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More game content vs release date  

152 members have voted

  1. 1. Is postponing the releasedate a good idea to allow Obsidan to include more game content

    • Yes! I wan't more content and could wait for it
      85
    • No.
      36
    • No opinion
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Take time if need be to finish making the game. To meet a dateline is not as important as making sure the story shipped out is the one you want to tell. Now that they are not under a publisher timeline, they should take the time and if need be make time to refine it enough that they do not let their backers down. That to me is more important: It will be your supporters that will determine the fortunes of your next game. Do not let down your supporters, take all the time you need, not more though :p

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A related thread that ties in an actual stretch amount:

 

http://forums.obsidi...e-refined-game/

 

I personally think Obsidian should have just left it at "2014" instead of the month; a month or two can significantly impact a project management timeline.

 

I'm not in favor of DLC games. By their very nature, a company isn't pressured to include as much as possible--as much as 'promised' or 'intended'--on release. "Oh, we'll just patch it later. Oh, we don't have time to test this region so let's make it DLC." I honestly feel the mentality has gotten out of hand (yes, abused) and has led to the current "live beta testing" state for quite a lot of different things. I do not feel that a self-contained SP game harkening back to the old school IE CRPGs should have DLC at all, which is more of an MMO/Steam/whatever thing to me.

 

(Note: I'm using 'DLC' in opposition to 'expansion' as a matter of scope and intent, but I think the definitions are fuzzy around the edges. It's entirely possible to have a 'DLC' so large and extending the storyline that it ends up being an 'expansion' by old school definition. And bug patches aren't 'DLC' at all, so I'd be fine with a bug patch later if it's not ridiculous.)

Edited by Ieo

The KS Collector's Edition does not include the Collector's Book.

Which game hook brought you to Project Eternity and interests you the most?

PE will not have co-op/multiplayer, console, or tablet support (sources): [0] [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]

Write your own romance mods because there won't be any in PE.

"But what is an evil? Is it like water or like a hedgehog or night or lumpy?" -(Digger)

"Most o' you wanderers are but a quarter moon away from lunacy at the best o' times." -Alvanhendar (Baldur's Gate 1)

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I'm sure they've said somewhere in an interview that they have said that the actual dev time will change depending on how much money they end up with, the more money they get the longer it will take as they will be able to do more things or so they have said. They'll determine how long they take when they get the final tally of how much money they got.

 

Their constraint is money, not time. There are far more people at Obsidian than there will working on Project Eternity. Obsidian has already said that the final size of the development team will be determined after the Kickstarter is over. Thus, there is no real reason to delay the game.

 

In the same interview I read they stated that there comes a point that throwing more people at something has depreciating value and may even cause more problems. Too many cooks in the kitchen so to speak. I'll try and dig out his interview I recall and stick up a link.

"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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There's a difference, there really is.

 

A DLC is a typically small change to a game whether it be; map packs, cosmetics, a new character, a new quest line, etc etc. They usually add anywhere between 0-5 hours of game play and typically cost around 10 dollars.

 

An expansion is what they use to do in the good old days of rpgs. It's something that changes the game drastically adding in several things at once. All new characters, levels, quests, items, areas, all of it in one big boxed up game. It cost around 20-40 dollars and consists of 10-20 hours of gameplay typically. Depending on the game of course. Point being an expansion is equal to about 20 separate DLC's, but you get more bang for your buck. You're not individually buying bits and pieces of a game. Not to mention DLC's are typically downloadable only, an expansion has a box. I like boxes.

 

You attach meaning to 'DLC' that it doesn't have. Downloadable expansion is DLC. Downloadable leprechaun portrait for Imoen is DLC. Yes, I prefer the former, too, and maybe I should've been more specific about that.

 

I don't really like boxes. They're nice and all, but I have little enough shelf space as it is. I threw away all my expansion boxes from the good old days a long time ago. :)

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Okay, I found an interview by Tim Cain that seems to contradict what I said earlier:

 

MAC: With these additional stretch goals being added every time a new goal is reached, how will this extra content alter your development schedule?

TC: We are not planning to change the ship date. Instead, we plan to add additional personnel to achieve those new goals. We are also planning our goals to spread the workload to different departments. Some features need a lot of additional code, other needs more artwork. We tried to avoid a set of stretch goals that would tax one department too much.

 

Link here

 

I'm certain there was another interview where someone said differently, I'll keep looking but it appears I may have been hallucinating...

"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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And I have found it!!!

 

Nick K: “When it comes to the stretch goals, I imagine if you hit over 2 million you’ll push them even further. Do you think it may impact the release date?”

Feargus Urquhart: “As we have more funding, it will probably take more time to make the game. But it’s not a ratio. It’s not like, if we get twice the money, it’ll take twice the time; because we will put more people on the project. But the time will be a bit squishier. We want to be careful that we are very serious about the money that we get and spend it wisely. We don’t want to go the other way and have twice the team if we have twice the money either.”

 

Link here.

 

This one is older than the other one, so maybe something may have changed or they are not both working from the same sheet maybe?

"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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There is no set release date and there is no publisher forcing them. The only real constraints are economical or, if they are engaged in other projects, arguably legal (since they have to pull people off some projects to deal with others - potentially).

 

Putting the release date later for the hell of it doesn't change anything. When the game is finished, the game is finished, and when they're out of dough, they're out of dough.

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There is no set release date and there is no publisher forcing them. The only real constraints are economical or, if they are engaged in other projects, arguably legal (since they have to pull people off some projects to deal with others - potentially).

 

Putting the release date later for the hell of it doesn't change anything. When the game is finished, the game is finished, and when they're out of dough, they're out of dough.

 

Except that there is an understood and explicit "release date" by virtue of placement on the Kickstarter page; while it's not a legal contractual agreement by any stretch, the fact that it's placed on the KS page is an implication that any backer can/"should" expect that release date.

 

I'm personally quite mellow about this, but I can see how the actual April 2014 may be a problem further down the line.

The KS Collector's Edition does not include the Collector's Book.

Which game hook brought you to Project Eternity and interests you the most?

PE will not have co-op/multiplayer, console, or tablet support (sources): [0] [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]

Write your own romance mods because there won't be any in PE.

"But what is an evil? Is it like water or like a hedgehog or night or lumpy?" -(Digger)

"Most o' you wanderers are but a quarter moon away from lunacy at the best o' times." -Alvanhendar (Baldur's Gate 1)

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Mark my words, it'll either be delayed or unfinished. I have no problems with waiting.

I'd like to see an Obsidian game that doesn't seem like I have to read a Let's Play of it just so I can see all the (important) cut content- I am looking at you, KOTOR 2.

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I think it's more important that they're allowed to patch the game. VtM: Bloodlines and Fallout: NV I think suffered from not having the resources or time to patch the game, the way Troika and Obsidian make games, they're always going to have more bugs than other developers, but other developers don't make as good games. I'd rather have longer term support than longer development time. Valve and Blizzard are really good at supporting their games, in part their success allows them that, but without pressure and control from console makers and publishers, I hope Obsidian can support the game after release better.

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Mark my words, it'll either be delayed or unfinished. I have no problems with waiting.

I'd like to see an Obsidian game that doesn't seem like I have to read a Let's Play of it just so I can see all the (important) cut content- I am looking at you, KOTOR 2.

Such... potential.

 

*cries*

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if they need more time i can wait, but if they can have it ready by april i dont see why postpone it for december.

The words freedom and liberty, are diminishing the true meaning of the abstract concept they try to explain. The true nature of freedom is such, that the human mind is unable to comprehend it, so we make a cage and name it freedom in order to give a tangible meaning to what we dont understand, just as our ancestors made gods like Thor or Zeus to explain thunder.

 

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What? You thought it was a quote from some well known wise guy from the past?

 

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We are hardcore role players... When we go to bed with a girl, we roll a D20 to see if we hit the target and a D6 to see how much penetration damage we did.

 

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Why is everybody so worried of release date when production has not even fully started yet? It seems this same thing comes up eventually in every thread. I have no opinion on this. It's planned release date, which every game has from the start and in 99% of projects it will be pushed further at some point or another and they won't ask your permission. If you can't live with that you can already cancel your pledge.

 

They are hardened professionals and they know better than any of us how long this kind of game takes to develop and I'm sure they have no problem postponing release if they need more time. Just relax and wait for it.:D

 

You have to remember that this is a different sort of undertaking. Obsidian isn't answering to large investors or a publisher, they are answering directly to us, the fans and supporters. They would have to comfort investors if they pushed back release, perhaps they wouldn't ask permission but they would have to jump through hoops for them. Now we are all in that position of investor. I consider these threads, and their frequency, to be both a message to other funders and to Obsidian that we want the best game they can make in whatever timescale. Because we are the investors in this case, we do have to make sure Obsidian *knows* our collective will and what we will endure before our faith in the project is broken. I just hope they will be willing to hold another fundraiser if they do run out of money and that the community will endure it.

No, we are not in position of investor. I think that's far too common misunderstanding with Kickstarter. After fundraiser ends they could start making modern infantry FPS with zombies and aliens in it and we could do nothing about it. That might not be very smart from them, but that doesn't change the fact they could. We're just foolish donors who gave away our money only for a promise of final product which might still be years away.

 

And please stop worrying of the money too. They promised us the game for 1.1 million and now they have almost doubled that goal and still 16 days to go. What makes you all think they are going to run out of money?! It's going to be Isometric old-school RPG, not some blockbuster state-of-the-art FPS with directX 23.5 graphics! (or at least I hope so, but how do we know ;D) If they can't make this happen with that amount of money then they clearly don't belong into this business.

Edited by Haerski

PlanescapeTorment-1.jpg

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*looks at topic*

 

Maybe Obsidian should postpone the release date until December 2023 so that PE is 10 times better than the best RPG ever created.

 

*chuckles*

 

But seriously, Feargus said that the game will be released when it is done and that will be probably be around April 2014.

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No, we are not in position of investor. I think that's far too common misunderstanding with Kickstarter. After fundraiser ends they could start making modern infantry FPS with zombies and aliens in it and we could do nothing about it. That might not be very smart from them, but that doesn't change the fact they could. We're just foolish donors who gave away our money only for a promise of final product which might still be years away.

 

And please stop worrying of the money too. They promised us the game for 1.1 million and now they have almost doubled that goal and still 16 days to go. What makes you all think they are going to run out of money?! It's going to be Isometric old-school RPG, not some blockbuster state-of-the-art FPS with directX 23.5 graphics! (or at least I hope so, but how do we know ;D) If they can't make this happen with that amount of money then they clearly don't belong into this business.

 

You're completely right, we are not actually investors. Obsidian doesn't have a contract with us or anyother such thing. They can do anything they want with the money we've pledged. But there is a reason that they're stressing accountablity to the fans in all the interviews. That's the only way this Kickstarter model works. If they take all this money and shut us out and release a game, sure we'll get that game, but it kills any chance of a showing for a sequel or expansion. The whole system only works if the fans have faith in the company. I really like the idea of crowdfunding games so that companies can make the games people are actually interested in. I don't see that working unless the community funding the game is given the same respect as an investor.

 

As far as how much is needed the make the game, I have no idea how much that costs. It was my impression it cost a lot. 2.2 mil is not how much I expected, but I'll stop worrying either way.

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1. You have no idea how long it takes OE to develop the game to which extend.

2. You have no idea how much money OE needs for the extended development time.

3. You have no idea of the relation between development time and the quality and size of the game.

 

 

Again: senseless thread..... :blink:

Edited by LordCrash
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I think it would make more sense if deadline push-back were included in the higher stretch goals themselves. But that's mainly assuming the staff remains static; it's entirely possible and may be necessary to hire more devs to cover certain additional content to cut the linear timeline feature creep. The real trick is all the dialogic/text content--Avellone would end up being the bottleneck regardless. :p No pressure.

The KS Collector's Edition does not include the Collector's Book.

Which game hook brought you to Project Eternity and interests you the most?

PE will not have co-op/multiplayer, console, or tablet support (sources): [0] [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]

Write your own romance mods because there won't be any in PE.

"But what is an evil? Is it like water or like a hedgehog or night or lumpy?" -(Digger)

"Most o' you wanderers are but a quarter moon away from lunacy at the best o' times." -Alvanhendar (Baldur's Gate 1)

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You're completely right, we are not actually investors. Obsidian doesn't have a contract with us or anyother such thing. They can do anything they want with the money we've pledged. But there is a reason that they're stressing accountablity to the fans in all the interviews. That's the only way this Kickstarter model works. If they take all this money and shut us out and release a game, sure we'll get that game, but it kills any chance of a showing for a sequel or expansion. The whole system only works if the fans have faith in the company. I really like the idea of crowdfunding games so that companies can make the games people are actually interested in. I don't see that working unless the community funding the game is given the same respect as an investor

You are right, but that works only to certain point. They can't just put polls out of every aspect of the game and hope the game turns out ok. They need to have guts to make their own design choices if they know they are right even if community protests. I agree they need to have much deeper community interaction with this one, keep us updated and listen to ideas and criticism, but not let us turn over everything they are doing with this game. They are the divine designer geniuses who should make this game, not us.

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I'm flexible for a release date but it's misplaced to talk about missing the planned release date so early in the development.

 

Also more time means more money which is not an option in the kick starter funding thing...

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