Which historical elements to you want to see in Project Eternity: the Poll

[AW8]

Everything but worldwide misogyny, really. I like conflicts, discrimination and hatred as it makes for a more interesting world.

 

But I prefer there to be no default misogyny in fantasy settings, as seen in Star Wars and the Elder Scrolls. I'd like to see societies where female are deemed superior, and societies where men are deemed superior. But for most of the world I'd like to see gender equality. There are enough versions of the "female warrior disguises herself as a man and proves her worth, then removes her disguise, showing everyone that women are just as capable as men!"-scenario already. I'd rather have that as status quo from the start.

 

Even though people of high rank are still more likely to be men in such a world, there's at least possible for you to meet a ruler that makes you say "Wow, the ruler is a woman!".

Edited October 7, 2012 by AW8

[Archy]

Would love every one you mentioned and a rather large magic impact. Mages are clearly a part of the world and have impact but let obsidian decide what kind.

 

Every theme you mentioned would make the world feel more alive. As a recent example skyrim in addition to being flawed in a million other ways hardly had any of those and felt even more dead because of it. Whatever little was implemented didnt have any emotional impact and was just there for the sake of it. Make all those themes a seemless part of the world and you have a stage set for limitless interesting dilemmas and choices. The more political/religious/ethic/whateverelse themes there are for my character to reflect upon the more immersed I become.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Archy

[bronzepoem]

Very interesting topic

[Wombat]

I wouldn't mind any of the things listed to be in Project Eternity, however controversial they may or may not be. But neither do I want to see them in the game just because they can. I'd like to see a clear reason for why things are the way they are in the world.

Personally, I agree. I think such cultural melting pot fits the reputation system Obsidian have been maturing suites such world. It would be a fun place for role-playing by having variety of potential themes to be explored.

 

@AW8

Yeah, again, some variations would be nice. In FONV, while the Legion is quite male-centered, NCR have quite many female high ranking officers (not a surprise if you know the lore). Even in the Middle Ages, there were some female rulers but, I wonder how much of it is reflected to the lower classes of the society. Also, as some people mentioned, magic may have a role in male-female political relationship.

 

Would love every one you mentioned and a rather large magic impact. Mages are clearly a part of the world and have impact but let obsidian decide what kind.

Obsidian's brainstorming seem to have gone as far as a kind of market of the souls where poor people are forced to sell their souls - literally. I wonder if it comes into the actual game, though. For example, even further, soul stock market or something like that sounds too "modern" and satirical, which can destroy some of mythic feeling around the "soul."

[septembervirgin]

I'm unpleasantly surprised by the amount of people who want to see misogyny. It's not as if this doesn't exist presently. Then again, maybe all these voters are from egalitarian communes and have no experience with misogyny at all. I know there's a dearth of realistic misogyny in games, though... but to be honest, I'm not sure a designer living a relatively luxurious life wishes to fill a game with obnoxious qualities that offend a numerous portion of the fanbase both established and potential.

[Wombat]

No, you must be mistaken. I think you are making a mistake of mixing our real world politics with that of the imaginary word.

 

I'd like the PE world to have cultural/political variations. It's quite natural for each culture to have their own values in various things (or such values define each culture, in other words) - different viewpoints to men and women are just one possible aspect. I don't deny any aspect of human histories and I'd like to see some of them in the PE world in different shapes. However, at the same time, I'd like the designers to let the players allow to have their own stances. - this may be tough if a certain culture were dominant but, here is the point: the PE world is designed with cultural variations in mind. This is about the basics of role-playing games - building up personalized stories by playing roles, taking stances in imaginary settings. This is why the reputation system by Sawyer caught my attention in the first place. Besides PST, poor Obsidian have been tracked by me since then.

[Gorth]

I vote no to polls...

 

Somebody mentioned Xenophobia. Always a good source of conflicts. How about conservative versus progressive factions? Cultural imperialism (my gothic arcs are superior to your roman arcs, therefore you are an inferior being only suitable to live in mud holes, since you can't make a proper building)? Fashion fascists... Those who wear nose rings are superior to those who have nipple rings, kick the bastards with bad piercing taste outside the city walls. Somebody mentioned class struggle. I liked the way DA:O portrayed the caste system amongst the dwarves. Arranged political (and economical) marriages. Millennia old family feuds. Urbanisation versus hunter/gatherers and the "taming of the land" ("civilization" encroaching on fiercely independent people). Natural disasters and mass migrations. Incurable plagues (of divine origin?), cursed lands...

 

Lots of issues to provide conflicts. In fact, the world is full of them

 

[eimatshya]

I'm not really interested in seeing wide-scale misogyny in P:E. If there are certain cultures in which one sex is subservient, that's fine, but I think it would quickly become tedious for female characters to have to constantly prove their worth everywhere they go.

 

Disease also seems like it might be a bit odd, given the relative prevalence of magic, although I suppose there could be magical plagues like the wailing death.

 

Most of the other stuff seems fine to me, although I would be more interested in seeing how the game could explore the issues arising from the nature of souls. I think using medieval Europe as a base to extrapolate what a medieval society with widespread magic and reincarnation would look like would be really interesting. Figuring out how issues like colonialism and class would pan out in such a society seems far more interesting than cloning the prejudices and social problems of our middle ages and then dropping magic in.

Edited October 8, 2012 by eimatshya

[Sensuki]

And you didn't say mayhaps.

[ddillon]

I don't have a particular desire to see misogyny pervading the gameworld, but I do *not* want to see petite teen girls wielding gigantic two-handed weapons. Okay? I get that you have equal worth as a human being. Cool. That doesn't grant you the ability to defy physics. No, I don't care if you can channel soul power into strength. It's still stupid.

 

Now, a woman with a very athletic, amazonian build wielding a wicked two-handed axe... That could be cool.

 

Also: I don't want weapons for anyone, men or women, that are as big as the character wielding them. I *hate* that.

 

---

 

I'm not in the mood for writing much, so forgive my comical tone. Tried to get my point across without being too wordy, etc.

Edited October 8, 2012 by ddillon

[Gorth]

I don't have a particular desire to see misogyny pervading the gameworld, but I do *not* want to see petite teen girls wielding gigantic two-handed weapons. Okay? I get that you have equal worth as a human being.

Gunpowder. The great equaliser

 

[Nakia]

I am interested in a fantasy game not historical game. In order to have conflict in the game there will need to be conflicts not just with monsters and bandits which could get boring unless very innovative but with societies, classes, people in general, religions, prejudices.

Ideally for me the story should contain the ability to combat these things either by diplomacy or combat. It would be nice to be able to choose sides in some dispute.

 

As for magic it should play a role but should not be available for everyone. I like that gunpowder is available and can be used against wizards. I think the development of technology makes for a more interesting scenario.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Nakia

[Gecimen]

Well that's completely personal but I'd like to battle with religious fanatics if possible, and even convert some if possible.

[septembervirgin]

I would like it if our character can join cults and benefit from the contacts and community that membership in a cult provides.

[Silver6986]

Some of the issues suggested don't (from what little we know) seem to have any relevance to the PE world. Like Tech VS Faith - I'm not seeing a reason so far for religions to have any opposition to technology. In real life, religious opposition to technology (which was and is a lot more nuanced than common knowledge suggests) was mainly based on contradiction of doctrine. Since in PE the existence of Deities seems proven beyond all reasonable doubt, why should technological development change that? And disease - given that we've got healing magic that can mend a great-sword wound in a moment, that might suggest disease to be something less of a problem.

 

Also, I've never really liked misogyny being a massive theme in fantasy. Not least because a female mage can reduce you to dust just as well as a male one.

 

This all depends on a number of factors doesn't it? Say we take what the devs have said to be true with regards to the current landscape whereby there will be pockets of primitive societies, I would be quite happy to see misogynist examples made within such a place (if it is an interactive environment for example). But yes in a more developed setting I can see your point. I guess it depends on just how prevelant magic is?

 

I know it is tied to souls, but just how much of the common folk know the potential of their soul and how to access this? We don't know this yet.

 

Same with disease, in said primitive cultures this could be a real issue, expecially so if the culture shuns magic.

 

I think with everything I voted for I would be happy to see these within the setting of PE, they don't have to be massive, just relevant.

[Gyor]

Not just medevil Europe, Midevil India was interesting too.

[Ywerion]

I always found medieval Turkey very interesting, and what would be absolutely amazing, the implementation of Cossacks. I hope creators will pull satisfying balance between magick users vs arcane less heavy enviroment and population. From my viewpoint humans always tended to evolve the foremost in develpoing more and more ways how to kill one another in 1000 ways. What always strucked negatively in RPGs was that like almost everywhere the mages was guys who coul literally wipe out small army with snap of their fingers, but most of them didn't because... well, probably had better things to do, and was under all those beards and stuff good duys of sorts. I mean in fantasy world like PE for common folks any wizard must look like potential threat, but high ups/leaders/kings whoever surely don't take kindly for individuals with power of cannon battery. So logical result would be development of tools, tactics or weapons, something advanced enough to keep mages in check, while the things being accepted and working protection, that just makes magic user equal or at least not so drastically overpowered.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Ywerion

[Vargr Raekr]

I would be interested to see various sorts of currency in circulation (sometimes multiple currencies in a single area), sea travel that is unpredictable (perhaps not an instakill, but you might not end up where you had intended, in fact certain side quests could be started this way), a scholarship language like Greek, Latin, Arabic, or Sanskrit used by the educated classes, the ability to attend important political events like the Icelandig Althing and ...

 

*Reads thread.*

 

http://youtu.be/9zSHz7Thvbc

 

I've been playful up until now, but I feel I need to be, if not rude, then a bit sharp.

 

You know, loading the game chock full of Alan Moore-on-a-bad-day Grimdark^tm is not all that historically accurate.

 

Life expectancy was less, death was more common, violence was a way of life, and one nice thing about churches is that you probably wouldn't be killed by bandits if you traveled to one. Unless the bandits were Vikings. Then you would be extra killed.

 

But if your read through things like Skaldic Poetry, the Anglo - Saxon chronicle, the Icelandic family Sagas, and the Gesta Danorum; you'll find societies full of life and vitality, with a keen ear for a good yarn and an eagerness to experience life to the fullest (and with nowhere near the vitriol that has been on these fora for the past month.)

 

And that was the bad part of town, as far as the medieval world went. Byzantium, Keevan Rus, Arabia, and of course China had it even better. The Outlaws of the Marsh, for example, is a high spirited story about a small rebellion (108 active fighters) against what at the time was probably the biggest empire on the planet (China.)

 

The last thing Project: Eternity needs is for its fanbase to create innumerable threads begging the developers - who made Knights of the Old Republic II and Planescape: Torment with all of the accompanying mature themes therein - to add so much Alan Moore-on-a-bad-day Grimdark^tm to the game that it is no longer recognizable as a human story. Their reality (and our reality) had all the bad things on this poll, and the other polls, and the other threads, and the flame wars, and everywhere.

 

But to glob it all into a single narrative is a guarantee for piss poor storytelling.

 

Think of the human spirit found, for example, carved on a late classical Germanic sword: "Ulphr, of no small fame." That's all we know about Ulphr, that he owned a sword 1700 years ago, and that he had so much swag that he just knew he'd be renowned after his death. That makes a much better story focus than his sister marrying an abusive man, or his lord taxing him unfairly, or amazon delivering his pre-order three days late, or whatever else is on this list.

 

Start with a story, and tell that story honestly; and the "mature elements" will fall into place without the need of a checklist.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if I should back this project.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Vargr Raekr

[Death Machine Miyagi]

Start with a story, and tell that story honestly; and the "mature elements" will fall into place without the need of a checklist.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if I should back this project.

 

...you're second-guessing your commitment to a project because you don't like the premise of a thread on the project's forum?

 

This thread was not made by the developers, you know.

[ddillon]

Start with a story, and tell that story honestly; and the "mature elements" will fall into place without the need of a checklist.

 

Well said, +1 to that.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if I should back this project.

 

Tbh, I've felt that way after reading these forums, too. Focusing on what the developers are saying (especially the Kickstarter updates and Feargus' posts there) helped to bolster my faith in the project. Also, Obsidian seems to be listening to backers and providing features we want without surrendering the integrity of the setting.

[Brannart]

I am a big fan of religion in role playing games. Religion is such a touchy subject IRL so it is fun to play with it in a fictional setting. And generally I think RPGs do this really well. But with all this soul metaphysical stuff going on in PE I am sure there will be religion around.

 

I would love to have actual interesting and realistic ethnic and national conflicts and rivalries but generally RPGs do not do great at these. Even though they surround us IRL they require radically different cultures and perspectives and language barriers and all that. Also it is harder to simulate the intense emotional nature and family and blood ties and sense of identity and all that that go with those sorts of things. But if they could do it it would be fun.

 

So I guess those are two things I would find fun and interesting.

 

But at the end of the day what I most want to see are whatever elements from history that enhance the story they are trying to tell.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Brannart

[Brannart]

Actually nevermind just listen to Vargr Raekr

[Redwulf]

I personally would like to see a game world where the females are dominant and rule in a matriarchy. This would, make the world feel a bit different then what we are used to, and I think it would be rather refreshing.

[Shaz]

Just one question, re: misogyny.

 

In a world that is aware of souls, is aware of souls being reborn, where souls can fracture and split into multiple bodies, where multiple souls can reside in the same body, where souls are not gender-based, and everything is highly focused on the strength of souls....

 

...where a woman could have a pure, strong soul and a man might have a weak, fractured soul...

 

...where religions are vastly different...

 

...would it be likely that the same misogynistic culture would develop as has developed in many of our own?

 

Wouldn't the soul be the important thing in this world and not the gender?

 

(And on that note, one might question all the other options in the poll, seeing as how this game is not set on our Earth, is not set in our history, so it's kind of hard for it to be historical in the way we would be familiar with.)

Edited October 11, 2012 by Shaz

[Potemkin]

Class conflict of course! As discussed in this thread class stuggle must be in!