Darkpriest Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 It's because people mostly assume the worst case scenarios of said mechanics. For example "partial level scaling" - it can be done right - via clever placing of monsters etc. (very rare solution), and it can be done bad (Elder Scrolls) - Since the bad examples of level scaling are more imprinted in memories - they automatically get called up. Same goes with crafting and other mechanics *shrugs*. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evdk Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 VANCIAN STRONG! REMOVE SAWYER FROM PREMISES! 6 Say no to popamole! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grone Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) It's because people mostly assume the worst case scenarios of said mechanics. For example "partial level scaling" - it can be done right - via clever placing of monsters etc. (very rare solution), and it can be done bad (Elder Scrolls) - Since the bad examples of level scaling are more imprinted in memories - they automatically get called up. Same goes with crafting and other mechanics *shrugs*. These hypothetical arguments make up the definition of being an apologist. Level-scaling and cooldowns have always sucked RPGs. Hypothetical arguments to the contrary is nothing but blind hope that Obsidian will somehow invent a completely new design that will blow away everyone. Betting on mechanics that are already solid seems a much wiser choice with a low budget. Edited October 2, 2012 by Grunker 4 Extensive Pillars Review & IE-retrospective | GURPS: The Witcher | Let's Play: Way of the Wicked | Where Journalism Goes to Write Itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madzookeeper Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 It's because people mostly assume the worst case scenarios of said mechanics. For example "partial level scaling" - it can be done right - via clever placing of monsters etc. (very rare solution), and it can be done bad (Elder Scrolls) - Since the bad examples of level scaling are more imprinted in memories - they automatically get called up. Same goes with crafting and other mechanics *shrugs*. These hypothetical arguments make up the definition of being an apologist. Level-scaling and cooldowns have always sucked RPGs. Hypothetical arguments to the contrary is nothing but blind hope that Obsidian will somehow invent a completely new design that will blow away everyone. Betting on mechanics that are already solid seems a much wiser choice with a low budget. i can confirm that feargus took a whole lot of suggestions/ideas from the comments last night and e-mailed them to josh and the rest of the devs to be discussed. so there is a chance that it might be changing, or be tweaked in a way that you haven't thought of yet. Master Wetboy of the Obsidian Order of Eternity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blarghagh Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Not only overreaction theater, but lack of priorities theater. If Obs listens to the people on this board the game will end up all the worse for it. Thankfully, the Obs designers have vision and integrity - they won't cave to any of the awful ideas thrown forth here. It's become a cesspool of Battle.net proportions in record time. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teknoman2 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 look, we all know we are talking crap in this forum and barely 1% of what we say gets any notice from the devs. we just say too much to get more things to fit in that 1%. The words freedom and liberty, are diminishing the true meaning of the abstract concept they try to explain. The true nature of freedom is such, that the human mind is unable to comprehend it, so we make a cage and name it freedom in order to give a tangible meaning to what we dont understand, just as our ancestors made gods like Thor or Zeus to explain thunder. -Teknoman2- What? You thought it was a quote from some well known wise guy from the past? Stupidity leads to willful ignorance - willful ignorance leads to hope - hope leads to sex - and that is how a new generation of fools is born! We are hardcore role players... When we go to bed with a girl, we roll a D20 to see if we hit the target and a D6 to see how much penetration damage we did. Modern democracy is: the sheep voting for which dog will be the shepherd's right hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Living One Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Couldn't be arsed to read the whole thread.Is this one of those "whining because everything isn't candyland" kind of things? Also,glad to see what really is Obsidian after all thes years of 'we would like to do more it's just the publishers!1!'. I bet even David Gaider and Todd Howard would kickstart a less popamole game if they had a chance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madzookeeper Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 Couldn't be arsed to read the whole thread.Is this one of those "whining because everything isn't candyland" kind of things? not particularly, no. it's more a comment on the overreactions that some people have had than anything else. we aren't going to get the worst possible outcome on something, just like we won't be getting the best possible outcome because neither one ever happens. acting like we're getting either one is just silly and it causes problems. that's really it. Master Wetboy of the Obsidian Order of Eternity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evdk Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) Not only overreaction theater, but lack of priorities theater. If Obs listens to the people on this board the game will end up all the worse for it. Thankfully, the Obs designers have vision and integrity - they won't cave to any of the awful ideas thrown forth here. It's become a cesspool of Battle.net proportions in record time. I can't quite see how the game could end up being worse than with cooldowns. And if they do not want their forums to resemble battle net, they should stop filching design ideas from WoW. Edited October 2, 2012 by evdk 4 Say no to popamole! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Living One Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 If Obs listens to the people on this board the game will end up all the worse for it. Thankfully, the Obs designers have vision and integrity - they won't cave to any of the awful ideas thrown forth here Oh,I'm sure they'll listen.To the romance creeps.Also,yes sure they really are showing their integrity.For realsies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uomoz Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Well when the forum is filled with people from the RPGcodex, what'd ya expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evdk Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Well when the forum is filled with people from the RPGcodex, what'd ya expect? Good design advice. 5 Say no to popamole! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlux Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) VANCIAN STRONG! REMOVE SAWYER FROM PREMISES! Vancian sucks. Remove evdk from premises. Well when the forum is filled with people from the RPGcodex, what'd ya expect? Good design advice. Funny that none of them work in the gaming industry then. Edited October 2, 2012 by dlux 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blarghagh Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 It's become a cesspool of Battle.net proportions they should stop filching design ideas from WoW. Oh the enormous irony. I am just giddy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidesco Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 With the announcement of crafting, last day's pledges doubled the amount of the previous day. So maybe people who post in forums are a weird, very minor cross section of the population interested in the project. Maybe. 2 "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirottu Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Level scaling? Enjoy your Oblivion with guns! 1 This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrashMan Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Couldn't be arsed to read the whole thread.Is this one of those "whining because everything isn't candyland" kind of things? not particularly, no. it's more a comment on the overreactions that some people have had than anything else. we aren't going to get the worst possible outcome on something, just like we won't be getting the best possible outcome because neither one ever happens. acting like we're getting either one is just silly and it causes problems. that's really it. Hell, I'd be happy if it's just BG2-like with fancier graphics. as cyberarmy said: That thing usually hard to understand is, it's impossible to please everyone and if anyone try that they fail pretty hard. We all know it. It's impossible to please everyone. So each of us hopes we will be inside the group that will be pleased. Cest la vie' * YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madzookeeper Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 Alright OP, I was mean to you, it's just that I can't stand when people are talking out of their asses and I'm a little tiny bit sorry if I hurt your feelings in the process with some of my remarks. This is not the Bioware knitting circle so I assumed people are less thin-skinned. But look at it from the bright side; the next time you talk out of your ass and someone says something mean to you, it won't hurt as much as the previous times and you won't feel the need to open an "I'm butthurt" thread. :D uh... huh... if you think your insults are why i opened this then you're a bit full of yourself on that account, had nothing to do with this, and i don't care i you believe that or not. what it did have to do with was the sky is falling mentality that the OP and most of the rest of the comments in the thread were fostering. making assumptions like it was going to be the worst thing ever (because that's always what happens IRL...) don't accomplish anything. No, I wasn't assuming it will be "the worst thing ever". It's not like level scaling is something new, right? The only other swords&sorcery(&technology) game mechanics and combat ruleset they designed was Arcanum. I don't think Arcanum shined in this aspect. So I do have my doubts and these doubts have just become bigger when they confirmed they'll use level scaling for (some) encounters. It's really simple. I'm not going to lose sleep over it or anything. I just stated it blatantly without ifs and apologies. part of the problem with arcanum was that the publishers literally demanded that they include the real time with it because that was they way everything was going at the time. the game itself was designed to be turn based, in which form it is highly enjoyable. but the realtime part of it is so tacked on that it's barely functional. i do have one question for you though. considering the quote does specifically say that level scaling is only one of the systems that they're using, and it also specifically says that it is going to have static areas, why were you so upset with having just part of the game level scaled when they already said it was going to have static areas as well? why did you assume that it was going to take over every aspect of the game, which was what i got from what you posted. maybe i misread, which i'm sure you'll let me know if i did. not going to reply to what you say about it, just want to know. Master Wetboy of the Obsidian Order of Eternity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evdk Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) It's become a cesspool of Battle.net proportions they should stop filching design ideas from WoW. Oh the enormous irony. I am just giddy! You lost me there, chief. Edited October 2, 2012 by evdk Say no to popamole! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 With the announcement of crafting, last day's pledges double the amount of the previous day. So maybe people who post in forums are a weird, very minor cross section of the population interested in the project. Maybe. I tried to do the math with one of the popular threads (Romance tread #712 RIP) and arrived at the streamlined number 0.6% (backers participating in the poll). Assuming that this was the approx. max participation level of backers vs. active posters (being generous because it takes no commitment to vote in a poll), I found it encouraging that the 94.6% other backers had the sense to not hang out on video game forums. 1 “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blarghagh Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) It's become a cesspool of Battle.net proportions they should stop filching design ideas from WoW. Oh the enormous irony. I am just giddy! You lost me there, chief. "Stop stealing ideas from WoW" was by far the top complaint on the battle.net Diablo 3 forums during its development. If I recall correctly, StarCraft 2 too. Edited October 2, 2012 by TrueNeutral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troller Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Well people at 4chan /v/ are overreacting about gay inclusiveness, and people at the codex are overreacting about cooldowns and level scaling. Just what I got from the forums I'm lurking... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madzookeeper Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 @ gorth but hanging out on forums is fun! Master Wetboy of the Obsidian Order of Eternity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evdk Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 VANCIAN STRONG! REMOVE SAWYER FROM PREMISES! Vancian sucks. Remove evdk from premises. Well when the forum is filled with people from the RPGcodex, what'd ya expect? Good design advice. Funny that none of them work in the gaming industry then. People like Todd are proof enough that working in the game industry has nothing to do with having sensible design ideas. 5 Say no to popamole! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valorian Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Alright OP, I was mean to you, it's just that I can't stand when people are talking out of their asses and I'm a little tiny bit sorry if I hurt your feelings in the process with some of my remarks. This is not the Bioware knitting circle so I assumed people are less thin-skinned. But look at it from the bright side; the next time you talk out of your ass and someone says something mean to you, it won't hurt as much as the previous times and you won't feel the need to open an "I'm butthurt" thread. :D uh... huh... if you think your insults are why i opened this then you're a bit full of yourself on that account, had nothing to do with this, and i don't care i you believe that or not. what it did have to do with was the sky is falling mentality that the OP and most of the rest of the comments in the thread were fostering. making assumptions like it was going to be the worst thing ever (because that's always what happens IRL...) don't accomplish anything. No, I wasn't assuming it will be "the worst thing ever". It's not like level scaling is something new, right? The only other swords&sorcery(&technology) game mechanics and combat ruleset they designed was Arcanum. I don't think Arcanum shined in this aspect. So I do have my doubts and these doubts have just become bigger when they confirmed they'll use level scaling for (some) encounters. It's really simple. I'm not going to lose sleep over it or anything. I just stated it blatantly without ifs and apologies. part of the problem with arcanum was that the publishers literally demanded that they include the real time with it because that was they way everything was going at the time. the game itself was designed to be turn based, in which form it is highly enjoyable. but the realtime part of it is so tacked on that it's barely functional. i do have one question for you though. considering the quote does specifically say that level scaling is only one of the systems that they're using, and it also specifically says that it is going to have static areas, why were you so upset with having just part of the game level scaled when they already said it was going to have static areas as well? why did you assume that it was going to take over every aspect of the game, which was what i got from what you posted. maybe i misread, which i'm sure you'll let me know if i did. not going to reply to what you say about it, just want to know. Because I don't want parts of the game being a ****ty level scaled experience. I believe it's really simple to comprehend. Why are you upset about me not wanting to deal with level scaling in parts of the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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