Would you want a new Infinity Engine game?

[Dianjabla]

Don't get me wrong, I can't wait for Project Eternity to be released, and there's a lot of interesting suggestions on the forums on how to make it... but if it was just using the Infinity Engine and gave you a story like PST and the epicness of BG, would you buy it?

 

Edit: Treat it as a purely hypothetical question as it's obviously not actually going to happen and I'm not asking for it to. I'm just wondering if anyone else would be happy with just that?

Edited September 26, 2012 by Dianjabla

[max8472]

Without dubt, yes.

[Tuco Benedicto]

While I'm not in the nostalgic delusion that "2D is always better at anything ever!1!" I would gladly buy any (good) game based on a 2D engine similar in every aspect to the old Infinity Engine. Except that I would expect support for higher resolutions these days. You know, 1980x1200 and so on.

[Majek]

No, hell no.

[Sensuki]

Well the thing is, the engine is owned by BioWare.

 

There's not really much point using it if you can use another engine and make a very similar game without some of the shortcomings (lack of math in the code or whatever, various other things).

[WorstUsernameEver]

Mmmh... I want developers to follow in the same spirit, not to keep making the same exact design choice, keep using outdated tech, etc. That said, if a quickie on the IE with 2nd ed. ruleset was churned out, and priced accordingly, I'd probably at least be a little interested.

[Humanoid]

Take the reverse of this thinking and think big! Engineer the Eternity engine to be the Infinity engine, or indeed the SCUMM engine, of the 10s and TAKE OVER THE WORLD. Ensure it's easily extensible and adapted to a variety of scenarios and then you could have comparatively tiny teams consisting of writers and scripters producing high-quality content in parallel. Steampunk, sure. Sci-fi, of course. If rights permit, maybe even licence it out to third parties.

[Adhin]

I love the infinity engine games to death. Getting all the EE stuff cause.. its more BG in wide screen? That all said a game in that vein now and days like they're making I pray its a mix of 3D models on a more 2D background meshup type thing. ToEE I think did a good job with mixing the two and something better updated for todays stuff could be amazing. I ended up answering no to it but, ultimately I 'would' buy a game in an infinity engine (updated heavily), just not what I want ultimately.

 

Personally I think the 3D + 2D gives the best overall look for this kind of game as with a forced, static isometric view you can do more with the backgrounds that way and as long as you can mix the 3D models to mesh properly with that 2D background it can allow easier customization of characters and ultimately free up a lot of work on the developers side. Paper dolls, from my little experience with them (15+ years modding infinity/D2 and other games)... they be a bitch to deal with man. You can just 'do' more with a 3D model as far a player customization is concerned, visually.

[Jarmo]

As it happens, I (and probably many others) have the possibility of playing a totally new IE game.

 

In my case it's Arcanum. I've begun it once, but couldn't get over the mental adjustment phase getting of into the mood.

Begun again, but I seem to be trailing off.

 

Played Torment for the first time a year ago (or few years? when it came to gog anyway), took effort but was rewarding.

Hated the combat all the way through.

 

I'd played BG2 maybe 5 years ago, but had given up on BG1. Finished the first part last year, almost completely not fun.

 

Actually I played none of the ie games back then, started on them around 2005 or thereabouts.

Of the "classics" Fallout 2 is the only one I still enjoy playing, Temple of Elemental Evil as well but that's not ie.

 

No. I want more modern stuff. At least a bit more. NWN was great 5 yrs ago, but was spoiled a little by NWN2.

[Tuco Benedicto]

No. I want more modern stuff. At least a bit more. NWN was great 5 yrs ago, but was spoiled a little by NWN2.

WUT? As I said I'm not really into nostalgy for the sake of it, but both NWN and NWN2 look, feel and control far worse than any IE title.

[yulva]

Haven't yet seen an engine that's as beautiful and comfortable as IE. But if IE were to be used again in any game, high resolution is a must.

[Gorth]

I think the tool set and workflow of the IE is so obsolete now that you can get similar look and feel on a different engine at lower cost. Not to mention that the pre-rendered sprite animations looks really old now (probably the one part the aged least gracefully). Infinity Engine was after all written with a completely different type of game in mind (it was intended for RTS games when it got "repurposed" for CRPG type games).

[Jarmo]

No. I want more modern stuff. At least a bit more. NWN was great 5 yrs ago, but was spoiled a little by NWN2.

WUT? As I said I'm not really into nostalgy for the sake of it, but both NWN and NWN2 look, feel and control far worse than any IE title.

 

Still shots of IE games can still look quite stunning, much better than similar shots from NWN, that is a given.

But yeah, I'm much more allergic to jerky movement than blocky graphics.

 

NWN and ToEE characters have nice fluid moves even if they look pretty horrible close up.

NWN 2 spoiled things for me pretty badly, suddenly NWN looked even blockier, but NWN2 had worse gameplay (but better plot).

 

ToEE is the only one of the old games I can still play just for the looks and fun of playing.

[Adhin]

Heh yeah but thank jebus it got re-purposed. We may never of gotten the formation based, paused real time combat you had with BG. Far as im concerned that changed everything with cRPG's. Granted the way the actual sprites and paper dolls work is a pain in the butt. Im glad they're going with 2D background, 3D models for other stuff. It's the best of both worlds in my opinion.. stuff you can do with that's pretty crazy and allows the game to look great on a much wider variaty of systems with little bleed in quality compared to purely 3D games.

 

Cause, ultimately, that 2D background will always look the way it does. It's a beautiful scene regardless of your settings.

[Tuco Benedicto]

Still shots of IE games can still look quite stunning, much better than similar shots from NWN, that is a given.

But yeah, I'm much more allergic to jerky movement than blocky graphics.

 

NWN and ToEE characters have nice fluid moves even if they look pretty horrible close up.

NWN 2 spoiled things for me pretty badly, suddenly NWN looked even blockier, but NWN2 had worse gameplay (but better plot).

 

ToEE is the only one of the old games I can still play just for the looks and fun of playing.

Yeah, I don't agree with anything you are saying.

Beside being generally prettier, I'm exactly saying that IE games to me control far better than NWN 1 and 2 ever did. And I'm talking specifically about the "feeling" giving commands to you men, moving them around, using the UI, etc. Looking "blockier" is irrelevant, as that's simply up to the low resolution used.

Also, ToEE in these terms is at least on par with IE games (despise some needlessly clumsy element of the user interface) and generally speaking looks at least as pretty (AND once again better than NWN 1 and 2). It also feels way more close to IE games in pretty every aspect, so I have no idea why you are mixing it with NWN 1 and 2.

 

It'salso funny for me how you claim that NWN 2 spoiled you over NWN 1, as I think NWN2 is by far the most clumsy out of the two in terms of camera control, smoothness, responsiveness, etc.

The only things that NWN2 adds over those other games named here are more complex 3D graphics. But it does it with such a lifeless and bland art style (sorry Obsidian, but that's how i see it) that makes it paradoxically the most modern and yet the ugliest of the bunch.

 

On the other hand, a modern game that despise its MANY, MANY flaws nailed that smooth "Infinity Engine" feel in terms of controls, camera, etc. was Dragon Age: Origins with the isometric overview.

Of course, that came at the price of a dull ruleset, dull quests, boring dungeon design and non-existent monster and encounter designs. And that's because life is a bitch and we aren't allowed to be entirely happy with something.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Tuco Benedicto

[Piccolo]

I would rather have what Project Eternity is going to (hopefully) be - an RPG that takes the best aspects of all the IE games, changes the flaws, takes advantage of improved technology without sacrificing the charm and feel of the IE games, and ultimately tries to be one step better than all of them.

[Tigranes]

I'd rather they do what P:E does, but sure, a new IE game would also be good.

[Lohi]

I'm trying to get BG1/2 regoing again. Couldn't get BG1tutu to work and the BG1 CDs were so difficult to read that I'm hesitant to spend another two hours getting it to reinstall. (easytutu requires ToSC which I don't have)

 

Anyway was surprised by how small the visible screen was again in BG1. And in BG2 how hard it is to get used to the look, the characters in the first scene blend into the background. There's something to be said for slightly cartoonish characters that you can easily see, like Fallout 1&2.

 

What I'd like in BG2 is to zoom in and out. Higher rez is nice but it just means that the details are harder to see.

 

I also remember some of the stuff I really didn't like about the non-turn based combat. You lose so much control over all your party members, you pause the game but aren't sure if they have done their action yet or not, rely too much on the simplistic scripts, etc. Just takes getting used to again I guess.

[Jarmo]

Yeah, I don't agree with anything you are saying.

 

Doesn't really surprise me,

it's subjective and I'm often pretty much alone with my opinions.

So let me agree with some stuff you said instead.

 

Beside being generally prettier, I'm exactly saying that IE games to me control far better than NWN 1 and 2 ever did. And I'm talking specifically about the "feeling" giving commands to you men, moving them around, using the UI, etc. Looking "blockier" is irrelevant, as that's simply up to the low resolution used.

 

Looks are in the eye and so on, but the control is indeed far more precise in IE games. Not something I pay much attention to, though.

With blockier, I meant basically the low polygon world of NWN, it does look a bit better ib 1600x1200, unless you look close.

 

Also, ToEE in these terms is at least on par with IE games (despise some needlessly clumsy element of the user interface) and generally speaking looks at least as pretty (AND once again better than NWN 1 and 2). It also feels way more close to IE games in pretty every aspect, so I have no idea why you are mixing it with NWN 1 and 2.

 

In complete agreement here. ToEE is why I have high hopes for the looks of Project Eternity.

I'm mixing it with NWN (and not IE games) only because it's not IE based and it has 3D models (hence the fluid character movement).

 

 

It'salso funny for me how you claim that NWN 2 spoiled you over NWN 1, as I think NWN2 is by far the most clumsy out of the two in terms of camera control, smoothness, responsiveness, etc.

 

Again, that's what I meant. NWN felt and played better, but after NWN2 it's low polygon world felt even blockier.

 

On the other hand, a modern game that despise its MANY, MANY flaws nailed that smooth "Infinity Engine" feel in terms of controls, camera, etc. was Dragon Age: Origins with the isometric overview.

Of course, that came at the price of a dull ruleset, dull quests, boring dungeon design and non-existent monster and encounter designs. And that's because life is a bitch and we aren't allowed to be entirely happy with something.

 

Half agreement here. Looks and controls of DA:O were just about perfect for me.

Although I liked almost everything else about it as well. I'd have been thrilled to get more of the same goodness in expansions.

(Which is why I was so upset to see the expansions were just a hackfest and that DA2 tossed most of what was good in DA:O)

[ilhdr]

Other topics:

 

Why Arcanum isn't as good as Ultima VII, Fallout 2, or Baldur's Gate

 

Why Baldur's Gate isn't as good as Pool of Radiance, Ultima VII, or Fallout 2

 

Why Fallout 2 isn't as good as Bard's Tale, Pool of Radiance, or Ultima VII

 

Why Ultima VII isn't as good as Wizardry, Bard's Tale, or Pool of Radiance

 

Why Pool of Radiance isn't as good as Temple of Apshai, Wizardry, or Bard's Tale

 

Why Bard's Tale isn't as good as Temple of Apshai or Wizardry

 

Why Wizardry isn't as good as Temple of Apshai

 

Why Temple of Apshai isn't good

[Zeckul]

Updating the Infinity Engine is basically what Overhaul Games is doing with BG:EE. Just taking the old UI out and replacing it with something that scales to widescreen monitors gracefully took months. Updating a 14-year old code base designed for obsolete technology is a lot of effort for not a lot of results. That was still the approach of least friction for remaking BG1 and BG2, but for any new game you wouldn't want to do that. Even Overhaul Games won't use the updated IE for BG3. If you take the Infinity Engine and fix everything that's obsolete or badly designed about it, you'll basically have a completely new engine and you'd have been better off starting from scratch.

 

So, no, keeping old tech alive is a lot of wasted time.

[Nepenthe]

Sure, which is why I preordered BGEE.

[JeremyR]

No, because they aren't turn based, but that new fangled real time with pause stuff that I can't stand (which unfortunately P:E seems to be) If I wanted to play an action RPG, I'd play an action RPG.

[Tuco Benedicto]

No, because they aren't turn based, but that new fangled real time with pause stuff that I can't stand (which unfortunately P:E seems to be) If I wanted to play an action RPG, I'd play an action RPG.

Feel free to dislike it all you want, but using a "real time with pause" system doesn't turn a RPG into an "action RPG".

It's just a different approach for what still is a tactical combat system at its heart.

[Totottoro]

BG3? IWD3? Fallout 2D the third?? Oh my gee-golly-gosh yes!!

 

I would rather take 'em Infinity style than not at all

Edited September 27, 2012 by Totottoro