good written. I do like text but it will never have the same effect than sophisticated music fitting to the game and its content.

[Emeraude]

@Zeckul:

Sorry for being needlessly verbose.

 

 

I don't know how/why that connection took hold - and again I'm preaching against my own really - but the more I think about it, the more I think

I mentioned earlier could just work as a good inspiration. Multi-cultural, fitting period, fitting the general expectations with enough of an interesting twist.

[AGX-17]

If it's meant to be an early renaissance-equivalent setting, shouldn't the music reflect that? No need for "ancient" music (not that anyone knows what that sounded like, musical notation didn't exist back then.)

Edited October 8, 2012 by AGX-17

[Cantousent]

We do have several images of ancient instruments. My educational background isn't in music, but it is in classical studies. I think, between texts and images, you'd find enough there to compose some music based on the instruments, wether or not that music would necessarily mimic how the ancients composed is probably another matter. I wouldn't know. Poetry used meter rather than rhyme, so maybe the things that we consider all important to music today wouldn't be the same as then.

 

EDIT: I don't know if that effort would be worth performed instruments, however.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Cantousent

[Justin Bell]

If it's meant to be an early renaissance-equivalent setting, shouldn't the music reflect that? No need for "ancient" music (not that anyone knows what that sounded like, musical notation didn't exist back then.)

 

Great question, one that we've gotten several times. Ancient is intended both figuriatively and literally. In some cases that will be the implied affect the music will evoke. In others it will mean using period instruments and musical practices (i.e. church modes, motets).

 

We've spoken before about how 16th century Europe is just one of many models that we're using as a reference for PE. Fortunately the musical practices of those times are pretty well documented, particularly for non secular music. Secular music on the other hand is a little more difficult to track down, though there are still examples.

[Ieo]

If it's meant to be an early renaissance-equivalent setting, shouldn't the music reflect that? No need for "ancient" music (not that anyone knows what that sounded like, musical notation didn't exist back then.)

 

The medieval/"ancient" in the poll is in reference to the instruments themselves, not necessarily the music (there's modern stuff being composed for lute, for example). The hurdy-gurdy dates back to something like the 9th Century CE. I'm not entirely sure what counts as "ancient," but "medieval" probably seems more appropriate...

[Cantousent]

If it's meant to be an early renaissance-equivalent setting, shouldn't the music reflect that? No need for "ancient" music (not that anyone knows what that sounded like, musical notation didn't exist back then.)

 

The medieval/"ancient" in the poll is in reference to the instruments themselves, not necessarily the music (there's modern stuff being composed for lute, for example). The hurdy-gurdy dates back to something like the 9th Century CE. I'm not entirely sure what counts as "ancient," but "medieval" probably seems more appropriate...

Ah, see, I"m such a doofus I got mixed up. In my mind, 9th Century AD isn't 'ancient.' :Cant's sheepish grin icon: I was thinking ancient Greece and Rome.

[Sugarjaye]

I think whatever they do they should at least put the effort for a major 'theme' song so to speak, just as long as they get the the hauntingly beautiful voice of Malukah to sing it, it will be awesome.

[casa]

I think whatever they do they should at least put the effort for a major 'theme' song so to speak, just as long as they get the the hauntingly beautiful voice of Malukah to sing it, it will be awesome.

 

I know many people like this one, but sorry, please not in the game. I generally dislike "Pop songs" in games, they sound anachronistic and cheesy... and I particulary dislike the piece above only for the strong echo effect that makes it too modern and synthetic. This would be one of the occasions where I really turn down the music in the game. Another popular example would be Leliana's song in Dragon Age: Origins, it made me cringe and turned a lovely companion into a... ugh... I just hated it.

IF there has to be a singer, please no cheesy reverbs and voice effects, it ruins the atmosphere completely. Go with something classy, when it comes to haunting voices and old music

comes to my mind.

[gakmen]

@Zeckul:

[...]

I don't know how/why that connection took hold - and again I'm preaching against my own really - but the more I think about it, the more I think

I mentioned earlier could just work as a good inspiration. Multi-cultural, fitting period, fitting the general expectations with enough of an interesting twist.

 

Yo-Yo Ma`s Ensemble sounds great (as always), so I`m all in favour of something like that in PE soundtrack!

[Sistergoldring]

I like a lot of other people here think good music is absolutely essential to the game. It carries the emotion the scene you experience (seriously turn off the music in a film you like and see what happens. Something went wrong with my TV once and we couldn't hear the music but still got dialogue. It was crazy neither my Hubby or I felt anything for the characters at all and yet it was a film we'd both really enjoyed before, it was just a completely flat experience). So I would absolutely support funding the music at whatever level will provide the richest experience but I don't really know what that level is here. I think it's best to say that we understand how important music is to the game and let Justin and co determine the best way to accomplish this.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Sistergoldring

[Sugarjaye]

I think whatever they do they should at least put the effort for a major 'theme' song so to speak, just as long as they get the the hauntingly beautiful voice of Malukah to sing it, it will be awesome.

 

I know many people like this one, but sorry, please not in the game. I generally dislike "Pop songs" in games, they sound anachronistic and cheesy... and I particulary dislike the piece above only for the strong echo effect that makes it too modern and synthetic. This would be one of the occasions where I really turn down the music in the game. Another popular example would be Leliana's song in Dragon Age: Origins, it made me cringe and turned a lovely companion into a... ugh... I just hated it.

IF there has to be a singer, please no cheesy reverbs and voice effects, it ruins the atmosphere completely. Go with something classy, when it comes to haunting voices and old music

comes to my mind.

 

It was mostly her voice rather than the song. I just think she has a haunting quality to her voice that might work.

[Falkon Swiftblade]

I personally would really prefer more music than not. Not that it has to be large orchestra, but I don't want the same 4 songs looped throughout, especially if there's several dungeons, I think the sound should have texture and layers to it, maybe sometimes it's choral, maybe sometimes it's a solo instrument, I guess it depends on the mood and themes the game is aiming to achieve. I like what I've heard so far. One theme that really surprised me was the theme song to Legend of Grimrock. If you haven't heard it, check it out.

[VIDEO]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d689QT0nEY4

[/VIDEO]

[Stephen Laughlin]

Justin, I don't want to be too forward, but I sent you a forum message about some inexpensive local possibilities for ensembles you guys might consider. Perhaps there's a way you wouldn't have to outsource for affordable musicians. As a classical guitarist and lutenist local to orange county I may be a little biased, but I'm going to say hell yes there should be live music. Small ensembles and soloists when appropriate.

 

Just an idea, but I think it would be cool if the larger cities had street musicians sprinkled here and there, near markets or around taverns, playing guitar, vihuela, lute, recorder, crumhorn, or viola da gamba sorts of things. I always loved those little instances of diegetic music/sound you would encounter while running around in the IE games, like the monks chanting prophecies at the beginning of Baldur's Gate. It made the world feel alive.

[LordCrash]

I personally would really prefer more music than not. Not that it has to be large orchestra, but I don't want the same 4 songs looped throughout, especially if there's several dungeons, I think the sound should have texture and layers to it, maybe sometimes it's choral, maybe sometimes it's a solo instrument, I guess it depends on the mood and themes the game is aiming to achieve. I like what I've heard so far. One theme that really surprised me was the theme song to Legend of Grimrock. If you haven't heard it, check it out.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d689QT0nEY4[/media]

Nice! Didn't know so far that LoG has such a cool main theme, like it!

[hideo kuze]

I think whatever they do they should at least put the effort for a major 'theme' song so to speak, just as long as they get the the hauntingly beautiful voice of Malukah to sing it, it will be awesome.

 

I know many people like this one, but sorry, please not in the game. I generally dislike "Pop songs" in games, they sound anachronistic and cheesy... and I particulary dislike the piece above only for the strong echo effect that makes it too modern and synthetic. This would be one of the occasions where I really turn down the music in the game. Another popular example would be Leliana's song in Dragon Age: Origins, it made me cringe and turned a lovely companion into a... ugh... I just hated it.

IF there has to be a singer, please no cheesy reverbs and voice effects, it ruins the atmosphere completely. Go with something classy, when it comes to haunting voices and old music

comes to my mind.

I also didn't like the echoes in the Malukah music, if it was more natural it could be something very nice.

 

About the Leliana's song, do you mean the song in itself or on how it was added with that cheesy cinematic?

I like the song, but I don't like that forced cinematic.

 

 

Just an idea, but I think it would be cool if the larger cities had street musicians sprinkled here and there, near markets or around taverns, playing guitar, vihuela, lute, recorder, crumhorn, or viola da gamba sorts of things. I always loved those little instances of diegetic music/sound you would encounter while running around in the IE games, like the monks chanting prophecies at the beginning of Baldur's Gate. It made the world feel alive.

YES!

Was about to mention this as well.

Not sure if this is possible, but I think a really nice touch would be to have something like this: you're exploring a village and it has its background music. While you get near to a small crowd gathering near a bard, the background music lowers its volume and it increases the bard's music... and his music would be something like

or the Malukah's music (but without the tech effects like the echo).

It's not just music, but they're singing a tale. That was how history spread during those times.

 

I'm sure there are a few dozen of backers that play some instrument (that fits in PE setting) and wouldn't mind contributing with a song or two for free, as it would also be something for them to put in their CV. Obviously it would need to pass some quality test.

Edited October 10, 2012 by hideo kuze

[Sensuki]

Justin, I don't want to be too forward, but I sent you a forum message about some inexpensive local possibilities for ensembles you guys might consider. Perhaps there's a way you wouldn't have to outsource for affordable musicians. As a classical guitarist and lutenist local to orange county I may be a little biased, but I'm going to say hell yes there should be live music. Small ensembles and soloists when appropriate.

 

I mentioned in one of the threads that there's sure to be a bunch of professional musicians in the 55K people that have backed so far, why not have some of the pieces of music for the environmental sound (at least) performed by the fanbase?

Edited October 10, 2012 by Sensuki

[casa]

About the Leliana's song, do you mean the song in itself or on how it was added with that cheesy cinematic?

I like the song, but I don't like that forced cinematic.

 

both. the cinematics were embarrassing, the song some kind of New-Age-desaster. There's beautiful folk music, even a cappella, and english/french/etc. lyrics that actually fit it... no need for such synth-orchestra-enya-style-made-up-language-cringeworthiness (just my opinion of course!). I couldn't even tell her to shut up or that the song was crap in the following dialogue...

[Bli1942]

I think it would be a very bad idea to have no live recorded music at all. Sure it will take some funds but I get the feeling some people are over-estimating how much it would cost. A recording studio hire and a small ensemble of experienced musicians would certainly cost a bit but it's not some huge cost that will severely impact the rest of the development at all.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Bli1942

[Sistergoldring]

About the Leliana's song, do you mean the song in itself or on how it was added with that cheesy cinematic?

I like the song, but I don't like that forced cinematic.

 

both. the cinematics were embarrassing, the song some kind of New-Age-desaster. There's beautiful folk music, even a cappella, and english/french/etc. lyrics that actually fit it... no need for such synth-orchestra-enya-style-made-up-language-cringeworthiness (just my opinion of course!). I couldn't even tell her to shut up or that the song was crap in the following dialogue...

 

I thought the song was beautiful and that the performer had a lovely voice. The animations didn't bother me and I found the whole thing quite moving and a really nice addition to DAO.

[Cantousent]

For my sins, I like Leliana's song also. It did feel kind of silly at first, but I just shrugged and went with it and it was actually a pretty little song and made for a gaming moment. I agree that it could have been done with maybe a single instrument. ...But it wasn't and I enjoyed it. Now, if I were going to put it together, I would probably go for a more simple approach like casa suggests. I think it could even be better, but that's art. You can't speculate too much about how to improve an expression of artistic talent because it's a thing in and of itself. shoulda woulda coulda doesn't matter after the last note dies or the ink dries.